Bill Gothard Sexual Misconduct Investigation - Part 2

[thoughtful]

That is awesome. :D

Thanks. I hesitated, because he is so heinous (in fact, I can't even find it in me to be funny about Doug right now, I'm so disgusted). But sometimes my disgust leads to disdainful humor.

apple1 wrote:

I can't imagine that timing the release of this non-apology "apology" for late evening just before Good Friday was anything other than intentional. Many observant Christians have other priorities Good Friday through Easter Sunday

Yeah, he thinks he's clever. :roll:

edited for riffle

[TrueRebel1]

This post on the Recovering Grace fb page makes my blood boil. I get that this needs to be more than "a couple of ministries bickering against each other". And I get that a lawsuit would make the situation seem more "real". But that doesn't mean that these things didn't happen, or that the women sharing their stories are just bitter women who always had it out for Gothard. See, I doubt that any of the young ATI people go to HQ with the purpose of finding Gothards wrongdoings and find proof of it. They go their completely believing in him...only to find out some time later that he's a two-faced creep. Ugg. I want so badly to respond to this comment on the fb page, but I really doubt it would do any good.

Mandm Murphy

Remember we are innocent until proven guilty in this country for a very good reason. There will always be false accusations by people with ulterior motives. It seems many just want believe it because they are against what he stands for. RG itself has clearly stated they are against his teachings and so really they should not be involved in organizing “witnesses†against him and making “negotiationsâ€. It should be left to a well known reputable organization with no ulterior motives (ie the Peacemakers ministry). It’s interesting that none have used civil authorities in their accusations. Civil authorities take accusations serious and also take false accusations serious. But with RG it’s just a couple ministries bickering with each other, so it’s not so intimidating to throw your hat in the ring.

Mr. Gothard has ministered to close to 2 million people. It would be so easy to get a handfull of girls to make low-grade accusations without a single solitary shred of proof. Some of the accusations are such that someone would have certainly eventually gotten some proof, especially if this happened all the time, as RG seems to be implying. For example, “severely disciplined for my efforts by being confined to my room for weeks, even for mealsâ€, take a video one day of them brining your food or just tell others to be on guard (keep a hidden phone/camera). But this has been going on for decades without proof. Nobody, not even the President, can’t get away with that.

And the accusations are so weird. Footsies, and groping on the way to the airport-it’s just weird. If Gothard was wanting to be immoral he could have been totally immoral. They just don’t match up with common sense unless there’s more to the story. (ie maybe he washed their feet in a group setting and they say he played footsies with them. I’ve seen that in a youth group).I was able to speak with someone who worked at IBLP for several years and knew some of these girls who are making the accusations. Years ago they even asked her to join in their attacks. She says these girls had the appearance of great godliness but are forsaking their conservative values. She has seen the manipulation of facts in a deceptive way. She doesn’t believe their accusations for a second.

[Sola]

Denial of the most egregious charges, yes. But once you get past the Gothardese, he's effectively admitting he's painted himself in a corner.

This. He's either completely naive, don't believe that for a second, or he was doing it for kicks. If my boss wanted to hug, stroke my hair or feet I'd have him up for sexual harassment in a split second. Gothard is not stupid, he preaches purity and how to guard your thoughts. He KNOWS this stuff is sexual. So he isn't naive.

He's a perv. Just like Dougie.

[salex]

In further news, Bill Gothard pledges to do penance for his previous failings by instituting a new part to Journey To the HEart, where he will personally wash the feet of each attendee at the beginning and end of the event.

[ILoveJellybeans]

In further news, Bill Gothard pledges to do penance for his previous failings by instituting a new part to Journey To the HEart, where he will personally wash the feet of each attendee at the beginning and end of the event.

Hahahaha ewwwww

The floor in that room will be so sticky afterwards.

[doggie]

Hahahaha ewwwww

The floor in that room will be so sticky afterwards.

he better wear depends while doing so.

[Tangy Bee]

OMG! I just found out Bill actually "fingered" some of those girls back then. WTH! I don't even want to picture this whole scene. What? What in the world did he say to them to convince them...that it was ok to do that? :disgust: He created a system of no kissing, side hugs, and courtship and other bullshit! I'm SHOCKED he would even KNOW how to finger a female. Hey I don't have a problem with folks who "finger" if that's what both parties WANT. But...this...I gotta go take a drink or nap or something. Fundies are shocking the hell out of me lately...

[Janes Heir]

OMG! I just found out Bill actually "fingered" some of those girls back then. WTH! I don't even want to picture this whole scene. What? What in the world did he say to them to convince them...that it was ok to do that? :disgust: He created a system of no kissing, side hugs, and courtship and other bullshit! I'm SHOCKED he would even KNOW how to finger a female. Hey I don't have a problem with folks who "finger" if that's what both parties WANT. But...this...I gotta go take a drink or nap or something. Fundies are shocking the hell out of me lately...

Is that on Recovering Grace? I don't really keep up with this whole scandal, but this is just the worst. That piece of shit.

[ILoveJellybeans]

On Charlotte's story on Recovering Grace, she said that he touched her vagina.

I went home at the end of October for a week, and Bill called and talked to me daily. I told my mom about what was happening, and she told me I was lying. Bill arranged my flight back to O’Hare so we could ride back to Headquarters in the car together. That’s when he first put his hand between my legs and felt me all the way up.

I wouldn't be surprised if he had touched other girls like that too.

Its not clear how far this went-whether he put his hands underneath her underwear or not, but he still touched her down there.

[Tangy Bee]

Is that on Recovering Grace? I don't really keep up with this whole scandal, but this is just the worst. That piece of shit.

I saw it on Libby Anne's blog.

[Janes Heir]

On Charlotte's story on Recovering Grace, she said that he touched her vagina.

I wouldn't be surprised if he had touched other girls like that too.

Its not clear how far this went-whether he put his hands underneath her underwear or not, but he still touched her down there.

There are no words for how messed up it is that this culture can make mothers automatically assume their daughters are lying over something that would make a normal mother want to rip the guy to shreds. Thanks for the quote, Jellybeans. Not sure I have the stomach to read Charlotte's story right now.

[Letgo]

On Charlotte's story on Recovering Grace, she said that he touched her vagina.

I went home at the end of October for a week, and Bill called and talked to me daily. I told my mom about what was happening, and she told me I was lying. Bill arranged my flight back to O’Hare so we could ride back to Headquarters in the car together. That’s when he first put his hand between my legs and felt me all the way up.

I wouldn't be surprised if he had touched other girls like that too.

Its not clear how far this went-whether he put his hands underneath her underwear or not, but he still touched her down there.

But remember, it wasn't with sexual intent! This guy can out-Clinton Bill Clinton.

[singsingsing]

But remember, it wasn't with sexual intent! This guy can out-Clinton Bill Clinton.

I bet he reads Playboy for the articles.

[ILoveJellybeans]

But remember, it wasn't with sexual intent! This guy can out-Clinton Bill Clinton.

How do you touch someone else's vagina without sexual intent, unless you are a doctor or midwife.

[nolongerIFBx]

OMG! I just found out Bill actually "fingered" some of those girls back then. WTH! I don't even want to picture this whole scene. What? What in the world did he say to them to convince them...that it was ok to do that? :disgust:

[TrueRebel1]

Any thoughts on RG's response to Bill's statement?

recoveringgrace.org/2014/04/response-to-gothards-statement/

[SamuraiKatz]

Any thoughts on RG's response to Bill's statement?

recoveringgrace.org/2014/04/response-to-gothards-statement/

I think RG's response was too nice. Bill Gothard is not sorry. Bill Gothard was never sorry in the past. Bill Gothard will offend again if given the chance.

There are/were a lot of people "in the know" with regards to Bill Gothard's misdeeds and they worked to keep those misdeeds out of the public eye. I think Gothard's not an really an apology statement was prompted by the law suit filed against Doug Phillips is a Tool.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Screw forgiveness, Gothard doesn't feel remorse for his actions, that would require a conscience. I don't think he has one. What they need is someone to file charges against him and take him down. Send him to jail and throw away the key. With Doug Phillips of course. They both need to sit there in jail and face the consequences of their actions....I wonder what would happen if you put them both in a cell together?

If Gothard was a secular employer who was harassing interns and secretaries, including girls as young as 14, he would have been fired a long time ago and would likely have been made to register as a sex offender and have some jail time.

Gothard shouldn't get away with it. He doesn't need a chance to repent before they call the cops and have his ass sent to jail. He will say whatever he needs to, without meaning a word, to avoid being punished. Don't let him talk his way out of it. Even if he is sat in front of them begging for forgiveness and promising never to touch another girl again, you cant un-molest a girl. What has done has been done, and what he did was illegal. Whether he is sorry or not (likely not-hes just sorry he got caught), he still needs to be punished for what he did do already. Sorry does not make it all okay. Its not a magical undo button that makes all bad things go away.

I know they want to try and do the Christian thing, but he is beyond that. The Bible verses they use don't apply to sociopaths/narcissists/psychopaths. Nobody would judge them if they said they didn't care if he was sorry, he still needs to go to jail, and they would do anything they can to make sure he gets the full weight of the law on him. In fact, most people would be thrilled to hear that. Just look at Lourdes-she is filing charges against Doug, and the kind of person that are Recovering Grace's target audience (conservative Christians who are against the Quiverfull brand of fundamentalism) are supporting her and want her to win, and have him taken down and have to face the consequences of his actions. (as well as pretty much everyone else who is not actively kissing Doug's butt).

[nolongerIFBx]

Screw forgiveness, Gothard doesn't feel remorse for his actions, that would require a conscience. I don't think he has one. What they need is someone to file charges against him and take him down. Send him to jail and throw away the key. With Doug Phillips of course. They both need to sit there in jail and face the consequences of their actions....I wonder what would happen if you put them both in a cell together?

If Gothard was a secular employer who was harassing interns and secretaries, including girls as young as 14, he would have been fired a long time ago and would likely have been made to register as a sex offender and have some jail time.

Gothard shouldn't get away with it. He doesn't need a chance to repent before they call the cops and have his ass sent to jail. He will say whatever he needs to, without meaning a word, to avoid being punished. Don't let him talk his way out of it. Even if he is sat in front of them begging for forgiveness and promising never to touch another girl again, you cant un-molest a girl. What has done has been done, and what he did was illegal. Whether he is sorry or not (likely not-hes just sorry he got caught), he still needs to be punished for what he did do already. Sorry does not make it all okay. Its not a magical undo button that makes all bad things go away.

I know they want to try and do the Christian thing, but he is beyond that. The Bible verses they use don't apply to sociopaths/narcissists/psychopaths. Nobody would judge them if they said they didn't care if he was sorry, he still needs to go to jail, and they would do anything they can to make sure he gets the full weight of the law on him. In fact, most people would be thrilled to hear that. Just look at Lourdes-she is filing charges against Doug, and the kind of person that are Recovering Grace's target audience (conservative Christians who are against the Quiverfull brand of fundamentalism) are supporting her and want her to win, and have him taken down and have to face the consequences of his actions. (as well as pretty much everyone else who is not actively kissing Doug's butt).

Lourdes came out of her Doug induced haze before the statute of limitations became an issue. So far everyone who has come forward against BG didn't recover soon enough to be able to file against him. Rumor says there are some (and I don't recall where I saw that), but they won't post to RG and damage their case if they choose to file.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Its sad that there isn't enough that they can do, with it being so long ago. Its not like he has stopped being creepy, its not right that they are just going to let him be in contact with teenage girls and young women just because all of the stories about him molesting them were from years ago. Its not like people wake up in the morning one day and decide they are suddenly done with molestation and are never going to do it again.

I hope one or more of the recent victims decide to press charges against him.

[TrueRebel1]

Screw forgiveness, Gothard doesn't feel remorse for his actions, that would require a conscience. I don't think he has one. What they need is someone to file charges against him and take him down. Send him to jail and throw away the key. With Doug Phillips of course. They both need to sit there in jail and face the consequences of their actions....I wonder what would happen if you put them both in a cell together?

If Gothard was a secular employer who was harassing interns and secretaries, including girls as young as 14, he would have been fired a long time ago and would likely have been made to register as a sex offender and have some jail time.

Gothard shouldn't get away with it. He doesn't need a chance to repent before they call the cops and have his ass sent to jail. He will say whatever he needs to, without meaning a word, to avoid being punished. Don't let him talk his way out of it. Even if he is sat in front of them begging for forgiveness and promising never to touch another girl again, you cant un-molest a girl. What has done has been done, and what he did was illegal. Whether he is sorry or not (likely not-hes just sorry he got caught), he still needs to be punished for what he did do already. Sorry does not make it all okay. Its not a magical undo button that makes all bad things go away.

I know they want to try and do the Christian thing, but he is beyond that. The Bible verses they use don't apply to sociopaths/narcissists/psychopaths. Nobody would judge them if they said they didn't care if he was sorry, he still needs to go to jail, and they would do anything they can to make sure he gets the full weight of the law on him. In fact, most people would be thrilled to hear that. Just look at Lourdes-she is filing charges against Doug, and the kind of person that are Recovering Grace's target audience (conservative Christians who are against the Quiverfull brand of fundamentalism) are supporting her and want her to win, and have him taken down and have to face the consequences of his actions. (as well as pretty much everyone else who is not actively kissing Doug's butt).

I wonder though, if it's not so much that RG wants Bill to "repent" before calling the cops, but that there isn't proper evidence to bring a lawsuit against him? Trust me, I hope there is, but perhaps that's why RG is intent on getting Bill to confess and show repentance?

[LadyPriss]

He didn't touch them with sexual intent. I've heard that somewhere...somewhere along the lines that he did not intend to have p in v sex with them...but everything else was fine.

He tried valiantly it seems to deflect blame to the victim by stating that because he pushed them away and favoured others, the others had an axe to grind and thus the allegations. But it seems it was the favoured side that are turning on him. If David wrote this, well, good job David on your tale.

See, and this is why that numpty is preaching his type of homeschool and internet accountability on every follower. Zero critical thinking skills and no ability to research.

Are these kids not taught the difference between right and wrong when it comes to abuse, or do their parents think the umbrella of protection is so perfect that nothing will happen? Parents trusted their kids with hockey coaches up in my neck of the woods, and as a result...well...maybe you know the Theo Fleury story. ATI has a handbook on what god says about being abused...but what about a handbook on abuse prevention?

If IBLP wanted to get over this any time soon, they would stop these goofy statements and get to work writing (and publishing) workbooks and policies and training programs on abuse prevention. That way, they can at least cover their asses by saying...'ya know...we had all these unproven allegations, and we realized we didnt have any reporting mechanism or harrassment advisor or disseminated materials on the topic. See how proactive we are?'

Gothards statement does prove one thing in my eyes. He's a social climbing predator.

[Palimpsest]

Any thoughts on RG's response to Bill's statement?

recoveringgrace.org/2014/04/response-to-gothards-statement/

I think they did quite well although they were a bit too verbose. They are choosing their words carefully and diplomatically for the outside world.

The last three paragraphs pretty much sum it up. They basically say (in much more polite terms):

1. Screw this fake apology. The obfuscation doesn't work, Mr. G.

2. The board needs to address the issues. Fast.

3. There needs to be a real external investigation. Get back to us when that happens.

[apple1]

I think they did quite well although they were a bit too verbose. They are choosing their words carefully and diplomatically for the outside world.

The last three paragraphs pretty much sum it up. They basically say (in much more polite terms):

1. Screw this fake apology. The obfuscation doesn't work, Mr. G.

2. The board needs to address the issues. Fast.

3. There needs to be a real external investigation. Get back to us when that happens.

I agree with this.

[neuroticcat]

I think the last half where they point out the weaknesses is good - especially the third point. The opening still seems like they're trying to navigate some Christian-culture idea of an amends process that involves acknowledging any shred of good they can find in Gothard's narcissist apology.

I think this kind of thing is endemic in Christian groups - they feel they have to be nice or hedge things - somehow that is what "speaking the truth in love" means. I think the continued call to repentance bothers me. I understand that as a starting place, but after that, it begins to feed the narcissist. Let's leave the repentance to his conscience and God and instead get the civil authorities involved so that it doesn't happen again. When it stays internal to the Christian-world it becomes this game of how-repentant-is-someone and since we should forgive everyone, let's give him another chance. It's like a narcissist's playground.