Jill Duggar and Derick Dillard Engaged! - Part 2

[Jessica]

My husband didn't kiss anyone until he was 28 and it was about 30 seconds after he asked me to marry him.

[Georgiana]

Now I'm seriously wondering if I'm married to your ex. Mr. R&M does the exact same thing, and it drives me absolutely CRAZY. We wouldn't do half as much laundry if he would just reuse a freakin' towel once in awhile, and why does my husband need 2-3 towels to take a bath?! :lol:

About Jill's registry, a big part of the fun of being a new bride is browsing the housewares and setting up a registry. My guess is that she's thinking of two things right now, a) huge amounts of linens for when her family comes to visit, and b) everything else in general that happens to catch her eye and look pretty or useful in a new home.

I enjoy cooking, so when I first got married, I bought lots of different appliances so I could try different recipes. As it turned out, I didn't even use most of the fancy food choppers/pie makers, etc. Many of my recipes I didn't even make consistently enough to warrant keeping such appliances around. They'd get used maybe once or twice, then just gather dust. Jill may spend some time weeding through returns, exchanges and even regift some items. I hope she gives some careful thought to anything she likes to use for cooking right now so she doesn't wind up with a bunch of extra junk she was to worry about storing and getting rid of later.

Oh goodness, I hope not! We only ended things about 5 months ago, so unless your marriage was quick even by fundie terms... :)

But I do feel your pain. Why does he even need a special towel for his head?!? He has super short hair! I don't and I have long hair!

I'm glad someone else does it though. I seriously thought my ex was the only person in the world who would do that!

[louisa05]

It occurs to me that perhaps Jill is just carried away by the notion of having stuff that belongs to HER and not to everyone else, too.

[lascuba]

Guys. I never said every single older virgin is religious or has issues. I know there are plenty of virgins who it just worked out that way because they hadn't met anyone they wanted to have sex with, etc. Hell, that could easily have been me since I'm an introvert and have a hard time meeting people and don't like most people I meet, anyway. :twisted: What I am saying is that in the majority (that's more than 50% of people) of cases there's likely something going on. For people who haven't even kissed, even more likely. If you tell me that's not the case for you, I believe you.

[Coconut Flan]

My few cents. I worked with a guy who died a virgin at 45. I think he might have wanted to get involved with someone but I can't imagine who would have wanted to do so. He was definitely different, lived at home with mom, thought he deserved a 10 and should have been happy to entice a 2 to date.

My dearly departed always used at least two towels per shower and he couldn't reuse towels either. I had a shelf of rather cheap towels just for him. They dried much faster than nice fluffy ones. The water bill dropped in half when he was no longer showering and contributing so many towels to the laundry. As an added bonus, he frequently showered twice a day.

[Rachel333]

I know plenty of people who were virgins until marriage and who I wouldn't necessarily call fundie, just your average conservative Southern Evangelicals. The women work and go to college and wear pants and everything, but they also don't believe in sex until marriage. I'm pretty sure that's why so many of them get married so quickly once they're in their first serious relationship, but I wouldn't find a 25-year-old virgin odd at all in that group, even after 4 years of college. Probably some do lie about it, but given the tearful confessions I've heard guys make about offenses as slight as just looking at pornography, I'm inclined to think many really are honest. Sinning and then repenting and asking for forgiveness gives you a better testimony anyway, so you often hear a lot about past sins.

I will say that a non-fundie 25-year-old man who has never kissed before would surprise me quite a bit more, but it wouldn't really have occurred to me to doubt that he's a virgin if he says he is. I know it's practically unheard of in some groups, but I think it's pretty normal among Evangelicals. I think spending a lot of time in the mission field would make it more likely that he'd be a virgin too since most of the other Americans he'd be in contact with would share the same beliefs and, being missionaries, would feel very strongly about them as well.

[Toothfairy]

Then you fall under the extremely religious type, which was on my list.

Look, I'm not saying it's some horrible thing to have had sex by a certain age. What I am saying is that in most cases--again not all, I never said all--something's up beyond "it just hasn't happened yet." And if a man has managed a public school education, 4 years at a normal college, international travel, and not even kissed a woman? THAT is extreme.

I don't really see your point? I'm a bit confused. What's so extreme about it? It does and can happen.

[paganhomeschooler]

I've actually known plenty of older virgins. My assumptions are far from ridiculous. Most of those that aren't super religious and aren't lying about it to save face (and I don't know ATI type fundies but SO MANY religious people lie about this. So many.) either have some issues or are just not that interested in sex. It's basic human biology. It's why abstinence education does not work--people will have sex. We will. We have hormones. We have sex organs. We experience sexual desire. In most--not all, but most--cases, it takes something pretty extreme to reach 30 without having been sexual.

My SIL just turned 30 and has never dated, never had a boyfriend, never had sex, never had a job, has no license, and is a SAHD. She was valedictorian of her class and got high honors in college. She's an atheist. It can happen. We keep joking about buying her a vibrator and a man-whore for Xmas. lol

[paganhomeschooler]

Oh goodness, I hope not! We only ended things about 5 months ago, so unless your marriage was quick even by fundie terms... :)

But I do feel your pain. Why does he even need a special towel for his head?!? He has super short hair! I don't and I have long hair!

I'm glad someone else does it though. I seriously thought my ex was the only person in the world who would do that!

My mom does it, too! In fact, I think she may use 4. Drives me insane when we go to hotels. The 4 kids and I can use the towels that are in the bathroom. My mom has to get a whole separate set just for her, and god forbid anyone use one! One time, there was a cleaning cart parked in the hallway when we went swimming, so she thought she'd be smart and grab a stack of towels. Turns out, she grabbed a stack of the bathroom rugs! lol She still had to go get more towels.

[Mama Mia]

My SIL just turned 30 and has never dated, never had a boyfriend, never had sex, never had a job, has no license, and is a SAHD. She was valedictorian of her class and got high honors in college. She's an atheist. It can happen. We keep joking about buying her a vibrator and a man-whore for Xmas. lol

I wonder if the Internet and social media and gaming has had an impact on the number of adults who have never had a romantic and/ or sexual relationship?

I could see it going either way - increased access to a wide variety of people from a broader area leading to increased chances to connect with someone interesting - OR- almost all socializing being virtual, so not as much motivation for real life contact.

[daniee]

why do people think that Jana liked Chad Paine? Did I miss something?

My bet is on late August, early September for Jill's wedding and that it will be a big one with loads of things to prepare, therefore not June or July. I'm so happy for Jill Dill.

Jill Dill, like a pickle.

[thepinkleprechaun]

My husband was 26 and had only kissed a girl (ONCE) before we got together. He's an atheist too lol! It definitely wasn't because he didn't WANT to have sex. He actually never even had a girlfriend, didn't have the opportunity I guess.

[paganhomeschooler]

I wonder if the Internet and social media and gaming has had an impact on the number of adults who have never had a romantic and/ or sexual relationship?

I could see it going either way - increased access to a wide variety of people from a broader area leading to increased chances to connect with someone interesting - OR- almost all socializing being virtual, so not as much motivation for real life contact.

Well, I know just about the only social contact she has is through FB to people other than family. She seems to WANT to have a family, but she also doesn't do anything about it. Plus, she has lived under a repressive father her whole life. Last summer, she was so proud because she was sneaky and chopped off about 6 inches of hair an inch at a time because it was 100 degrees for a month, and daddy-dearest didn't notice because of the gradualness of the cut. We tried to give her a car when she graduated college so she could get a job, but it wasn't a brand new Trailblazer, so she didn't want it. She looked for jobs in her major but said no one wanted to pay her enough right out of school with no experience, so she eventually stopped looking. Now, the 3 of them just hang around the house all day, for the most part. I feel really bad for her, but we've tried to help, and it did no good.

[Hisey]

I can think of lots of reasons a person might not kiss until their mid-20's: religious upbringing, extreme shyness, lack of opportunity (attending a girls school for example), heavy involvement in athletics (where you are touring or training all the times), extreme unattractiveness, controlling parents, cultural reasons, immaturity, confusion about sexual orientation, trauma (physical sexual abuse victims) etc.

[mockingbird]

I feel really uncomfortable pathologizing something like not kissing until your 20s. Especially when, in the AYTM section, we've had a number of threads by members who are in that age group and unsure about starting their first romantic relationships, and are met with plenty of compassion and reassurance that they aren't abnormal.

Note: Not trying to say something like being asexual or having a low libido is abnormal/unhealthy, unless it's something that bothers that person.

I just think it's not as uncommon as you might think as someone who's actually in their mid-20s... I'd say a lot of it is maybe a temporary lack of interest. Like all of my friends are hyperfocused on their grad school or careers, and while I would say we all have pretty normal social lives, few want to even take time out to start a new relationship. If it hasn't happened for them yet it's probably not going to be something they actively pursue until they feel more stable in their life situation. I also think things "moved up" age-wise, to where a significant portion of people in my high school did not have any romantic relationships - I'd say at least half - and that happened for the first time more in college. So the people who are "late bloomers" now would be the mid-20s group, and I think a lot of people don't even want to consider getting married or in a serious relationship until their late 20s now, so if casual dating isn't your thing, you will just have more options for like-minded partners either online (eta: actively seeking that out which I did do last year but yep, don't feel like I had the time for keeping up with it), or as you get older.

[bal maiden]

So it seems that Jill's midwifery instructor is wedding dress shopping in DC with Jill and others, and that she is also coordinating the wedding. I am disproportionately pleased that Jill has a good friend outside the family, and moreover is having that friend involved in wedding planning - hopefully this will keep Michelle at arms' length, and allow Jill to have what she and Derick want.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

So it seems that Jill's midwifery instructor is wedding dress shopping in DC with Jill and others, and that she is also coordinating the wedding. I am disproportionately pleased that Jill has a good friend outside the family, and moreover is having that friend involved in wedding planning - hopefully this will keep Michelle at arms' length, and allow Jill to have what she and Derick want.

Does TLC have a wedding dress show based in DC? If not, DC seems kinda random.

[LogansMama]

It's a very popular thing on Pinterest. Which is why I firmly believe that she has one, but not under her name.

This actually makes a lot of sense.

I used to not be able to stand Jill. I thought she was a rube who had drank too much kool-aid, but she's changed a lot. I think the fact that she's been exposed to a diverse (aka worldly!) group of people due to midwifery has been good to her. She's still very much into her religion, but she seems so much more open-minded and accepting of anything non-fundie. And I absolutely adore her and D together!

[singsingsing]

Guys. I never said every single older virgin is religious or has issues. I know there are plenty of virgins who it just worked out that way because they hadn't met anyone they wanted to have sex with, etc. Hell, that could easily have been me since I'm an introvert and have a hard time meeting people and don't like most people I meet, anyway. :twisted: What I am saying is that in the majority (that's more than 50% of people) of cases there's likely something going on. For people who haven't even kissed, even more likely. If you tell me that's not the case for you, I believe you.

I would really be careful making that kind of assumption. The vast majority of older virgins don't go around discussing the whys and hows of their situation. The ones who talk about it the most are the ones who, like fundies, fetishize and obsess over virginity.

[lascuba]

I feel really uncomfortable pathologizing something like not kissing until your 20s. Especially when, in the AYTM section, we've had a number of threads by members who are in that age group and unsure about starting their first romantic relationships, and are met with plenty of compassion and reassurance that they aren't abnormal.

Note: Not trying to say something like being asexual or having a low libido is abnormal/unhealthy, unless it's something that bothers that person.

I just think it's not as uncommon as you might think as someone who's actually in their mid-20s... I'd say a lot of it is maybe a temporary lack of interest. Like all of my friends are hyperfocused on their grad school or careers, and while I would say we all have pretty normal social lives, few want to even take time out to start a new relationship. If it hasn't happened for them yet it's probably not going to be something they actively pursue until they feel more stable in their life situation. I also think things "moved up" age-wise, to where a significant portion of people in my high school did not have any romantic relationships - I'd say at least half - and that happened for the first time more in college. So the people who are "late bloomers" now would be the mid-20s group, and I think a lot of people don't even want to consider getting married or in a serious relationship until their late 20s now, so if casual dating isn't your thing, you will just have more options for like-minded partners either online (eta: actively seeking that out which I did do last year but yep, don't feel like I had the time for keeping up with it), or as you get older.

You know, I hadn't really considered that I was pathologizing anyone, but yes, saying "issues" definitely implies that. What I was really getting at was that those well into their 20s who haven't kissed anyone are outliers, and what the most likely explanations would be. Religion/extreme supervision, "issues" like emotional delays or simply being really shy, etc., or low libido. And a lot of that comes from me reacting towards the abstinence until marriage crowd--those who insist that since they waited until they were 25+ that anyone can do it, when it seems to me that the reason those people could wait was that it was easier for them to do so that it is for most people.

[Katydid]

I don't really see your point? I'm a bit confused. What's so extreme about it? It does and can happen.

Exactly. My SIL is 26, went to a normal college, and has kissed and made out with guys, and gone out to bars, but she absolutely believes that sex is for marriage only. She wears jeans, drinks beer, loves The Avengers, even reads fanfic, and has a job. However, she's also absolutely firm in her Catholic beliefs. This isn't unusual, and it doesn't mean that someone has issues.

[twinmama]

I would really be careful making that kind of assumption. The vast majority of older virgins don't go around discussing the whys and hows of their situation. The ones who talk about it the most are the ones who, like fundies, fetishize and obsess over virginity.

This is a good point. While I was totally okay with being a virgin til 26, I never discussed it with anyone! Even now I probably wouldn't talk about it with friends, even though I'm totally open about sex and whatnot in conversations. Its really no one's business and I don't want to answer questions like a sideshow. Also, the answers would be boring. I have a couple friends now that I suspect are still virgins in their 30s, but I'd never ask and they'd never volunteer as its no one's business!! And, none are remotely fundy or even incredibly shy.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

This is a good point. While I was totally okay with being a virgin til 26, I never discussed it with anyone! Even now I probably wouldn't talk about it with friends, even though I'm totally open about sex and whatnot in conversations. Its really no one's business and I don't want to answer questions like a sideshow. Also, the answers would be boring. I have a couple friends now that I suspect are still virgins in their 30s, but I'd never ask and they'd never volunteer as its no one's business!! And, none are remotely fundy or even incredibly shy.

If I hadn't been raped in college and then decided to have sex with a guy I trusted so that sex wouldn't always be a traumatic thing in my eyes, I would probably still be a virgin now. Or I would have been significantly older when I finally had sex the first time.

[lascuba]

Look, if the issue some of you are having with my comments is that you don't think waiting until marriage is extreme, well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. If that makes people happy, great, but I'm not going to pretend the history and social pressure behind that desire doesn't exist.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Look, if the issue some of you are having with my comments is that you don't think waiting until marriage is extreme, well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. If that makes people happy, great, but I'm not going to pretend the history and social pressure behind that desire doesn't exist.

Why does it HAVE to be extreme? Some people aren't comfortable with the idea of having sex just because they're in a relationship. Before I was raped, I had every intention of waiting until I was at least engaged because I didn't see the NEED to have sex and I wanted to be able to completely trust the person I was having sex with. I often wish that I could go back to the days before I was raped and live my life such that I avoided that situation, that way I could truly find someone I love before I gave it up. Not because society told me that I should be that way but because I WANTED to be that way.

I think it's extreme to believe that every person has to have sex by a certain age or they are being constrained by society. That's a really harmful way to look at the world. Everyone is different and everyone has different reasons for why they do what they do. As Golly in Harriet the Spy said "There are as many ways to live in this world as there are people in this world, and each one deserves a closer look."