Jill Duggar and Derick Dillard Engaged! - Part 2

[Toothfairy]

I can't imagine that Derick originally contacted Jim Bob in the hopes of eventually marrying one of his daughters--none of whom he'd met--while pretending it was just for a prayer partner. The amount of planning and level of deceit that would require is practically sociopathic, and even the anti-brain trust that is Jim Bob would have gotten some seriously creepy vibes from him.

As for him being a virgin...I tend to doubt it unless he turned fundie before college, but it's certainly possible. But there's no way he's never kissed. That said, would it matter to the Duggars? Aren't fundies big on being "born again" through Christ? Not that hypocrisy isn't rampant, but as long as he's been on his best behavior since becoming fundie and has renounced his past "sins" I'm guessing virginity by itself wouldn't be a huge issue.

It is possible to stay a virgin all throughout your 20s even 30s. As for kissing I doubt Jill is his first kiss. Nothing wrong with kissing to regular Christians but fundies think it's giving away pieces of your heart. I also doubt he will turn fundie. He's 25 a grown man with a college degree from a real college. I don't think JB scares him.

[Toothfairy]

Someone on Duggar tumblr asked if Jill will be Derick's 1st kiss. According to what they heard...Jill will be his 1st. I guess I'm a little disappointed because I wanted proof that "maybe" it really didn't matter. So I'm curious if Jill was already falling for him BEFORE the 3 page courtship questions. Derick is 24. He said he started corresponding with JB 2 years ago. That would give him plenty of praying time to hold on to his virginity and kisses for a Duggar girl if he "really" believed he had a chance. On their wedding page it sounds like he had his eye for Jill for a while...and was praying about her :think:

Someone is lying. Either Jim Bob or Derrick. The whole story doesn't add up.

[lascuba]

It is possible to stay a virgin all throughout your 20s even 30s. As for kissing I doubt Jill is his first kiss. Nothing wrong with kissing to regular Christians but fundies think it's giving away pieces of your heart. I also doubt he will turn fundie. He's 25 a grown man with a college degree from a real college. I don't think JB scares him.

He's not fundie already? I had assumed he was with the missionary stuff and the prayer partner and the courting. Why else would he get engaged to a woman without ever having had an unsupervised conversation with her? That's not normal for anyone but a fundie.

[LittleOleMe]

He's not fundie already? I had assumed he was with the missionary stuff and the prayer partner and the courting. Why else would he get engaged to a woman without ever having had an unsupervised conversation with her? That's not normal for anyone but a fundie.

I've been friends with this one girl for over twenty years. She's always been religious but never to that extreme. Ever. She never had an issue with kissing boys although she never did it. (She's not nearing her 27th birthday and has never even had a relationship. More on that later) She was a very conservative christian. She wore modest clothing (although her body type almost mandated it) and I don't think I've ever seen her in a swim suit. She prays constantly and would do the whole raising your hand while singing the praises of Jesus thing. She has since moved to California and become a vegan (which is very surprising to me bc her mom would always try to get me to eat squid - Italian new years thing apparently - even though I was a vegetarian) and now identifies as a pansexual or post-sexual. She's always been supportive of me and never judged me for "living in sin" with my partner and our two children. She's very accepting and kind. But ever since I've known her, she's always wanted to be a missionary. Always. She wanted to get a nursing degree or actually become a doctor and do missionary work over seas. My point in all this is that you don't have to be a fundie to be a missionary and have prayer partners. He may just really like Jill and is respecting her boundaries. It's extremely possible.

[Toothfairy]

He's not fundie already? I had assumed he was with the missionary stuff and the prayer partner and the courting. Why else would he get engaged to a woman without ever having had an unsupervised conversation with her? That's not normal for anyone but a fundie.

He could be faking it just like Ben. These fundie courtships don't last very long. Jill has only known Derrick for five months and in less than two getting married. I don't think he's going to associate himself with Gothard. He's a grown man with a life of his own.

[singsingsing]

I honestly think that for most young people, men especially, it would take some specific circumstances to reach the age of 25 without having kissed anyone:

1)extreme religious devotion in addition to constant and intrusive supervision.

2)a very low libido.

3)having some kind of emotional or psychological issue.

Any one of those or a combination, but simply having a belief without over-the-top enforcement from others isn't going to cut it. No sex, fine (though I really do believe that people who are still virgins after a certain age (assuming they're not lying, bc so many lie) just don't have much of a sex drive which allows them to smugly insist that everyone wait); but no kissing? Something's up. Sure there will be exceptions, but why assume zebras when horses are more likely, kwim?

Have you ever been a virgin 'after a certain age'? If not, how would you know whether most of them are lying or have a low sex drive? You know 'virgins of a certain age' aren't mythological creatures (nor are people who have never kissed after a certain age, for that matter). Maybe you could ask them whether they're all lying or asexual before you make ridiculous and, quite frankly, insulting assumptions.

[Kira]

He could be faking it just like Ben. These fundie courtships don't last very long. Jill has only known Derrick for five months and in less than two getting married. I don't think he's going to associate himself with Gothard. He's a grown man with a life of his own.

There are grown men who've left high paying careers to follow Gothard. Many of them have college degrees. I don't think Derrick(or Ben) is faking anything. He seem very religious and conservative.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

It is possible but unlikely that he has never kissed. Even fundie lights in Christian club at public school kiss and date. Perhaps he has repented? His brother has a girlfriend and she's also a college grad, was in a sorority, wears short shorts, and they spend the weekend together and "road trip" while still being conservatives.

[lascuba]

Have you ever been a virgin 'after a certain age'? If not, how would you know whether most of them are lying or have a low sex drive? You know 'virgins of a certain age' aren't mythological creatures (nor are people who have never kissed after a certain age, for that matter). Maybe you could ask them whether they're all lying or asexual before you make ridiculous and, quite frankly, insulting assumptions.

I've actually known plenty of older virgins. My assumptions are far from ridiculous. Most of those that aren't super religious and aren't lying about it to save face (and I don't know ATI type fundies but SO MANY religious people lie about this. So many.) either have some issues or are just not that interested in sex. It's basic human biology. It's why abstinence education does not work--people will have sex. We will. We have hormones. We have sex organs. We experience sexual desire. In most--not all, but most--cases, it takes something pretty extreme to reach 30 without having been sexual.

[Mama Mia]

I've actually known plenty of older virgins. My assumptions are far from ridiculous. Most of those that aren't super religious and aren't lying about it to save face (and I don't know ATI type fundies but SO MANY religious people lie about this. So many.) either have some issues or are just not that interested in sex. It's basic human biology. It's why abstinence education does not work--people will have sex. We will. We have hormones. We have sex organs. We experience sexual desire. In most--not all, but most--cases, it takes something pretty extreme to reach 30 without having been sexual.

I don't, personally, know anyone who was a virgin past their teens ( as far as I know, obviously not everyone shares this info), but I can still certainly imagine that there are plenty of perfectly well adjusted, sexual people who just haven't happened to have had any sort of romantic or sexual contact at 20 or 30 or even older. Some people are shy, or don't meet a lot of people, or haven't met someone they care enough about to kiss, let aone have sex with. People do have hormones, and Lord knows I let my hormones and chemistry make waaaayyyy too many decisions for me. Some people have sexual libido, but don't let that guide them...so if they haven't met the "right" person they won't act on it. Nothing wrong or weird about that! Certainly would have saved me oceans of trouble if I'd had the same attitude.

[Toothfairy]

I've actually known plenty of older virgins. My assumptions are far from ridiculous. Most of those that aren't super religious and aren't lying about it to save face (and I don't know ATI type fundies but SO MANY religious people lie about this. So many.) either have some issues or are just not that interested in sex. It's basic human biology. It's why abstinence education does not work--people will have sex. We will. We have hormones. We have sex organs. We experience sexual desire. In most--not all, but most--cases, it takes something pretty extreme to reach 30 without having been sexual.

I was a virgin until 32. I didn't have issues or a low sex drive, in fact I did think about sex from time to time. Nothing wrong with that unless you act on it. I was taught abstinence only education by my high school, church and parents. So I think it does work for some kids but it's not a one size fit all. My husband was also taught about abstinence only education and was also a virgin until marriage at age 33. We both attend college and dated for four years so I think it is possible. You can't put everyone in one boat.

[Toothfairy]

I don't, personally, know anyone who was a virgin past their teens ( as far as I know, obviously not everyone shares this info), but I can still certainly imagine that there are plenty of perfectly well adjusted, sexual people who just haven't happened to have had any sort of romantic or sexual contact at 20 or 30 or even older. Some people are shy, or don't meet a lot of people, or haven't met someone they care enough about to kiss, let aone have sex with. People do have hormones, and Lord knows I let my hormones and chemistry make waaaayyyy too many decisions for me. Some people have sexual libido, but don't let that guide them...so if they haven't met the "right" person they won't act on it. Nothing wrong or weird about that! Certainly would have saved me oceans of trouble if I'd had the same attitude.

Agreed! I really wasn't interested in sex in high school. Even if I did attend a catholic school. I was more focused on my studies than boys. My husband was a virgin until 33. He was really shy and awkward. Didn't date or get out much until he met me four years back. I think everyone experiences certain things differently.

[fiery redhead]

She has already changed her name to Jill Dillard on Twitter. I don't blame her.

[Miggy]

WTF is this?

[Katydid]

WTF is this?

I've seen variations of that engagement photo done a number of times, all over pinterest. All it means is that Jill spends a lot of time on there and has probably been planning her wedding for a while, despite the relatively short engagement.

[CatNap]

I spotted this on the couple's TheKnot guest book. I bet it's a FJer :lol:

[Miggy]

I've seen variations of that engagement photo done a number of times, all over pinterest. All it means is that Jill spends a lot of time on there and has probably been planning her wedding for a while, despite the relatively short engagement.

That explains but does not excuse it! It's so ... blah. I guess I just don't understand cutesy stuff.

I'd love to ask Jim Bob about giving pieces of your heart away versus having a man steal your entire heart.

[lascuba]

I was a virgin until 32. I didn't have issues or a low sex drive, in fact I did think about sex from time to time. Nothing wrong with that unless you act on it. I was taught abstinence only education by my high school, church and parents. So I think it does work for some kids but it's not a one size fit all. My husband was also taught about abstinence only education and was also a virgin until marriage at age 33. We both attend college and dated for four years so I think it is possible. You can't put everyone in one boat.

Then you fall under the extremely religious type, which was on my list.

Look, I'm not saying it's some horrible thing to have had sex by a certain age. What I am saying is that in most cases--again not all, I never said all--something's up beyond "it just hasn't happened yet." And if a man has managed a public school education, 4 years at a normal college, international travel, and not even kissed a woman? THAT is extreme.

[nausicaa]

Have you ever been a virgin 'after a certain age'? If not, how would you know whether most of them are lying or have a low sex drive? You know 'virgins of a certain age' aren't mythological creatures (nor are people who have never kissed after a certain age, for that matter). Maybe you could ask them whether they're all lying or asexual before you make ridiculous and, quite frankly, insulting assumptions.

I have to say, the older I get and the more people get honest about who they are/what they've done, the more I discover people who are virgins at older ages. I have several friends who I know are virgins, and several I strongly suspect of being so (I'm not going to ask since it's none of my damn business), and none of them are seriously religious at all. Of the confirmed virgins, one has high-functioning Asperger's and developed socially a bit later, one is more traditional (doesn't like clubbing, drinking, etc) and is shy, and one seems more interested in her career and doesn't seem to want to settle. I'm also friends with several Mormons who aren't married and are in their late 20s, early 30s. I do think having a lower sex drive probably makes it easier to be a virgin well into adulthood, but that doesn't mean it's a prerequisite.

I'm really shy and haven't been on a date for a long time, though I lost my virginity at the relatively "standard" age of 17 with my then college-aged boyfriend. But if I hadn't dated him, I could see myself still possibly being a virgin now in my late twenties.*

*Why the hell do I overshare so much here?

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

There are grown men who've left high paying careers to follow Gothard. Many of them have college degrees. I don't think Derrick(or Ben) is faking anything. He seem very religious and conservative.

Jill and Derick started courting in November. Derick was no where to be seen during the wedding that happened in December. If he wanted to follow Gothard, I'm pretty sure he would have been there. Especially considering the fact that Gothard himself was there.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I've actually known plenty of older virgins. My assumptions are far from ridiculous. Most of those that aren't super religious and aren't lying about it to save face (and I don't know ATI type fundies but SO MANY religious people lie about this. So many.) either have some issues or are just not that interested in sex. It's basic human biology. It's why abstinence education does not work--people will have sex. We will. We have hormones. We have sex organs. We experience sexual desire. In most--not all, but most--cases, it takes something pretty extreme to reach 30 without having been sexual.

Abstinence only doesn't work for the same reason that prohibition doesn't work: because you tell someone not to. If you give them all the information and let them decide for themselves, then they can CHOOSE to go longer without sexual interactions. I have a friend who DESIRES to have sex but won't until marriage. She's currently 28. There is NOTHING wrong with her.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

WTF is this?

It's a very popular thing on Pinterest. Which is why I firmly believe that she has one, but not under her name.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I have an absurd amount of towels in my house because my ex would use 3 towels per shower and wouldn't reuse a towel even once. I would either be constantly washing towels, or I needed a surplus.

And that is why I have 10 full-sized bath towels in a home that only has 1 person.

I never run out of clean towels though!

Now I'm seriously wondering if I'm married to your ex. Mr. R&M does the exact same thing, and it drives me absolutely CRAZY. We wouldn't do half as much laundry if he would just reuse a freakin' towel once in awhile, and why does my husband need 2-3 towels to take a bath?! :lol:

About Jill's registry, a big part of the fun of being a new bride is browsing the housewares and setting up a registry. My guess is that she's thinking of two things right now, a) huge amounts of linens for when her family comes to visit, and b) everything else in general that happens to catch her eye and look pretty or useful in a new home.

I enjoy cooking, so when I first got married, I bought lots of different appliances so I could try different recipes. As it turned out, I didn't even use most of the fancy food choppers/pie makers, etc. Many of my recipes I didn't even make consistently enough to warrant keeping such appliances around. They'd get used maybe once or twice, then just gather dust. Jill may spend some time weeding through returns, exchanges and even regift some items. I hope she gives some careful thought to anything she likes to use for cooking right now so she doesn't wind up with a bunch of extra junk she was to worry about storing and getting rid of later.

[twinmama]

I honestly think that for most young people, men especially, it would take some specific circumstances to reach the age of 25 without having kissed anyone:

1)extreme religious devotion in addition to constant and intrusive supervision.

2)a very low libido.

3)having some kind of emotional or psychological issue.

Any one of those or a combination, but simply having a belief without over-the-top enforcement from others isn't going to cut it. No sex, fine (though I really do believe that people who are still virgins after a certain age (assuming they're not lying, bc so many lie) just don't have much of a sex drive which allows them to smugly insist that everyone wait); but no kissing? Something's up. Sure there will be exceptions, but why assume zebras when horses are more likely, kwim?

Not a man, but I somehow made it to 25 before I kissed a guy. Atheist, normal libido, no issues other than shyness. Just didn't happen and I wasn't crazed about making it happen unnaturally. At 25 I met a guy in grad school, we dated for a few months, kissed and made out, broke up. Met my husband a year later, kissed, had sex (at 26! first time! still nothing "wrong" with me), married a few years after.

I have no idea whether Derick has kissed someone or had sex, but its not difficult to not do it. Sometimes the situation just doesn't present itself. I spent 90% of my high school time at gymnastics practice, no dudes there, and the rest doing homework.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Now I'm seriously wondering if I'm married to your ex. Mr. R&M does the exact same thing, and it drives me absolutely CRAZY. We wouldn't do half as much laundry if he would just reuse a freakin' towel once in awhile, and why does my husband need 2-3 towels to take a bath?! :lol:

About Jill's registry, a big part of the fun of being a new bride is browsing the housewares and setting up a registry. My guess is that she's thinking of two things right now, a) huge amounts of linens for when her family comes to visit, and b) everything else in general that happens to catch her eye and look pretty or useful in a new home.

I enjoy cooking, so when I first got married, I bought lots of different appliances so I could try different recipes. As it turned out, I didn't even use most of the fancy food choppers/pie makers, etc. Many of my recipes I didn't even make consistently enough to warrant keeping such appliances around. They'd get used maybe once or twice, then just gather dust. Jill may spend some time weeding through returns, exchanges and even regift some items. I hope she gives some careful thought to anything she likes to use for cooking right now so she doesn't wind up with a bunch of extra junk she was to worry about storing and getting rid of later.

My parents had that problem with a lot of their registry items. A LOT of things followed us move to move but were never used. Then, when I was 22 or 23, I got into cooking. I've since inherited all the appliances they never used. And I use them all the time. Haha