10 Shraders in Zambia and counting...

[Peas n carrots]

This whole pleasure trip for John really infuriates me, and what infuriates me more are folks like shraderfriend who support it. At the very lease, VACCINATE your kids. This is the same guy who has no problems accepting planes and troupers as gifts but he can't also put it out there to his supporters that he needs help getting his kids vaccinated.

I really don't understand how anyone can be so blind to how selfish he is. I'm just so stunned at how PB this whole venture is...it's like he is using the book as his how-to manual for being a missionary!

[uber frau]

This whole pleasure trip for John really infuriates me, and what infuriates me more are folks like shraderfriend who support it. At the very lease, VACCINATE your kids. This is the same guy who has no problems accepting planes and troupers as gifts but he can't also put it out there to his supporters that he needs help getting his kids vaccinated.

I really don't understand how anyone can be so blind to how selfish he is. I'm just so stunned at how PB this whole venture is...it's like he is using the book as his how-to manual for being a missionary!

He doesn't just accept those things, he actively ASKS for them. And then he whinges about the cost of providing the most basic (and cost effective) medical care for his 'blessings'.

[salex]

Until the widespread availability (at least in my country) of medical intervention - childbirth/pregnancy was a leading cause of female mortality and morbidity. It still is in areas where women have no or little access to medical intervention should it become necessary. I hope that Esther does not need intervention but if she does I hope she gets the care she needs.

However what if she doesn't? What happens if worst comes to worst and she dies? I suppose one answer for her husband would be to marry again (and quickly, as I can't see him stepping up to take care of his own children), but what woman would want to be saddled with a husband who traipses around doing as he pleases while leaving his family in a church basement or pop up with little or no money and having to care for 8 (?9) children (plus however many the new wife would add).

It sounds like a nightmare to me.

We've discussed before who might be replacement wives for these men with many children, if they were widowed. I think someone said some aging stay at home daughter might fill the bill, IF her dad liked the man in question. By 30+, the sahd would surely have her PhD in advanced housekeeping/keeper at home work, and if she's an older daugther of a quiverfull, would be used to caring for another woman's children. Plus, sometime in her life she surely said she had a heart for missions... so a missionary husband would be prime.

Have we seen a mother of many children die? We've seen a couple of brides murdered, but are their any quiverful widows or widowers we can get examples from?

[merrily]

Does John have any back up plan at all for his family? Or does he just think God would step up and lend a hand ? :evil-eye:

[Curious]

Does John have any back up plan at all for his family? Or does he just think God would step up and lend a hand ? :evil-eye:

Backup plan? He doesn't even have a plan plan most of the time :(

[Burpies]

Does John have any back up plan at all for his family? Or does he just think God would step up and lend a hand ? :evil-eye:

Why would he have any reason to not think God is going to step up and lend a hand? He wants a plane? Pray and BAM-gets a plane! Want a Troupie? Pray and Bam-gets a Troupie! Want to find a place in Zambia for your preg wife and 8 kids without looking beforehand? Pray and BAM-acquire a house! (A house that may, in fact be better than how they were used to living in the US) I don't see anything in John's history that would show him that the way to acquire the things you need and keep your family safe need requires anything more than prayers (and begging for money), and not hard work and sacrifice. Why would he need any kind of plan?

[Flossie]

Have we seen a mother of many children die? We've seen a couple of brides murdered, but are their any quiverful widows or widowers we can get examples from?

There was a woman who used to post on the Duggar thread on TWoP. Aunty Tig, or something very much like that.

Anyway, her brother and his wife went quiverfull and had about a dozen kids. Then the wife died during a homebirth of twins. The father tried to keep the family together for about a year and then gave up and left.

A few of the kids were already married, and a couple were old enough to either decide to go out on their own or find their own landing places with family or friends.

The kids that were left were divided up among family members. Aunti Tig took in three grade school boys, and it's been quite a ride. As I recall, they were quite a handful. When they first arrived, they were pretty wild, as their previous life was pretty chaotic. Not a lot of structure, then their mom died and things got worse. Suddenly they were moved into a home where they had structure, regular meals, baths, schooling, etc.

It's been difficult for them, but I think they're going on their fourth or fifth year together and things are working out. Some of the other kids from the family aren't doing as well.

[ILoveJellybeans]

There was a woman who used to post on the Duggar thread on TWoP. Aunty Tig, or something very much like that.

Anyway, her brother and his wife went quiverfull and had about a dozen kids. Then the wife died during a homebirth of twins. The father tried to keep the family together for about a year and then gave up and left.

A few of the kids were already married, and a couple were old enough to either decide to go out on their own or find their own landing places with family or friends.

The kids that were left were divided up among family members. Aunti Tig took in three grade school boys, and it's been quite a ride. As I recall, they were quite a handful. When they first arrived, they were pretty wild, as their previous life was pretty chaotic. Not a lot of structure, then their mom died and things got worse. Suddenly they were moved into a home where they had structure, regular meals, baths, schooling, etc.

It's been difficult for them, but I think they're going on their fourth or fifth year together and things are working out. Some of the other kids from the family aren't doing as well.

Wow, I cant believe that as much as fundies say they love families, a father would just dump his kids when his wife died.

OK, this sort of thing does happen. I have custody of my four much younger siblings because my mom died and my stepdad lost interest in parenting them, so let me raise them.

But fundies say they don't even want to send their kids to a babysitter or to school, but it is totally okay for someone to abandon their kids? They brag about being better parents than us heathens, but most dads would never give up on their kids like that.

[Feberin]

Have we seen a mother of many children die? We've seen a couple of brides murdered, but are their any quiverful widows or widowers we can get examples from?

There was Lydia of Purple. Her children were older but she did have one daughter with special needs plus several daughters who weren't married off yet. Her husband remarried quickly if I recall although I can't remember many details about the woman. Just that she was a lot younger then him.

[Lillybee]

I thought that the dad died in a car crash. The Tigs as she called them are doing much better as they adjust to a world outside ATI. They even are caught up with their school work.

[scc12]

Does John have any back up plan at all for his family? Or does he just think God would step up and lend a hand ? :evil-eye:

Good thought.IMO I think even God requires a contingency plan.

I would think even a fundie dad would ask any potential suitors for their daughter,the no. 1 question (in my book anyway).And that is, "ARE YOU WILLING TO WORK HARD TO SUPPORT A LARGE FAMILY?"

[BravaAmica]

Wow, I cant believe that as much as fundies say they love families, a father would just dump his kids when his wife died.

OK, this sort of thing does happen. I have custody of my four much younger siblings because my mom died and my stepdad lost interest in parenting them, so let me raise them.

But fundies say they don't even want to send their kids to a babysitter or to school, but it is totally okay for someone to abandon their kids? They brag about being better parents than us heathens, but most dads would never give up on their kids like that.

Really? I have zero problem believing he dumped his kids because his wife died. Look at how fundies TREAT their children and you will see how much they are valued. All the pretty words like blessing and gifts are the window dressing. So, yeah, the lip service is "Children are gifts from God and cherished" yet there is so little action behind those words. We see systematic physical, psychological and sexual abuse, inadequate shelter, food and virtually no medical care. And that's just in the fundie families that blog online. So when I hear about a father that dumped his children after his wife died, I find it plausible and not at all shocking.

Children in religious fundamentalist homes are at higher risk of abuse.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Yeah, they don't practice what they preach. They say that the highest calling anyone could ever have in life is to have a large family, and that children are a blessing, and that their method is parenting is superior.....but it is obvious to people who look close that they don't give a shit about their kids.

I just didn't think they would be so blatant about it.

[chaotic life]

I've stayed out of this stuff, but I think I'm ready to share now.

I'm a former MK. My family served with the Eastern Mennonite Mission board to Latin America and later with the Methodists to Appalachia. I myself have worked with Heifer Project, with the Central Mennonite Commission and (regrettably) with Teen Missions. I no longer identify as Christian at all but I still firmly support humanitarian and developmental work in the world, even if the organizations themselves are Christian, provided the work is done well and from a cultural sensitive perspective.

My father's main work in the mission field was running national seminaries. He did not witness, bring people to Christ, whatever. He TAUGHT the pastors, and his stateside work in Appalachia was of the identical genre. His work was empowering locals to provide for their own spiritual needs, not coming to save them and rescue them.

Heifer Project, whether anyone knows they are Christian or not, speaks for themselves on their work in this world. I would proudly serve with Heifer Project short-term or long-term again. And, the Mennonite mission work? Well ask anyone who has lived through natural disasters. The Mennonites are the first to come and the last to leave.

Sadly, Teen Missions personifies what I won't support in missions anymore, and it's precisely what Shrader is in Zambia promoting.

Ethical missions organizations these days understand that mission work can NEVER be about Western Christians coming into an area and evangelizing, taking control, telling the nationals how things need to be done. Ethical missions cannot be about just evangelism at all. Mission work requires social missions. You must be cultural sensitive and cultural aware, and you must meet the needs that exist and not those you impose upon a region. You must also address the needs of the body, as this is how you reach the soul (I'll go vomit now because as I said I am NOT Christian now, but I'm okay with those who work with populations being honest about their own faith orientation just the same).

Most mission work these days requires highly trained individuals, frequently requires master's degree education. John Shrader lacks any of the qualifications to be a missionary. He lacks the cultural sensitivity required. Furthermore, I see no information that he is going with an established organization, to meet identified needs within Zambia versus those he feels he wants to impose upon them. And yes, those fancy toys he has grifted for already, that is a HUGE, HUGE sign of unethical missionary work in the first place. That is NOT the basis of social missions. He has NO need for those high price tag toys except that it makes him feel good to have them.

He may spend years in Zambia, sadly. Those of his ilk accomplish this all the time. However, he will create as many problems as he believes he solves, and he will sully the work of those who have the training, experience and ability to actually DO work in Zambia. He doesn't enter this from an ecumenical standpoint, and coming in with such divisions already in place is BAD for overseas work. When I worked with Heifer, the main missionaries were Quaker, Methodist and Disciples of Christ but they ALL worked for Heifer's developmental goals.

As for the care of his family, most solid mission organizations now limit family sizes for missionaries, because most organizations are committed that if something goes wrong on the mission field, they will evacuate the family and they cannot financially afford to do that with large numbers of Americans, especially children, on the ground. That alone ought to tell you the foolhardy nature of Shrader's game. He and Esther cannot possibly care for a family that size AND do the work that they should be doing if they are going to be IN Zambia in the first place. Heavily pregnant women are typically kept stateside, or from that area of Africa would possibly be housed closer with top-notch medical care. They are not typically allowed in the field while that pregnant, much less starting there. It's stupid and irresponsible to do that. It places Esther AND her unborn child in significant risk.

My grandmother nearly died from Typhoid. My grandfather was a diplomat and not a missionary. She had access to the very best medical care where they were stationed and it still nearly killed her. Going overseas without our vaccines was NEVER an option for my family. Even so, we went before the HepA vaccine existed. My own sister nearly died of HepA. The janitor of her school was refilling the children's bottled water from the tap. They did not understand that while the tap water was fully safe for themselves as a local, it was NOT safe for the missionary children. My most vivid memory from my childhood in Latin America was my sister being carried, sick and pale, to have an abbreviated Christmas celebration with the family and too sick to do the full celebration.

I have personally had food poisoning on the Amazon. It was a terrifying experience, and I was terribly grateful for the healthcare available in Brazil and their knowledge of how to treat me quickly, it was not something I would have voluntarily incurred and deeply regretted not checking harder for produce on the sandwich that made me sick. It was a slice of tomato from a street vendor that did me in, ONE SLICE.

I'm not aware of long-term treatment options to avoid malaria. I haven't traveled in several years so maybe there's something I don't know about that has come out since I was traveling. As missionaries, we were always stuck with the local risks for malaria, because the treatment options could not be maintained long-term or were harsh on the liver. Beyond that, there is just NO excuse for not protecting his family as much as possible. There's a reason people keep referencing The Poisonwood Bible. It's very apropos for this situation.

[Mitz_]

I've stayed out of this stuff, but I think I'm ready to share now.

I'm a former MK. My family served with the Eastern Mennonite Mission board to Latin America and later with the Methodists to Appalachia. I myself have worked with Heifer Project, with the Central Mennonite Commission and (regrettably) with Teen Missions. I no longer identify as Christian at all but I still firmly support humanitarian and developmental work in the world, even if the organizations themselves are Christian, provided the work is done well and from a cultural sensitive perspective.

My father's main work in the mission field was running national seminaries. He did not witness, bring people to Christ, whatever. He TAUGHT the pastors, and his stateside work in Appalachia was of the identical genre. His work was empowering locals to provide for their own spiritual needs, not coming to save them and rescue them.

Heifer Project, whether anyone knows they are Christian or not, speaks for themselves on their work in this world. I would proudly serve with Heifer Project short-term or long-term again. And, the Mennonite mission work? Well ask anyone who has lived through natural disasters. The Mennonites are the first to come and the last to leave.

Sadly, Teen Missions personifies what I won't support in missions anymore, and it's precisely what Shrader is in Zambia promoting.

Ethical missions organizations these days understand that mission work can NEVER be about Western Christians coming into an area and evangelizing, taking control, telling the nationals how things need to be done. Ethical missions cannot be about just evangelism at all. Mission work requires social missions. You must be cultural sensitive and cultural aware, and you must meet the needs that exist and not those you impose upon a region. You must also address the needs of the body, as this is how you reach the soul (I'll go vomit now because as I said I am NOT Christian now, but I'm okay with those who work with populations being honest about their own faith orientation just the same).

Most mission work these days requires highly trained individuals, frequently requires master's degree education. John Shrader lacks any of the qualifications to be a missionary. He lacks the cultural sensitivity required. Furthermore, I see no information that he is going with an established organization, to meet identified needs within Zambia versus those he feels he wants to impose upon them. And yes, those fancy toys he has grifted for already, that is a HUGE, HUGE sign of unethical missionary work in the first place. That is NOT the basis of social missions. He has NO need for those high price tag toys except that it makes him feel good to have them.

He may spend years in Zambia, sadly. Those of his ilk accomplish this all the time. However, he will create as many problems as he believes he solves, and he will sully the work of those who have the training, experience and ability to actually DO work in Zambia. He doesn't enter this from an ecumenical standpoint, and coming in with such divisions already in place is BAD for overseas work. When I worked with Heifer, the main missionaries were Quaker, Methodist and Disciples of Christ but they ALL worked for Heifer's developmental goals.

As for the care of his family, most solid mission organizations now limit family sizes for missionaries, because most organizations are committed that if something goes wrong on the mission field, they will evacuate the family and they cannot financially afford to do that with large numbers of Americans, especially children, on the ground. That alone ought to tell you the foolhardy nature of Shrader's game. He and Esther cannot possibly care for a family that size AND do the work that they should be doing if they are going to be IN Zambia in the first place. Heavily pregnant women are typically kept stateside, or from that area of Africa would possibly be housed closer with top-notch medical care. They are not typically allowed in the field while that pregnant, much less starting there. It's stupid and irresponsible to do that. It places Esther AND her unborn child in significant risk.

My grandmother nearly died from Typhoid. My grandfather was a diplomat and not a missionary. She had access to the very best medical care where they were stationed and it still nearly killed her. Going overseas without our vaccines was NEVER an option for my family. Even so, we went before the HepA vaccine existed. My own sister nearly died of HepA. The janitor of her school was refilling the children's bottled water from the tap. They did not understand that while the tap water was fully safe for themselves as a local, it was NOT safe for the missionary children. My most vivid memory from my childhood in Latin America was my sister being carried, sick and pale, to have an abbreviated Christmas celebration with the family and too sick to do the full celebration.

I have personally had food poisoning on the Amazon. It was a terrifying experience, and I was terribly grateful for the healthcare available in Brazil and their knowledge of how to treat me quickly, it was not something I would have voluntarily incurred and deeply regretted not checking harder for produce on the sandwich that made me sick. It was a slice of tomato from a street vendor that did me in, ONE SLICE.

I'm not aware of long-term treatment options to avoid malaria. I haven't traveled in several years so maybe there's something I don't know about that has come out since I was traveling. As missionaries, we were always stuck with the local risks for malaria, because the treatment options could not be maintained long-term or were harsh on the liver. Beyond that, there is just NO excuse for not protecting his family as much as possible. There's a reason people keep referencing The Poisonwood Bible. It's very apropos for this situation.

Thank you for reminding us that there is still nobility in mission work . People like John Shrader are a boil on the butt of this worthy endeavor, they go out to push their narrow agenda and feed their enormous egos and for some reason people are helping them do it. I just don't understand it, it seems like common sence would tell people how wrong what he is doing really is. Are people really so far removed and insensitive to real poverty and suffering that they don't realize what is really needed in the mission field?

[Marianne]

The Mennonites are the first to come and the last to leave.

During the AZF (September 21, 2001, explosion of a factory in my town that killed 30 people and left 2,500 injured, and hundred of houses destroyed), the scientology church and the Jehovah's Witnesses were also the first to come and the last to leave. And they are two cults.

I do not trust people who are there as a missionary. When the Catholic Church in my city helped us after AZF, she never said she did i on the name of the Catholic Church or the Christ. Because of that thing that everyone forgets : secularism.

[nelliebelle1197]

There was Lydia of Purple. Her children were older but she did have one daughter with special needs plus several daughters who weren't married off yet. Her husband remarried quickly if I recall although I can't remember many details about the woman. Just that she was a lot younger then him.

Feberin, I am going through the archives reading about Lydia of Purple. I even found the old website. WOW! Do you know anything else about this family?I noticed you were very active in the thread from '05.

[Justme]

So, how is John Boy doing? Any news? I wonder what they are living with since their container is probably in the middle of the ocean, or sitting in a US port, waiting for available ship space.

[slickcat79]

They move into the house in Kafue, and refinished a table so now they have a piece of furniture. They were getting "chewed up" by mosquitoes, so after a long search John found some "flimsy" nets to put up over the mattresses on the floor :| Also, they have all been getting colds. Prayers requested.

John has given out a couple of bibles. He still wants the opportunity to get the (unfinished) "house on the hill" now that the owner is back in the country.

[ViolaSebastian]

They move into the house in Kafue, and refinished a table so now they have a piece of furniture. They were getting "chewed up" by mosquitoes, so after a long search John found some "flimsy" nets to put up over the mattresses on the floor :| Also, they have all been getting colds. Prayers requested.

John has given out a couple of bibles. He still wants the opportunity to get the (unfinished) "house on the hill" now that the owner is back in the country.

Anddd the countdown to malaria begins. Seriously, if I were these people, I would have packed the mosquito nets IN my carry-on luggage. But that takes a bit of planning and foresight, doesn't it? :cry: :( :roll:

[SPHASH]

Malaria symptoms. mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/malaria/basics/symptoms/con-20013734

[Justme]

Anddd the countdown to malaria begins. Seriously, if I were these people, I would have packed the mosquito nets IN my carry-on luggage. But that takes a bit of planning and foresight, doesn't it? :cry: :( :roll:

Please tell me they are ALL taking malaria medicine. :cry:

Ebola is also spreading. http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-ne ... ay-n137081

[ViolaSebastian]

Please tell me they are ALL taking malaria medicine. :cry:

No...no vaccines, no anti-malaria medication. John thinks it's too expensive. :cry:

[merrily]

At least malaria is treatable... Just imagine him going to West Africa where the ebola virus is going rampant. :? I just hope he/Esther gets the medicine the children needs.

[Justme]

No...no vaccines, no anti-malaria medication. John thinks it's too expensive. :cry:

Right, he can buy a plane and fancy car, but no medicine or vaccines for the kids. :pull-hair: We all know that John is a stupid, selfish fool. I just don't understand how all these people can fund his "adventure" knowing the children aren't protected. How could they live with themselves if one of the kids becomes very ill or dies. :pull-hair: :pull-hair: