Lori and Ken Alexander -- Please buy a dictionary

[salex]

Lori is over making up definitions again. I have no idea if her church teaches this nonsense, or if she makes it up, but her headship, who apparently went to seminary when they were first married, should know better.

 

Lori says :

 

 

Quote

]Since our(Women's) curse was to "desire" our husbands, meaning to control them, it makes sense that this will be our greatest battle. When we confess this to our husbands and acknowledge that our trying to control them is wrong, it will help them to see that we truly don't want to control them anymore and are working on giving it up.

 

Seriously? She gets that women will control men from God's curse to Eve? The one where Eve is cursed with big headed babies and a desire for her husband (face it, if she didn't want sex, the painful labor curse wouldn't mean much)

 

So, Ken, buy Lori a dictionary. Or correct her (isn't that what a headship is for?). But stop her from these stupid fails at using the English language. Note lack of the concept of control in the following definition of Desire.

 

Bing Dictionary

de·sire

[ di zÄ«Ìr ]

1.wish for something: to want something very strongly

2.find somebody sexually attractive: to want to have sexual relations with somebody

3.request something: to wish for and request something

 

 

or, a bible dictionary

 

Desire [N]

 

The word "desire" covers a wide range of human wants, emotions, and cravings. It can describe natural desires, which include hunger for food, sexual longings, and desire for God. It can also describe unnatural desires or cravings, which include such things as greed and lust. On a few occasions desires are ascribed to God. Most of the time they are ascribed to man, and these desires come under the scrutiny of God.

 

The Old Testament. There are twenty-seven Hebrew words translated "desire" (this includes root words and their derivatives).

 

Kasap [@;s'K] means to yearn for or to long after. Hapes [ep'j] has a basic meaning of feeling great favor toward something, and is found seventy-one times in the Old Testament, being translated "delight" or "pleasure" the majority of the time, and "desire" nine times. Baqas [v;q'B] speaks of a person's earnest seeking of something or someone. It is usually translated "to seek, " "require, " or "desire."

 

The idea of "be attached to" and "love" comes from hasaq [q;v'j]. This root may denote the strong desire of a man toward a beautiful woman, as in Genesis 34:8. Hamad [d;m'j] is translated "delight in" and also "desire." The desire can be positive as in Exodus 34:24; job 20:20; Psalm 68:16; and Isaiah 53:2. It can also be negative, in the form of "covet" or "lust after, " as seen in Exodus 20:17; Deuteronomy 5:21; 7:25; Joshua 7:21; Proverbs 6:25; 12:12; and Micah 2:2. Hamad [d;m'j] describes both God's "pleasant" (desirable) trees in Eden ( Gen 2:9 ) and the tree forbidden to Adam, which became sinful when "desired" to make one wise ( Gen 3:6 ).

 

One of the most frequently used words in the Old Testament to indicate desire is awa [h"w'a] and its derivatives, which can be found almost fifty times. Often the subject of this verb is nephes [v,p,n], meaning self, soul, or appetite. The term is translated as "desire, " "lust, " "will, " "pleasant, " "greed, " "dainty, " and "desirable."

 

biblestudytools.com/dictionary/desire/

 

Control is NOT found in any of these definitions, or the others on the website i didn't copy over. Desire is wanting, even lusting, but not controlling. Don't you wish Lori had wanted and sexually lusted for you instead of trying to control you all those years?)

 

I knew I shouldn't read your blog, Ken. But I was bored-- I am amazed how your wife and her followers must dislike (not desire) their husbands. I can't imagine marrying someone I didn't love, admire and desire. (in the real sense of the word.)

[RosyDaisy]

First of all desiring your husband is not a curse. Second, desire does not mean control.

[jerkit]

Lori makes shit up to suit her own agenda. /gavel

[FloraKitty35]

There is a difference between desiring and lusting.

[Koala]

Lori has never desired Ken, and all she's ever wanted to do is control him (and everyone else around her).

Therefore: Desire=Control. God's ways are best.

Gospel of Lori 1:1

[RosyDaisy]

According to fundies, isn't your husband the only man you are supposed to desire and lust after? Lori makes no damn sense.

[Coco]

It actually is preached from the pulpit that way, though Lori is leaving a lot out.

It's been so many years that i'm having trouble remembering the "logic", but it's based on this verse:

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Gen. 3:16

IIRC, fundies morph the "he shall rule over thee" into a punishment on women for their inherited generational sin from Eve. (Her sin was the need to be the leader) They say Eve chomped the forbidden fruit not just to taste it: the fruit was from the Tree of Life. So really she gave into the temptation whispered from Satan (in the form of a snake that could walk, before God cursed it) to become like God and know good from evil... Basically fundies say she wanted to be the one leading the way and seize the power.

Other sermons will preach it from another direction: It was Adam's idea to eat the fruit but he was making Eve the scapegoat by forcing her to do his evil experiment and then blaming her. And those sermons say that's why men are so unlikely to want to be a spiritual leader, and why women have to be punished to be in submission to the reluctant man.

Typing all this made me realize how we were taught so many outlandish stories as children and took them for fact. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me anymore.

[jerkit]

I've been banned. Want to know what got me banned?

"Why does desire = control? I don't understand this definition and where it came from."

[polecat]

I've been banned. Want to know what got me banned?

"Why does desire = control? I don't understand this definition and where it came from."

I liked the one woman's comment about how women would have no pain in childbirth if they just had enough faith. Lori responded with her usual shrill hysteria: "EVERY GODLY WOMAN I HAVE EVER KNOWN HAS SUFFERED PAIN IN CHILDBIRTH!!!!!" I actually do know at least two women who swear that childbirth was not particularly uncomfortable for them, and their labors were extremely short (less than an hour for one of them).

And then the other woman who said control wasn't her area of difficulty but something else was. To which Lori predictably responded that SHE had a control issue, therefore EVERY woman has a control issue. Just like every woman runs around like a headless chicken when there is a fire in the vicinity and just like every woman hates sex but tolerates it for the 10 minutes 2x a week that her husband demands it. Because Lori.

[jerkit]

I liked the one woman's comment about how women would have no pain in childbirth if they just had enough faith. Lori responded with her usual shrill hysteria: "EVERY GODLY WOMAN I HAVE EVER KNOWN HAS SUFFERED PAIN IN CHILDBIRTH!!!!!" I actually do know at least two women who swear that childbirth was not particularly uncomfortable for them, and their labors were extremely short (less than an hour for one of them).

And then the other woman who said control wasn't her area of difficulty but something else was. To which Lori predictably responded that SHE had a control issue, therefore EVERY woman has a control issue. Just like every woman runs around like a headless chicken when there is a fire in the vicinity and just like every woman hates sex but tolerates it for the 10 minutes 2x a week that her husband demands it. Because Lori.

I was banned for asking for clarification about the post but a woman claiming True Christians don't have pain during childbirth - that's hunky dory.

[polecat]

I was banned for asking for clarification about the post but a woman claiming True Christians don't have pain during childbirth - that's hunky dory.

I found that comment utterly delightful. They are so freaking good at one-upping one another that now women who have pain in childbirth are just not good enough Christians. I'm surprised Lori didn't delete it, too, though, simply because it implies that Lori is a crappy Christian. :nenner:

[jerkit]

I found that comment utterly delightful. They are so freaking good at one-upping one another that now women who have pain in childbirth are just not good enough Christians. I'm surprised Lori didn't delete it, too, though, simply because it implies that Lori is a crappy Christian. :nenner:

If I end up with high blood pressure, lori is solely responsible. Damn that woman gets under my skin.

[Jana814]

Lori makes shit up to suit her own agenda. /gavel

Agree!

[Koala]

I've been banned. Want to know what got me banned?

"Why does desire = control? I don't understand this definition and where it came from."

The smart is not with Lori....

[ILoveJellybeans]

It says a lot about Lori when she says to desire your partner is to want to control them....most normal people would see desiring someone as loving them in a romantic way, or wanting to sleep with them.

[Koala]

It was not until I threw off the shackles of trying to please my wife, and instead began to tell her "no" I am going to go play golf now... or "no" I am going to eat this burger now, that I began to feel good about my life and stop walking on eggshells in my own home. To realize that I cannot control her, and if she wants to be upset over a burger, then so be it. Let it not rob my joy.

The interesting thing I have seen is that true intimacy cannot flourish apart from vulnerability, and vulnerably is the opposite of control. It is when we give up control to our heavenly Father and rest on His desires in our life that we draw near to him, and trust Him, and walk by faith in the Spirit. When we try to control our own lives and the people around us what we are really doing is say I lack faith in you, both your spouse and God.

So trying to please your wife is like being in "shackles", but a wife should constantly strive to please her husband? Awesome. Got it. :roll:

Recap:

Controlling wife= Bad

Controlling husband= Good

Pleasing your wife= Shakles

Pleasing your husband= your role as a woman

[Koala]

It says a lot about Lori when she says to desire your partner is to want to control them....most normal people would see desiring someone as loving them in a romantic way, or wanting to sleep with them.

She has been very clear that she has always wanted to control everyone around her.

I am the oldest of three girls. I was bossy and controlling. Ask my sisters. They will tell you I always got my way.

When our Homeowners Association wouldn't allow basketball hoops in our driveway, guess who wrote the letter protesting and went around and got all the signatures...Me!

When the dog below us yapped constantly, guess who called them all the time, left notes on their door, and wrote a letter telling them they better shut that dog up Or Else and got all the neighbors to sign it...Me!

Ask my children how controlling I was...They had to sneak junk food, so I wouldn't get mad at them. I think they were actually afraid of me, which I don't necessarily think is bad. Kids should have a deep respect for authority.

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2011/06/it-aint-easy-being-submissive-wife.html

[usmcmom]

This was the exchange that really irked me:

Shari · 1 day ago :

Well I'm glad I'm free from the curse. I don't live under any curses.

Lori Alexander · 1 day ago :

You don't have ANY pain in childbirth??? Your husband doesn't have to work hard to provide??? Wow! Where do you live? In heaven?

I am sorry, Shari, but as long as we live on this earth, we will live with the curses that God gave Adam and Eve. True, Christ made us new creatures in Christ but we will still have pain in childbirth, husbands will have to work the earth hard to provide, etc. Thankfully, the Holy Spirit lives inside of us to give us the power to no longer try to control our husbands, but walking in obedience doesn't always come easily, especially "taming the tongue" as James points out.

**********

See, if this were a reasonable person's blog they might have said "Shari - your comment intrigues me. Tell me more," and then engaged in a decent, adult discussion.

I was actually curious to know Shari's viewpoint. But Ken and Lori turn all seventh-grade snotty girl on their readers and just cannot engage in civil conversation. It seems they've recently made a post about how open they are to civil comments and interesting discussion. Their reaction to Shari's comment proves they are not. Their arrogance makes my blood boil.

And while I'm here. If Lori could please, PLEASE, stop writing "one YEARS old," I'm sure many of us would be appreciative. I've tried to overlook it, but she continues to type that. Her grandson is one YEAR old. I cannot fathom how she calls herself a teacher.

[Koala]

This was the exchange that really irked me:

Shari · 1 day ago :

Well I'm glad I'm free from the curse. I don't live under any curses.

Lori Alexander · 1 day ago :

You don't have ANY pain in childbirth??? Your husband doesn't have to work hard to provide??? Wow! Where do you live? In heaven?

I am sorry, Shari, but as long as we live on this earth, we will live with the curses that God gave Adam and Eve. True, Christ made us new creatures in Christ but we will still have pain in childbirth, husbands will have to work the earth hard to provide, etc. Thankfully, the Holy Spirit lives inside of us to give us the power to no longer try to control our husbands, but walking in obedience doesn't always come easily, especially "taming the tongue" as James points out.

**********

See, if this were a reasonable person's blog they might have said "Shari - your comment intrigues me. Tell me more," and then engaged in a decent, adult discussion.

I was actually curious to know Shari's viewpoint. But Ken and Lori turn all seventh-grade snotty girl on their readers and just cannot engage in civil conversation. It seems they've recently made a post about how open they are to civil comments and interesting discussion. Their reaction to Shari's comment proves they are not. Their arrogance makes my blood boil.

And while I'm here. If Lori could please, PLEASE, stop writing "one YEARS old," I'm sure many of us would be appreciative. I've tried to overlook it, but she continues to type that. Her grandson is one YEAR old. I cannot fathom how she calls herself a teacher.

I have news for teacher Lori. I delivered 2 children and didn't have ANY pain with EITHER birth. To this day I couldn't tell you what a contraction feels like. After their births I was immediately back on my feet. In fact, I got up so soon after having my daughter that the epidural hadn't even worn off yet and a nurse caught me right as I was about to hit the floor. With my son, I clearly remember my mother in law wincing when I plopped down on the hardwood floors and sat cross legged while folding baby clothes. I was just incredibly lucky, and felt absolutely fabulous (physically).

Further, if she honors your request and stops referring to her grandson being "one years old" I would like for her to honor mine and stop saying "suppose" when she should say "supposed" and "use" when she should say "used". Drives me fucking nuts. :pull-hair:

[Koala]

I like this comment she just got:

"If you don't love me enough to trust me and to let me live my own life, then do you really love me? Or do you simply love yourself more and want to protect that love of self by using control? Selfishness is self seeking and love seeks the best interest of another in good times and in bad, and until death do us part."

I think this goes both ways and can be abused by both wives and husbands. Any partner who feels they must live walking on eggshells should examine to see if they are in an abusive relationship. Not all abuse is physical, it can be abusive and emotional.

I would also suggest that frankly, instead of worrying about if your husband will treat you well or if he will "not put up with your antics" and raising your daughters to marry a man who won't put up with antics, perhaps raise your daughters not to view "antics" as a part of an adult person's life.

She'll probably delete it.

[salex]

Lori's qualifications for her blog seem to be that she is a bitch who knows it and tries, lately, to be less of a bitch, to save her marriage.

Yes, she may have been a teacher 30 years ago. Yes, her church lets her "mentor" some women, possibly officially. (how big are Ken's annual donations to keep that going) and yes, she managed to stay married for several decades, bascially because she married a man who was wholly unwilling to divorce--but he did scare her somehow to get the change.

he also apparently stated (per the quote here) that he finally quit giving a shit what Lori said or did.... so that had to help.

Tell me again, why anyone would listen to this shrew's advice?

[Koala]

Another comment:

"Just remember that control always requires more control to stay in control, and the one you are controlling may behave more like you want them to, but will give less and less of their heart away to you. Why? Because love is a choice and if I do something for my wife because of her mood and control, we both lose out on the opportunity toward true intimacy."

So that how men feel when someone tries to control them, makes sense. But women are supposed to feel what, joyful? For example, with the sex issue and wives should have sex with their husbands whenever THEY desire it... well I can be obedient I guess but my heart is going to feel unloved and even resentful. It's not ok for men to feel this way but wives just have to deal with it?

[moodygirl86]

Lori, I'm confused about this pain thing. You and your mates seem confused as to whether pain maketh the Christian. You think the pain you've experienced makes you holier-than-thou, but the other school of thought is that if you're feeling it, you're...not holy. Which is it? I really would like to know.

[usmcmom]

Another comment:

Lori has told that woman to find an older godly woman to help her in this sin. I would like to invite this commenter to join us here on FJ where she will find people who actually love others and, as a bonus, are able to string together proper, coherent sentences.

[Koala]

Lori Alexander:

God seems to think that this petty and manipulative behavior is a characteristic of most women and something we have to change.

*whiny voice* "But GOD thinks women are shrews tooooooo!!!!!"

So let me get this straight. God cursed women to "desire" their husbands. Desire=Control. But that's not right because the man is supposed to get to be the controlling one, so now the woman needs to change the "characteristics" that God cursed her with, because he doesn't like it. Do I have that right?