Bill Gothard Sexual Misconduct Investigation - Part 2

[Rhetorica]

I think this kind of thing is endemic in Christian groups - they feel they have to be nice or hedge things - somehow that is what "speaking the truth in love" means. I think the continued call to repentance bothers me. I understand that as a starting place, but after that, it begins to feed the narcissist. Let's leave the repentance to his conscience and God and instead get the civil authorities involved so that it doesn't happen again. When it stays internal to the Christian-world it becomes this game of how-repentant-is-someone and since we should forgive everyone, let's give him another chance. It's like a narcissist's playground.

ITA. But I think for strategic reasons RG has to use this approach in order to have any legitimacy with the more moderate evangelical crowd. Ideally, another entity would be taking on the bad-cop role of pressing charges, but I'm not holding my breath.

[iknowright]

I think that is correct. They need to deal with this wisely and cautiously. The more moderate evangelicals have mostly never heard of Gothard, or if they have, they don't understand he is a cult leader. The whole point of the t.v shows like the Duggars and rubbing shoulders with political figures is to give ole BG and his followers, movement, methods, etc...credibility. So you don't want a full throttle approach allowing Gothard to have evangelicals (whom really have a complete opposing theology) to come to his defense. I've looked at the RG website and even though it seems like the wheels are slow to turn, I think that should be pointed more toward media outlets than RG. But if there is sexual misconduct including a minor, how is there a statute of limitations? I thought there weren't any when a minor is involved?

[pega127]

Yet...Big Sandy Homeschool Hoe Down is happening with the Duggars leading the show!!!

[iknowright]

Not surprised but infuriated

[Dark Matters]

New post at Recovering Grace with screenshots of BG's teachings on abuse and sexual assault, as in there is no such thing if you're a good Christian woman.

recoveringgrace.org/2014/04/there-is-no-victim-a-survey-of-iblp-literature-on-sexual-assault-and-abuse/

edit:spelling

[thoughtful]

New post at Recovering Grace with screenshots of BG's teachings on abuse and sexual assault, as in there is no such thing if you're a good Christian woman.

recoveringgrace.org/2014/04/there-is-no-victim-a-survey-of-iblp-literature-on-sexual-assault-and-abuse/

So much paper, so many words and charts and complicated ramblings -- sounds like Gothard was trying to keep people busy and confused figuring out his crap.

And the proof-texting involves quotes edited down to a few words at a time. This says it all:

It has been said, only somewhat in jest, that the elimination of access to ellipses would make much of the Institute’s printed output impossible.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Ew, ew, ew.

THIS IS WHY ABUSE IS SO RAMPANT IN FUNDIE COMMUNITIES!

[TrueRebel1]

So glad to see RG lay out exactly what ATI has been teaching about abuse and victims... I think this will open the eyes of some people who have been on the fence about what to think of Gothard!

[apple1]

So glad to see RG lay out exactly what ATI has been teaching about abuse and victims... I think this will open the eyes of some people who have been on the fence about what to think of Gothard!

I totally agree that RG is correct in laying out the problems (wow - that word is not nearly strong enough, but I am at a loss for the right word) with BG's doctrine and teachings. He needs to be taken down for these in and of themselves, because these teachings did and continue to do much harm, and also because they set the stage for the abuse.

[FlorenceHamilton]

Ew, ew, ew.

THIS IS WHY ABUSE IS SO RAMPANT IN FUNDIE COMMUNITIES!

I think abuse is rampant everywhere. That said, sociopath/narcissist/abusers are attracted to organizations and situations that have institutionalized defined power inequities. The Religious Fundamentalists have the added twist of having an institutionalized purity culture. Obsession with sexual purity is the same as any other sexual obsession. It takes over their lives.

I think the saddest thing about the whole movement is that they eschew learning, thinking and experiencing most of what life has to offer, and then for added measure they are obsessed with sex in a way that precludes enjoying it. Too bad for them.

[neuroticcat]

New post at Recovering Grace with screenshots of BG's teachings on abuse and sexual assault, as in there is no such thing if you're a good Christian woman.

recoveringgrace.org/2014/04/there-is-no-victim-a-survey-of-iblp-literature-on-sexual-assault-and-abuse/

edit:spelling

:wtf: That is atrocious. The Why Did God Happen? bit makes me nauseous. It's like a chart for how-to-blame-the-victim.

[MerryHappy]

Ew, ew, ew.

THIS IS WHY ABUSE IS SO RAMPANT IN FUNDIE COMMUNITIES!

The thing about the particular flavor of fundie is that ATIA is all about creating the perfect victim.

If you tell a person they are worthless unless an unseen deity and their authorities say otherwise, strip away any and all rights, and then force them to live in a closed society...yeah, the conditions are ripe for predators-such as Gothard and Phillips.

At this point, I view counter-culture, closed communities as red flags. The Amish or Orthodox Judaism etc.

[formergothardite]

New post at Recovering Grace with screenshots of BG's teachings on abuse and sexual assault, as in there is no such thing if you're a good Christian woman.

recoveringgrace.org/2014/04/there-is-no-victim-a-survey-of-iblp-literature-on-sexual-assault-and-abuse/

edit:spelling

Alfred is coming off as a wee bit unhinged in his comment on this post. I guess he couldn't figure out a way to say "I am totes okay with fathers getting away with molesting their children.", so he just gave this comment that made absolutely no sense.

What does this mean, Greg R? "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof" (2 Timothy 3:5)

"God is alright, just as long as you don't take him too seriously . . . or too literally".

Boy . . . if *I* invented tomatoes, I would most certainly have an opinion on how best to grow them. If I invented clothing, I also would have an opinion on how that works best. You know . . . the engineer to his product?

Again . . . the beautiful thing is that you can reject Bill and what he teaches . . . and you have no-one to answer to but Jesus. I TOO get to accept Bill . . . and what he teaches . . . and I TOO get to answer to Jesus.

This is what Greg R. wrote:

We see in Bill's setup, not at all unique to Bill, an approach to the bible that says "this is God's answer for everything". Maybe even "this is God's complete answer for everything..." This is a huge error, and the next thing you know, GOD is weighing in on how to grow tomatoes... or how curly/straight your hair should be... (I'm staying away from undergarments, other than my own, today, thank you)

this approach takes us down some strange roads, and one of them is a solid distrust of many professionals, especially in the social sciences. these professionals, even if they are christian, will NEVER be 'biblical' enough to suit the 'bible only' way of approaching life. very sad, very avoidable.

Alfred seemed to miss Greg's point with the tomatoes.

[pega127]

I heard from a local friend; Big Sandy was great as ever!

[FlorenceHamilton]

I heard from a local friend; Big Sandy was great as ever!

So basically, sheeple will continue to worship the leader even if he is proven to be false or not proven to exist at all.

[Toothfairy]

:wtf: That is atrocious. The Why Did God Happen? bit makes me nauseous. It's like a chart for how-to-blame-the-victim.

This is disgusting. How in the world can any parent or adult take advice from this man. He's sick

[Rhetorica]

I heard from a local friend; Big Sandy was great as ever!

I've been very curious to hear how the ATI conference went last week. I imagine everyone was warned to keep photos, etc. offline. Or maybe they're self motivated to keep quiet just to avoid being associated with scandal.

[Tesseract]

I lived near Big Sandy for about a year and had NO idea of the can of crazy I was sitting on! :pink-shock:

[countressrascal]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/micah-j-m ... f=religion

Great article regarding Bill Gothard and ATI.

[gustava]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/micah-j-murray/growing-up-in-bill-gothar_b_5228166.html?utm_hp_ref=religion

Great article regarding Bill Gothard and ATI.

Thanks for the link.

[Palimpsest]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/micah-j-murray/growing-up-in-bill-gothar_b_5228166.html?utm_hp_ref=religion

Great article regarding Bill Gothard and ATI.

Oh, good! I'm glad the Huff Puff published that article. It gets a much wider audience.

That's Micah Murray from redemptionpictures.com and I think the link to the blog post was posted here a few weeks ago. He has quite a few excellent articles on his blog if you have time to browse around.

[Letgo]

Does anyone know what is happening with the investigation? Is Bill gone for good? Or will he "repent" and return to his role as cult leader?

The Duggars still have not really addressed this, other than saying they don't follow a man, they follow Jesus. I keep waiting for some big name ATI people to speak out honestly about Bill.

[kjrsg]

Maybe it's because I'm an outsider, but it has always seemed to me as if Gothard is much more of a shadowy background figure than most religious leaders. Because of this, it wouldn't surprise me if he just quietly fades into the background.

I would love to be wrong, though.

[FloraKitty35]

:wtf: That is atrocious. The Why Did God Happen? bit makes me nauseous. It's like a chart for how-to-blame-the-victim.

Victim blaming asshats, what a vile bunch of trash :evil:

[formergothardite]

Maybe it's because I'm an outsider, but it has always seemed to me as if Gothard is much more of a shadowy background figure than most religious leaders. Because of this, it wouldn't surprise me if he just quietly fades into the background.

I would love to be wrong, though.

No, I think you are absolutely right. He will fade into the background where he will still control everything until he dies.