Kirk Cameron Christmas Movie - MERGE

[louisa05]

Based on the movie poster: Uhm, get "saved", or get whacked in the face by a former child star, with candy stick? :?

This. I was thinking "is Kirk Cameron going to beat me up with a candy cane? Is that how Christmas gets saved?" :lol:

I do think Christmas has been hijacked. By fundagelicals who want to turn it into a big political whine fest every year by pretending that it is not adequately celebrated in a mainstream culture where radio stations play 24 hour Christmas music starting as early as October and stores are full of Christmas decor as early as September in some cases.

Christmas will be "saved" the year I do not have to read 80,000 Facebook posts and memes about how a store clerk not saying "merry Christmas" is destroying someone's (extremely fragile) faith in Christianity.

[Odd1Out]

Looks like the theme is "it's OK to love the commercialism and gifts and explosion of green and red, and still have Jesus!"

If "it's all about Jesus," that just gives those of us who don't want any signs of Christmas in public schools or creches at the town hall a leg to stand on. Thanks, Kirk! :D

The poster is . . . well, I'll just let it speak for itself:

And a screen cap from the preview:

sure does look like they put scenes from the 1977 mini-series Jesus of Nazareth in this piece of shit. Or maybe they just found someone who looks that much like Olivia Hussey.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075520/?ref_=nv_sr_1

Kirk's handlers have not yet put this on his IMDb listing -- c'mon, Kirk, aren't you proud of it?

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0131647/?ref_=rvi_nm

The Hollywood Reporter's very polite article:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/k ... ing-728515

Why don't you want any sign of Christmas in public schools? Whether you celebrate as a religious holiday or not or don't even celebrate in your home, why can it not be a fun holiday that is a tradition in our country? Why can't it be celebrated in the schools?

[RandomTrivia]

Looks like the theme is "it's OK to love the commercialism and gifts and explosion of green and red, and still have Jesus!"

If "it's all about Jesus," that just gives those of us who don't want any signs of Christmas in public schools or creches at the town hall a leg to stand on. Thanks, Kirk! :D

The poster is . . . well, I'll just let it speak for itself:

Well, the poster looks like a parody of itself, definitely. I get a hint of Sharknado from it, too.

[samurai_sarah]

This. I was thinking "is Kirk Cameron going to beat me up with a candy cane? Is that how Christmas gets saved?" :lol:

I do think Christmas has been hijacked. By fundagelicals who want to turn it into a big political whine fest every year by pretending that it is not adequately celebrated in a mainstream culture where radio stations play 24 hour Christmas music starting as early as October and stores are full of Christmas decor as early as September in some cases.

Christmas will be "saved" the year I do not have to read 80,000 Facebook posts and memes about how a store clerk not saying "merry Christmas" is destroying someone's (extremely fragile) faith in Christianity.

I agree with you. Plus, it's the whole "you're a heathen, because you aren't thinking about Christ" FB post thing, which annoys me. In my part of the world, "Baby Jesus" delivers presents on the 24th, in the evening. The Christian connotations are difficult to miss.

[doggie]

I think there should be laws to keep crazy Christians from bearing candy canes.

[louisa05]

Why don't you want any sign of Christmas in public schools? Whether you celebrate as a religious holiday or not or don't even celebrate in your home, why can it not be a fun holiday that is a tradition in our country? Why can't it be celebrated in the schools?

I am not the person you asked, but here is my thought on the matter.

In a diverse setting, it is problematic for there to be a lot of Christmas celebration in a public school. I never really got this until I attended a round table discussion for Christians, Muslims and Jews once. The Muslim woman and the Jewish couple in my group both said that their problem with it was not on their own behalf but on account of it being very difficult for children when all the hype and excitement is going on in the school about Santa and presents and what not. As adults, they could shrug their shoulders but having to explain to their children every year that they could not participate and Santa doesn't come to their house was tiring and hard on the kids. It is not fun to be left out when you are a child. In a culture where we are more and more aware of the pain that being bullied can cause, we need to think twice before intentionally leaving out some children.

[Grimalkin]

But will the Duggars be watching?

[DGayle]

it could be, right? :lol: but nope it's really this bad in Christian entertainment. They've become their own parody, like what Micah Murray said.

source: redemptionpictures.com/2014/03/24/i-dont-know-if-im-a-christian-anymore/

They're the Asylum of the Christian world. :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Asylum

They've brought us such craptacular productins as Mega Shark Versus Crocosaurus, The Da Vinci Treasure, 2-Headed Shark Attack, and Fifty Shade of Grey. Okay, so I tacked that last one on, but it's fitting.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I am not the person you asked, but here is my thought on the matter.

In a diverse setting, it is problematic for there to be a lot of Christmas celebration in a public school. I never really got this until I attended a round table discussion for Christians, Muslims and Jews once. The Muslim woman and the Jewish couple in my group both said that their problem with it was not on their own behalf but on account of it being very difficult for children when all the hype and excitement is going on in the school about Santa and presents and what not. As adults, they could shrug their shoulders but having to explain to their children every year that they could not participate and Santa doesn't come to their house was tiring and hard on the kids. It is not fun to be left out when you are a child. In a culture where we are more and more aware of the pain that being bullied can cause, we need to think twice before intentionally leaving out some children.

Yes, that.

Celebrate everything, or nothing, if you are dealing with a public school. While you're at it, remember that contrary to popular belief, December is NOT the Universal Holiday Season, and the big celebrations of other religions should be mentioned when they actually occur. My SIL, for example, tells me about Diwali celebrations at her school. Would fundies be okay with kids learning about Lord Ganesh?

I was the only Jewish kid in the class until we moved when I was 9. I'll admit that I liked the visit to the Christmas display at a local garden center, and I sang in the choir, but it was always very clear that this was not my holiday. I remember my parents telling me not to tell the other kids that Santa wasn't real, and having teachers panic at the last minute to substitute a non-Christmas craft for me. We moved to a more Jewish area when I was 9, and I was amazed that I didn't have to stick out or explain basic stuff to the teachers anymore.

While secular Christians can see Christmas as something that is largely secular for them, it's just not that way for Jews. We may be the only ones who believe that Jesus is the reason for the season - which is why we stay away from even the lights and trees and big dinner. This is what we do on Dec. 25:

When something is celebrated in the school, it's a symbol. Celebrating the holiday of only one religion makes it seem like that is the "normal" or standard religion, and that sends a message to kids from minority religions that they somehow deviate from the real or official religion.

[MistofRain752]

Christmas has become a very big holiday in Japan and I have heard also in China. Here is how Japan celebrates

[JHeathen]

Yes, that.

Celebrate everything, or nothing, if you are dealing with a public school. While you're at it, remember that contrary to popular belief, December is NOT the Universal Holiday Season, and the big celebrations of other religions should be mentioned when they actually occur. My SIL, for example, tells me about Diwali celebrations at her school. Would fundies be okay with kids learning about Lord Ganesh?

I was the only Jewish kid in the class until we moved when I was 9. I'll admit that I liked the visit to the Christmas display at a local garden center, and I sang in the choir, but it was always very clear that this was not my holiday. I remember my parents telling me not to tell the other kids that Santa wasn't real, and having teachers panic at the last minute to substitute a non-Christmas craft for me. We moved to a more Jewish area when I was 9, and I was amazed that I didn't have to stick out or explain basic stuff to the teachers anymore.

While secular Christians can see Christmas as something that is largely secular for them, it's just not that way for Jews. We may be the only ones who believe that Jesus is the reason for the season - which is why we stay away from even the lights and trees and big dinner. This is what we do on Dec. 25:

When something is celebrated in the school, it's a symbol. Celebrating the holiday of only one religion makes it seem like that is the "normal" or standard religion, and that sends a message to kids from minority religions that they somehow deviate from the real or official religion.

Right; celebrating in school is an endorsement of religion. I would prefer that schools remain completely away from anything religious whatsoever. Just teach my kids and I'll handle the indoctrination, or lack thereof. Obviously I know that's not gonna happen, but completely secular schools and government would be my dream.

[Mama Mia]

Yes, that.

Celebrate everything, or nothing, if you are dealing with a public school. While you're at it, remember that contrary to popular belief, December is NOT the Universal Holiday Season, and the big celebrations of other religions should be mentioned when they actually occur. My SIL, for example, tells me about Diwali celebrations at her school. Would fundies be okay with kids learning about Lord Ganesh?

I was the only Jewish kid in the class until we moved when I was 9. I'll admit that I liked the visit to the Christmas display at a local garden center, and I sang in the choir, but it was always very clear that this was not my holiday. I remember my parents telling me not to tell the other kids that Santa wasn't real, and having teachers panic at the last minute to substitute a non-Christmas craft for me. We moved to a more Jewish area when I was 9, and I was amazed that I didn't have to stick out or explain basic stuff to the teachers anymore.

While secular Christians can see Christmas as something that is largely secular for them, it's just not that way for Jews. We may be the only ones who believe that Jesus is the reason for the season - which is why we stay away from even the lights and trees and big dinner. This is what we do on Dec. 25:

When something is celebrated in the school, it's a symbol. Celebrating the holiday of only one religion makes it seem like that is the "normal" or standard religion, and that sends a message to kids from minority religions that they somehow deviate from the real or official religion.

But don't most public schools do some sort of basic run down / cultural celebration of any major holidays that they have reason to believe are represented by students in their classrooms? And often ones that aren't? That's what I recall, although in the last few years, since the testing became so important, it seems like they don't do much celebrating of anything- but that appears to be due to time constraints more than anything. And as far as the Believing in Santa thing-- except for kindergarten and possibly first grade it seems like you'd have at least half the kids who have outgrown Santa anyway, and there are lots of families who don't have Santa as a big thing, or at all. In any case.

[2xx1xy1JD]

But don't most public schools do some sort of basic run down / cultural celebration of any major holidays that they have reason to believe are represented by students in their classrooms? And often ones that aren't? That's what I recall, although in the last few years, since the testing became so important, it seems like they don't do much celebrating of anything- but that appears to be due to time constraints more than anything. And as far as the Believing in Santa thing-- except for kindergarten and possibly first grade it seems like you'd have at least half the kids who have outgrown Santa anyway, and there are lots of families who don't have Santa as a big thing, or at all. In any case.

My only-Jewish-kid-in-class experiences were in the 1970s. Things have changed. I remember singing actual Christmas carols and saying the Lord's Prayer every morning, and that doesn't happen anymore. Both Toronto and the surrounding areas have become far more multicultural, so there is far more awareness of other holidays.

[Firiel]

Well, the poster looks like a parody of itself, definitely. I get a hint of Sharknado from it, too.

BEST THING EVER:

Someone is writing and producing the movie as a parody, but Poe's Law drew Kirk Cameron in and now they are milking his presence for all its worth.

The movie will be released and the reaction will be a 50/50 mix of "What a brilliant parody of Christian culture!" and "What a great defense of Christmas and Christianity!"

[RachelB]

The character is named Christian. Really.

Not just Christian, but Christian White.

Someone on another forum I frequent pointed out that is probably a riff on Christian Grey (of 50 Shades), and I nearly fell of my chair laughing.

This (along with that poster!) makes me think there are some people on the writing and production team who are having a joke at Kirk's expense. I am not going to complain.

[RandomTrivia]

Just occurred to me: The poster says "Kirk Cameron's Saving Christmas" - is that a contraction (so "Kirk Cameron is saving Christmas") or possessive (it's Kirk's movie)?? The first would be a clue to Kirk's inflated ego, although claiming a whole movie wouldn't be far behind, egotistically.

[salex]

Christmas has been hijacked. Global warming has been hijacked. Stem cell research has been hijacked. All by Fox News and the far right to entertain their base and keep them fired up and indignant.

Personally, I think Christianity has been highjacked. The old statement that "bad money drives out good" well, I think that has happened in the last 40 years in religion. Between the Name it and Claim it guys, the Patriarchs, the keeping up with Islam Fundamentalists in the holier than thou wars and the knee jerk reaction to relatively rapid change. Christianity has become as much a weapon as anything. IT is far easier to get people to vote for God the to keep the Koch brothers unregulated.

[browncoatslytherin]

i was pretty out-christmased at 17 when i was a holiday season temp at a department store. i even get flashbacks when i hear certain christmas songs. *shudder*

these days, i prefer to celebrate yule with close family and friends. it's close enough to christmas that my christian friends and family can have a nice holiday time with me. plus, i always get christmas day off of work, so it's like a bonus holiday of sorts for me lol.

a little more on subject, i have been chastized before when saying "happy holidays" instead of "merry christmas", to which i reply with something along the lines of, "i don't celebrate christmas, i celebrate the pagan holiday of yule. would you rather i say 'happy yule' instead?" they usually shut up pretty quick. :P

[Firiel]

I used to be a bit of a Christmas Scrooge, and then I started dating my boyfriend.

The guy is usually a bit of a Scrooge in general (she says lovingly), but he just goes NUTS over Christmas (but not as much as Halloween!). Like, he gets so happy even for the most commercial, useless crap and he's all about decorations (he prefers classy, but he'll accept tacky!) and themed cookies and all that junk.

I just love seeing him so ridiculously excited about random crap that it rubs off on me!

[feministxtian]

I don't celebrate Christmas for a lot of reasons...mainly that there is no good evidence that Christ was born on 12/25. The description of the scene points to some earlier part of the year, as shepherds would not be out with the flocks in winter in Jerusalem and environs. It gets pretty dang cold. And...throughout the rest of the New Testament there is no record of celebrating anything other than the resurrection.

So the idea of "keeping Christ in Christmas" is a very foreign concept to me. It took me a long time to get to this point of view and I'm comfortable with it. I get a lot of shit from other Christians about it but I don't really care.

[formergothardite]

I don't celebrate Christmas for a lot of reasons...mainly that there is no good evidence that Christ was born on 12/25. The description of the scene points to some earlier part of the year, as shepherds would not be out with the flocks in winter in Jerusalem and environs. It gets pretty dang cold. And...throughout the rest of the New Testament there is no record of celebrating anything other than the resurrection.

So the idea of "keeping Christ in Christmas" is a very foreign concept to me. It took me a long time to get to this point of view and I'm comfortable with it. I get a lot of shit from other Christians about it but I don't really care.

You just need to sit in the car with Kirk Cameron and he will have you diving into a pile of Christmas presents like a drunk college student in no time. :roll:

I for real cannot believe that the message of this movie appears to be "Buy more stuff, it's what Christmas is all about."

[browncoatslytherin]

I don't celebrate Christmas for a lot of reasons...mainly that there is no good evidence that Christ was born on 12/25. The description of the scene points to some earlier part of the year, as shepherds would not be out with the flocks in winter in Jerusalem and environs. It gets pretty dang cold. And...throughout the rest of the New Testament there is no record of celebrating anything other than the resurrection.

but how else could the church get the heathen pagans over to their side without offering a competing holiday?? ;) lol

[thoughtful]

Right; celebrating in school is an endorsement of religion. I would prefer that schools remain completely away from anything religious whatsoever. Just teach my kids and I'll handle the indoctrination, or lack thereof. Obviously I know that's not gonna happen, but completely secular schools and government would be my dream.

Y'know, as soon as I posted, I thought "do I want to open that can of worms?" I hate to distract from the general douchery of Kirk Cameron! :lol:

I generally snip quotes, but really, everyone who answered before I got back to this thread covered a lot of it very well, and I felt they all needed to be included.

Interestingly, Odd1Out, the germ of the problem is actually right in your questions (I made it red). I know you meant no offense, but the fact that you can describe celebrating Christmas, innocently and meaning it as a good thing, as a tradition in our country that can be celebrated (not just discussed) in a tax-funded public school is the crux (wait, that's Easter :D ) of the problem.

Christmas is a Christian holy day. Yes, I know some of the trappings have nothing to do with Jesus, some come from pagan roots, etc. But the tradition that brought Santa and lights and gifts, etc. to the US is the celebration of Christmas that came over with Europeans.

And Christmas is not universal.

I worked in US public schools for many years, with children ranging in age from 5-11. There is no question in my mind that having teacher-directed Christmas stuff in school, even the trappings that seem secular, sent a clear message that Christmas is what regular people do. There might as well have been neon signs declaring "this is what is truly American/OK/normal."

Then, talking about "the other stuff" made it seem even weirder. They might as well have been saying "Let's put little Shmuel and Abdul and AtheistChild under a slide on the microscope, boys and girls."

That is just as unhealthy for the Christian kids, and society in general, as it is for the kids from other beliefs and backgrounds.

As the music teacher, I just sailed right past it, taught as usual, and had performances at other times of year. It turned out to be very practical, as well as what I felt was ethical. I had a ridiculously tiny amount of time with each class -- I wanted to actually teach the skills and content of my subject. And, we had performances that supported all-school themes, math, science and literature curricula, varied greatly each year, and allowed me to choose or compose music that was at the level needed for the kids, so that they were learning, not just rehearsing.

Thanks for the point I made blue, 2xx2xy1jd. The rhythm, the feel, of the year is different in other traditions, and December is not a universal Holiday Season.

[ThisOlGirl]

So I've watched the video a couple times, and what I'm getting is that you can do all the secular Christmas stuff as long as you make it super-Jesusy? I'm still a little confused. But if that's what it means, is it ok for me to go ahead with my plans for a Festivus pole made entirely out of empty PBR cans(stolen from the Interwebz)? Should I put a nativity scene under it?

[thoughtful]

But don't most public schools do some sort of basic run down / cultural celebration of any major holidays that they have reason to believe are represented by students in their classrooms? And often ones that aren't?

If all anyone did was teach about holidays, with age-appropriate explanations, exposure to foods, traditions, etc., if many traditions were covered and treated equally, and if the feeling that there is one Officially Festive Time of Year was avoided, I'd be all for it.

But, my experience was that Christmas was not discussed, it was celebrated, and sometimes a nod was given to Chanukah. That was it -- nothing at any other time of year, from other traditions, etc.

I retired from public school work about six years ago, so my information is not totally up-to-date, although the intensity about testing that you mentioned started long before I left. And, of course, it is limited to a few schools. I know I can't speak for anyone other than myself, and it did get a bit better toward the end.

But it sure was Christmas Central for many of the years I taught - decorations, singalongs, Santa, parties, gift exchanges, St. Lucia processions, etc. Several of the teachers would proudly talk about how multi-cultural their lessons were -- they were covering many different ways to celebrate Advent, Christmas and Epiphany! :roll:

I once had a teacher tell me she didn't need to cover Chanukah that year, since she didn't have any Jewish students.

Oh, and then there was the year that several teachers spent most of December rehearsing kids in a performance of The Grinch (I suspect to give me a FU for not having a Christmas performance), in which the Grinch lighted his way into the house using a menorah (I kid you not). Luckily, another staff member saw a rehearsal, and explained to them why that might not have been a good idea (I don't know if they needed the explanation, but they acted like it was an innocent mistake, and changed it, once they were caught).

They were often very resentful -- a bit of the "war on Christmas" attitude, very pouty and childish at times.

I wanted the white Christian kids to grow up to be people who wouldn't be resentful like these adults, who didn't need it explained to them, who didn't need to be told "check your privilege" or wonder "geez, why are those people always so angry?"

I wanted all of the kids to grow up to celebrate whatever they wanted, in their homes and places of worship, and not feel either that their tradition was "odd," or that their tradition was the only "official" one.

The whole staff wasn't like this, BTW. I did work with lots of lovely people who "got it," and who were more interested in education than their own agendas.

And I don't think even the Christmas-crazy ones were trying to push a religious agenda -- they were just as intense about Halloween. It was more like they didn't want their toys taken away -- they had a sentimental attachment to something that seemed to resonate as Doing Holidays in School Like We Did When I Was a Child. Christmas was Universally American to them.

Some of the nod to Chanukah, as I said in my other post, made it sound like Those Jewish Kids were something to be examined like a bug.

There is a quote from Lies My Teacher Told Me that helps convey some of the feeling that is created when one's own tradition is presented as the norm, and others are discussed from a distance. The author was talking about the presentations of Native American traditions in history books:

Consider how textbooks treat Native religions as a unitary whole. The American Way describes Native American religion in these words: “These Native Americans [in the Southeast] believed that nature was filled with spirits. Each form of life, such as plants and animals, had a spirit. Earth and air held spirits too. People were never alone. They shared their lives with the spirits of nature.â€

Way is trying to show respect for Native American religion, but it doesn’t work. Stated flatly like this, the beliefs seem like make-believe, not the sophisticated theology of a higher civilization.

Let us try a similarly succinct summary of the beliefs of many Christians today: “These Americans believed that one great male god ruled the world. Sometimes they divided him into three parts, which they called father, son, and holy ghost. They ate crackers and wine or grape juice, believing that they were eating the son’s body and drinking his blood. If they believed strongly enough, they would live on forever after they died.â€

Textbooks never describe Christianity this way. It’s offensive. Believers would immediately argue that such a depiction fails to convey the symbolic meaning or the spiritual satisfaction of communion.

It's not an easy problem to solve, I freely admit that.