Bates Updates - Part 2

[Pretzel]

Ursula, that'd be a dream come true for the majority of FJ'ites. However, just a few of those things would already be enough. Like, realizing education is important and them doing the best they can to educate their kids (or have them educated at an actual school, not a SOTDRT). Or them deciding that they CAN limit their family size AND be good Christians etc.etc.

[themothership]

For the doubters: jeans and no sleeves.

Kelly has said time and time again she does not mind if her girls decided to wear pants but her requirement for sleeves stands.

With that said, Alyssa would no doubt wear skirts and sleeves when she's home with her parents. But when she's not - GO ALYSSA, GO!

She is just about as cute as a bugs ear in this picture. Looks so happy!

[HereticHick]

One pair of leggings and one pair of jeans out of dozens and dozens of photos ? Yeah, that's not exactly ditching. The Websters are still ATI/iblp to the core.

Baby steps. When some of us applaud baby steps, it does not equal leg humping.

Perhaps you have more money than I do, but when I was 20 I could not afford to go buy a whole new wardrobe of bottom pieces over a few months.

And since I wear skirts half the time, I guess I am half-fundy, half-Unitarian? :lol:

[nelliebelle1197]

Baby steps. When some of us applaud baby steps, it does not equal leg humping.

Perhaps you have more money than I do, but when I was 20 I could not afford to go buy a whole new wardrobe of bottom pieces over a few months.

And since I wear skirts half the time, I guess I am half-fundy, half-Unitarian? :lol:

A Fundatarian?!

I think the point I am not making clear is that the Websters women wear pants and are still hardcore ATI/IBLP. It is just a different version. Alyssa is just as likely taking advantage of the different standards in dress in the Webster family as anything else.

I wouldn't take it as a signal of anything yet. This is still headship approved dressing.

I have said this before, but I think it is weird to just assume people are moving away from their core beliefs just because they aren't doing things exactly to the letter like their parents.

[ljohnson2006]

Alyssa and John are having a girl. They're naming her Allie Jane.

[FoxyMoxie]

In my immediate circle lately I've seen a range from not finding out the sex prior to birth or picking out the name until after the baby is born

- to posting some gender reveal photo ( family all in pink or blu shirts or balloons etc), ultrasound pic with arrow pointing out the relevant parts and the name announcement - all at 18 weeks.

I prefer the former, personally. But I'm of a certain age, and didn't have ultrasounds with my kids, although it was becoming popular by the time my youngest was born. I liked the surprise.

I have seen more people waiting to find out the last couple of years. In my totally non-scientific sampling of "people I know who are having babies" .

A lot of people also ask for name suggestions on Facebook. I think that's interesting.

Just to point out that ultrasounds are not primarily for finding out the sex of a baby, but to detect foetal abnormalities. It's standard in the UK to have two ultrasounds during pregnancy on the NHS (12 weeks and 20 weeks) unless it is a very high-risk pregnancy, and it's quite normal for the nurse to ask the parents to 'look away now' if they don't want to find out the sex. I know some crunchier parents abstain from ultrasounds, but IMO they are very important for detecting problems. I wasn't aware that ultrasounds were a more recent thing in the US.

[FoxyMoxie]

Also, Alyssa looks just thrilled, as does John. I do not doubt that they are extremely conservative at best and fundie at worst, but I am pleased that Alyssa knows her own mind and ditched the skirts-only-ness (and sleeves!) as soon as she could. While John may be officially the head, I have no doubt that Alyssa is the neck and can turn the head any way she pleases :lol: It's the same for lots of complementarian (into male headship) couples I know - they may be very much of the opinion that the husband is the head, but in practice the husband would never not discuss an issue with his wife. It's more that the husband gets the final say if they reach deadlock, so to speak. I need to make it clear that I don't agree with this at all, but it is rather different to the husband deciding everything the wife does with no input from her (a la Stevehovah).

[nelliebelle1197]

Also, Alyssa looks just thrilled, as does John. I do not doubt that they are extremely conservative at best and fundie at worst, but I am pleased that Alyssa knows her own mind and ditched the skirts-only-ness (and sleeves!) as soon as she could. While John may be officially the head, I have no doubt that Alyssa is the neck and can turn the head any way she pleases :lol: It's the same for lots of complementarian (into male headship) couples I know - they may be very much of the opinion that the husband is the head, but in practice the husband would never not discuss an issue with his wife. It's more that the husband gets the final say if they reach deadlock, so to speak. I need to make it clear that I don't agree with this at all, but it is rather different to the husband deciding everything the wife does with no input from her (a la Stevehovah).

ZooZoo is one of those. I have no doubt she runs that house and PeePee is the second fiddle in that home. As to Teri, do you think she is actually more in charge than we realize? She has managed to get herself a pretty sweet life- Steve and the Childults have taken most of the responsibility outside of homeschooling. People who have seen her in person say that she is much forceful than the fragile creature on the blog. She is one I have always wondered about....

[nelliebelle1197]

Alyssa and John are having a girl. They're naming her Allie Jane.

This was posted a couple pages back!

[Mama Mia]

Just to point out that ultrasounds are not primarily for finding out the sex of a baby, but to detect foetal abnormalities. It's standard in the UK to have two ultrasounds during pregnancy on the NHS (12 weeks and 20 weeks) unless it is a very high-risk pregnancy, and it's quite normal for the nurse to ask the parents to 'look away now' if they don't want to find out the sex. I know some crunchier parents abstain from ultrasounds, but IMO they are very important for detecting problems. I wasn't aware that ultrasounds were a more recent thing in the US.

I know all that. I'm old my kids are mid twenties to mid thirties. I did have one at 12 weeks with my youngest , that was that doctors policy, and a quick scan for placenta position with another kid. But they weren't standard back then. I did know several people who were having them just to find out the sex though right around when my youngest were born.

[FoxyMoxie]

Although I am not a Bates leghumper at all, it is interesting that the Bates girls seem to have more confidence in themselves than the Duggar girls. While I don't think Kelly Bates is a better person than Michelle, I do think she puts up less of a mask than Michelle - Michelle seems to fake keeping sweet more, Kelly actually does keep sweet. Does that make sense? I feel like there's more focus on appearances for the Duggars. I feel like a Duggar girl would be more anxious to keep her parents on her side.

[nelliebelle1197]

Although I am not a Bates leghumper at all, it is interesting that the Bates girls seem to have more confidence in themselves than the Duggar girls. While I don't think Kelly Bates is a better person than Michelle, I do think she puts up less of a mask than Michelle - Michelle seems to fake keeping sweet more, Kelly actually does keep sweet. Does that make sense? I feel like there's more focus on appearances for the Duggars. I feel like a Duggar girl would be more anxious to keep her parents on her side.

It is likely because the Duggars have been on TV for years and are much more artificial as a result.

[HereticHick]

It is likely because the Duggars have been on TV for years and are much more artificial as a result.

This is an excellent point, and one of the main reasons I want to watch the Bates--if they stay on tv, will they become more scripted, more self-conscious, more artificial? And I think that will automatically make them less "likable." Or, is UPTV striving to improve upon the Duggar show by encouraging the Bates to appear as natural as possible, and the Bates girls to stay "spunky."

[Majessasticpearls]

Woo-Alyssa looks great. She's the cutest of all the Bates-not because she's as classically stunning as Michael or Erin,but she's got a pretty face,seems spunky,has a cute little petite build,and dresses modern with her sleeveless tops and big earrings.

Of course I know that she's still like the rest of them except in a different packaging,but come on,it's at least refreshing to see her ditch the skirts and fundie demeanor!

[nelliebelle1197]

This is an excellent point, and one of the main reasons I want to watch the Bates--if they stay on tv, will they become more scripted, more self-conscious, more artificial? And I think that will automatically make them less "likable." Or, is UPTV striving to improve upon the Duggar show by encouraging the Bates to appear as natural as possible, and the Bates girls to stay "spunky."

Can you imagine what it was like for the Duggars to go from small town Arkansas to TLC? Having to balance between the super fundie reality with growing up on TV? Plus, TLC wants to portray them as freaks and create story lines. I think being on UP is positive for the Bates. They are the closest things that network has to celebrities and I would bet they have more control.

[formergothardite]

I also think that Jim Bob and Michelle might not realize how some of the things they are prompted to do and say make them look. I'm sure that on their own they would have never ended up in a head shop in San Francisco, or done the Lego talk with Josh or possible had the awkward courtship thing that went on in what looked like a closet with Jessa.

[nelliebelle1197]

Oh, well, that is just sad.

[divadivine]

I watched the last two episodes of Bringing Up Bates tonight. I kept trying to figure out who Alyssa sounded like when she talked. She doesn't have much of an accent. I finally figured it out. She sounds like Miriam McDonald who played Emma on Degrassi:The Next Generation. Sadly, a show the Bates kids will never get to watch.

[calimojo]

Can you imagine what it was like for the Duggars to go from small town Arkansas to TLC? Having to balance between the super fundie reality with growing up on TV? Plus, TLC wants to portray them as freaks and create story lines. I think being on UP is positive for the Bates. They are the closest things that network has to celebrities and I would bet they have more control.

Good point, I am sure it was a big shock for the Duggars. For the kids it gave them a better material life; better home, more food, better instruments, travel opportunities, etc. But it took so much of their privacy. I remember clips of the kids puking on that plain at the Grand Canyon and just thought Why would anyone let that be on tv? I mean, to me, Puking is a rather private affair. Talking about virginity ad nauseum is also private. While I am sure for JB and M, it was nice to have their finances set for their huge family, It just cost them so much, so much that they probably will never realize they really sold their souls to the devil for a big house and fame.

With the Bateses, I think they have the benefit of hindsight, from the Duggars and their own failed TLC show. I have noticed that they don't focus on the littlest ones too much ( though the rock up the nose was kind of cute, as I had my own Nose freak with my youngest). It seems like really the kids of majority or close to majority are the ones getting the most focus. Could this be an effort to protect the younger ones a bit?

I just never think it is ever a good idea to put kids on tv going through puberty and such. That is such a challenging time, and no one should have to have that time of their life filmed for other people's entertainment.

[colors_outside15]

To the bolded, I understand your point of view and that it's likely Alyssa has not "ditched" her parents ideas/religion. However, in less than a year, she moved to Florida, made friends, decorated beautifully, got her ears pierced, started wearing jeans, and is now on Instagram in a tanktop. That's a lot for ANYONE to do - especially all within less than nine months. Yes, Alyssa might "just" be conforming to a new standard, but I do think she has the option to say no. I highly doubt John would take Alyssa shopping and force her to try on jeans or pose for what looks like maternity photographs in clothes she is not comfortable wearing. So, yes, she has new influences around her and a new climate, but she choose that and none of her other siblings have yet. I get the feeling Chad planned to move with Erin after she graduated, but they are staying near her family because of the emotional turmoil of miscarriages. Chad earns major points in my book for the love and care he shows Erin and the fact that even though it was stated they would likely move - they haven't. Alyssa did though and she's finding her own style. When she left her house, she had to choose clothes from a closet she shared with all of her siblings. I highly doubt she got to take tons of clothes with her to Florida. So, she got to Florida and went shopping and she continues to make changes and be comfortable and confident with them. If she didn't want to wear pants, be seen in a tanktop etc. she wouldn't have posted that picture on Instagram. Alyssa may not have full control, but she clearly knows what she wants and is going for it all at 20. Major props to her - I didn't even get out until 21 and wasn't fully out until later than that. I'm really happy for Alyssa. We all want good things for these fundie children and if Alyssa was happy staying in skirts/dresses, fine, but I'm way more stoked by the lack of wholesome wear and sleeves than I would be if she was still marching to the beat she was not just taught, but was engrained in her. GO ALYSSA!

A Fundatarian?!

I think the point I am not making clear is that the Websters women wear pants and are still hardcore ATI/IBLP. It is just a different version. Alyssa is just as likely taking advantage of the different standards in dress in the Webster family as anything else.

I wouldn't take it as a signal of anything yet. This is still headship approved dressing.

I have said this before, but I think it is weird to just assume people are moving away from their core beliefs just because they aren't doing things exactly to the letter like their parents.

[actuallyjessica]

I watched the last two episodes of Bringing Up Bates tonight. I kept trying to figure out who Alyssa sounded like when she talked. She doesn't have much of an accent. I finally figured it out. She sounds like Miriam McDonald who played Emma on Degrassi:The Next Generation. Sadly, a show the Bates kids will never get to watch.

i think she sounds like selena gomez.

[jerkit]

TLC purposely tries to portray the duggars as a circus show. UP has a vested interest in trying to make he bates seem like a normal Christian family who happens to have a lot of kids. They are a religious station with mainstream conservative Christian viewers.

[actuallyjessica]

nope, the duggar family bring the circus vibe all on their own.

[jerkit]

nope, the duggar family bring the circus vibe all on their own.

I agree, but I think TLC puts them in certain situations to amplify that.

[stardust]

I watched the last two episodes of Bringing Up Bates tonight. I kept trying to figure out who Alyssa sounded like when she talked. She doesn't have much of an accent. I finally figured it out. She sounds like Miriam McDonald who played Emma on Degrassi:The Next Generation. Sadly, a show the Bates kids will never get to watch.

I'll pay you a million dollars to upload the episodes online! I still haven't seen them because I don't have UPtv.