Bill Gothard Sexual Misconduct Investigation - Part 2

[LadyPriss]

Don't lump the Catholics in with the Mormons, and please don't talk like you are stating Catholic facts. More American Catholics are in favor of same sex marriage than Americans in general. The majority of Catholics aren't "against homosexuality." http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-an ... aseID=1961

Marital status has nothing to do with pedophilia.

Both the FLDS and the official stance of the Vatican are against homosexuality. Individual Catholics have their own views. People can marry their remote controls for all I care. Its why I joined this site. It drives me nuts that here are these religious yawhoos who get all into politics saying freedom of religion, yet they so all anti gay and push their religious views on people. Other religions are either pro gay or a heck of a lot more tolerant. In the view of IBLP, its freedom of one religion, not all.

And yes, marital ability does play into it for some priests. They are far enough removed from reality by not being allowed to marry. It is a factor. Sit in a court of law and hear some of the bile that comes out of the mouths of these shitheads. And refer to my reponse on the next page.

[Arete]

90% of pedophiles are heterosexuals. A good chunk of them are married. I don't care what their cry-me-a-river excuses are, their inability not to marry as priests or even gay men does not turn sexually normal men into pedophiles.

You know how priests who cannot marry act out? By having affairs with ADULT women or men.

The article gives no evidence that homosexual men in a celibate priesthood become pedophiles. The link with the priesthood and pedophiles is that pedophiles are attracted to careers that put them in a position of power and in constant contact with children.

Same thing with the FLDS. Warren Jeffs isn't gay. He is a pedophile.

[Hane]

The link with the priesthood and pedophiles is that pedophiles are attracted to careers that put them in a position of power and in constant contact with children.

BINGO.

[formergothardite]

90% of pedophiles are heterosexuals. A good chunk of them are married. I don't care what their cry-me-a-river excuses are, their inability not to marry as priests or even gay men does not turn sexually normal men into pedophiles.

You know how priests who cannot marry act out? By having affairs with ADULT women or men.

The article gives no evidence that homosexual men in a celibate priesthood become pedophiles. The link with the priesthood and pedophiles is that pedophiles are attracted to careers that put them in a position of power and in constant contact with children.

Same thing with the FLDS. Warren Jeffs isn't gay. He is a pedophile.

Exactly. Being a priest isn't going to turn a man into a pedophile.

[Crackedeggs]

None of this surprises me. I'm surprised it's not worse, honestly... though the foot fetish aspect is very creepy, it makes me think of dirty cheap mens polyester dress socks in a clothes hamper. (shudder)

Also... is this thing sitting in the chair a stuffed corpse, or a blow up doll?

[Palimpsest]

He looks like Jeremy Bentham's auto-icon.

ucl.ac.uk/Bentham-Project/who/autoicon/Virtual_Auto_Icon

[Ellimenopy]

Exactly. Being a priest isn't going to turn a man into a pedophile.

I would guess that a lot of them get into it initially as a way to control their urges, actually. I knew a gay man who was a devout catholic that who felt like his orientation was a sign that he should be in the priesthood. I lost track of him after college, but I hope that he realized that that wasn't going to work in the long run.

[marmalade]

Catching up with Recovering Grace's latest update on All Things Gothard, and it appears that the Chairman of the Board, the unfortunately named Billy Boring, has stepped down in addition to another board member. The new Chairman? None other than Dr. Paine.

RG is working to open dialogue with him. The board claims they are doing an "internal investigation" regarding the charges levied against Gothard; RG is working for 3rd party intervention.

Back to your regularly scheduled discussions. :D

ETA: Before we all go and think that Dr. Paine might be an improvement from the sycophant Boring, I ran across this post at RG (posted in full since it's public):

With my own eyes, I saw Dr. Paine give a chunk of his own son's wedding reception to publicly gush over Gothard and celebrate him, and hero worship him...talking about how he is the greatest influence in his life other than his own father. Is it just me, but is it pretty messed up when BG and his latest material becomes the center of attention at your child's wedding? Aren't the bride and groom supposed to be getting the attention at the reception? That spectacle leaves me with no confidence that things will get better. There will just be a new guru for the same bad teaching.

So there's that... :hand:

[Palimpsest]

Thanks, Marmalade.

I find the fact that two members of the board have stepped down reeeaaaallllly interesting. Yes, the IBLP BoD list has been updated to omit the names of Boring and Reese.

Bernie Reese is the retired attorney and law professor. He must be well into his 80s. He called RG and asked a lot of "pointed" questions. They answered the questions, but refused to disclose the identities of people other than Cornish and Underwood. Bernie Reese than stepped down from the board. I'd put money on the board claiming that this was due to advanced age. I think not. The guy's an attorney, after all.

Billy Boring may not be such a sycophant after all. To step down as Chair and leave the board indicates that a massive impasse was reached. Tables were thumped and ultimations given, IMO. Of course, we don't know what position Boring took, but he stepped down because he couldn't convince the rest of the board of the direction he thought they should take.

So now Paine is Chair. Hmm. He is a Gothard leg-humper to the core.

ETA. So there was a long telephone conversation between RG and Gothard moderated by a third party too. Per agreement, Mr Gothard neither confirmed nor denied anything but just listened. OK.

[mastercleaner]

Wow Dr Payne sure is a brown noser! I still don't understand how you give up medicine, something he spent years in school for, and just throws it away for Gothard. And he went on to what? Stuff envelopes??

They sure see Gothard as God-like, much like a prophet.

Even the Catholics don't worship the pope as much as they do Gothard.

It's very Warren Jeff's like in ATI... Constant pictures of Gothard with young girls... Positioned around him like he's the husband of multiple wives! It's really gross that people throw their lives away for this man!

[Palimpsest]

Wow Dr Payne sure is a brown noser! I still don't understand how you give up medicine, something he spent years in school for, and just throws it away for Gothard. And he went on to what? Stuff envelopes??

They sure see Gothard as God-like, much like a prophet.

Even the Catholics don't worship the pope as much as they do Gothard.

It's very Warren Jeff's like in ATI... Constant pictures of Gothard with young girls... Positioned around him like he's the husband of multiple wives! It's really gross that people throw their lives away for this man!

Dr. Paine did not give up medicine. He works for CCA (Correctional Corporation of America) as a prison doctor and probably tries to convert the inmates as he treats them. That is cruel and unusual punishment!

Note: CCA is a private company that contracts with various states to run prisons. It has a really crappy reputation and many human rights violations. Hot off the press http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jesse-lav ... 19372.html (link to HuffPuff not broken.)

[mastercleaner]

Ahhhhhh I see! Thanks for the clarification, I thought I had read that he gave up medicine.

It's still horrible that he stole the light from Chad and Erin to school girl gush over Gothard.

That cake for his birthday being called the grooms cake.... :ew:

[quiversR4hunting]

...That cake for his birthday being called the grooms cake.... :ew:

they should call the cake what it is -- man crush cake

[MalteseBaby]

A hero worship cake.

It's weird to me that any bride and groom and their parents would turn a wedding cake into a multi-purpose cake of any kind.

Now, with that out of the way,the fact that it had birds on it ( not exactly a symbol of masculinity except maybe if an eagle) gives it another thumbs down. The coup de grace was to celebrate another year of that sicko Gothard's life. I wonder how Erin and Chad ( not their parents- they are too far gone) will feel 10 years from now when they look at those wedding reception photos. A person would have to live in a cave in the fundie world not to know what Gothard and his brother have done. Gil Bates certainly knows, and if he denies and stands for Gothard, I think he will be judged by a higher power than exists on this earth.

[MalteseBaby]

Yesterday I glanced at the TV and some vintage TV show was on with a man propping up his feet clad in black socks like Gothard's socks seem to be in the photos. I felt really uneasy, then realized it was the BG connection to his sexual foreplay games.

I wondered: If I feel this way and was never in the presence of this man or his dogma and was certainly never groped by any old man's feet, how must the people with direct knowledge of his perverted behavior feel?

Regardless of what the IBLP board does or doesn't do, I hope those who were hurt by Gothard find ways to heal and live happy lives. He is gone and he can't hurt teenagers and families any longer. A person can heal without forgiveness from the abuser if they have a counselor trained in Gestalt therapy and possibly even EMDR if PTSD is present, which I expect some people will have. Others may heal on their own.. I don't want him to have any residual power over anyone's life through their continued emotional pain.

[Palimpsest]

Yesterday I glanced at the TV and some vintage TV show was on with a man propping up his feet clad in black socks like Gothard's socks seem to be in the photos. I felt really uneasy, then realized it was the BG connection to his sexual foreplay games.

I wondered: If I feel this way and was never in the presence of this man or his dogma and was certainly never groped by any old man's feet, how must the people with direct knowledge of his perverted behavior feel?

Regardless of what the IBLP board does or doesn't do, I hope those who were hurt by Gothard find ways to heal and live happy lives. He is gone and he can't hurt teenagers and families any longer. A person can heal without forgiveness from the abuser if they have a counselor trained in Gestalt therapy and possibly even EMDR if PTSD is present, which I expect some people will have. Others may heal on their own.. I don't want him to have any residual power over anyone's life through their continued emotional pain.

First, I would not assume that Gothard is "gone" yet. We can but hope. Whether he is out for good or not (the jury is still out on that) his legacy lives on in the people who he has taught to believe and behave like him. They can continue to hurt children and families using his sick methods.

Second, yes I think we all hope for healing of those Gothard and his perverted ways and teaching have damaged.

However, stop being so damn casual about healing from trauma. You sound like an ass. You can yap on about Gestalt therapy and EMDR as much as you like. There are other people here who know those terms and therapies too. It isn't that bloody easy to work through trauma like this.

Some of these people:

a) probably haven't got easy access to mental health services thanks to Gothard's limiting their educational opportunities and ability to get good jobs.

b) have been taught by Gothard that conventional mental health treatment is evil and it will take many years for them to overcome that indoctrination and get the help you so casually recommend.

[MalteseBaby]

I'm not casual about the ways people heal from trauma. I was speaking from both my education and my life experience. I have a degree in psychology and I know what therapies help people with deep traumas.

Stating what they are is not flippant nor uncaring, it is factual.

I have dealt with a severe trauma in my own life. It was labeled " PTSD" and EMDR didn't work with me for various reasons. I had to forgive the person who almost killed me on my own, with no contact possible or wanted with the transgressor before healing could progress.

Forgiveness is very healing. I had to hurt badly enough to seek help for something that was impacting my life greatly. I think this is true for most people seeking help with trauma... They've lived with it a long time before they feel they can tell someone else and find help to heal.

It took a long time for recovery. I do understand that recovery from abuses is complicated in many cases and does take a long time and a lot of work.

It is my understanding that most, if not all, states have mental health care provisions under their states' equivalent of Medicaid.

[realist51]

Thank you; I think it's a great service to point out therapies that can be helpful. I have been dealing with the effects of abuse for most of my adult live, and EMDR has, in fact, helped me quite a lot. So has not having contact with the abuser or the people who supported the abuser. I don't think I'll ever be able to say I'm "cured" and suffer no ill effects, but, year after year, I become less afraid, less inclined to want to control my environment and the people in it, and more willing to expose my real emotions to others. I was saddened to learn recently that some of my siblings have not made as much progress. I have encouraged them to explore EMDR, which they had never heard of.

[Palimpsest]

Re. Happily Heathen.

Oy. It is my understanding, having worked for Medicaid at one point in my long and varied career, that mental health provisions under Medicaid vary from state to state. People who are slightly overincome for Medicaid (it is a very low threshold) can whistle for them. They usually have other priorities if they are that low income too.

Also you did not address my point about Gothard's indoctrination making people very resistant to conventional mental health services.

So you have a degree in psychology? Fantastic! You can teach us all so much. But I thought you said you were a nurse on another thread? And you are a PTSD survivor? So sorry. There are a few of us here. And you have a dieing husband? My condolences. And you understand trauma? Wonderful.

PFFFTTT!!!!

I'm not usually this harsh with people with low post counts so I looked over at a few of HappilyHeathen's other posts. S/he is picking fights all over the place.

Others can decide for themselves but methinks I need a pedicure. The last time I used red Mr. P. thought my toes were bleeding. I'm afraid a dark blue might look like I have gangrene. Do you think a dainty pale blue would look good on my toes? Or would I look like mutton dressed as lamb? I have over 58 years of life experience after all! :lol:

[apple1]

Others can decide for themselves but methinks I need a pedicure. The last time I used red Mr. P. thought my toes were bleeding. I'm afraid a dark blue might look like I have gangrene. Do you think a dainty pale blue would look good on my toes? Or would I look like mutton dressed as lamb? I have over 58 years of life experience after all! :lol:

I don't know, a nice springy, peachy coral, doncha think? Just the right season. Is it gonna be warm enough to wear some sandals and show it off? Nice thin silver straps, coral polish, very pretty. :)

[ILoveJellybeans]

Pedicures on a Gothard thread.....*shudder*

[MalteseBaby]

I don't pick fights and I tried very hard to reply to you with factual information, not with any name-calling in return to your initial jabs.

To answer Palimpsest's latest post:

1) The only mental health care reimbursement system I have any knowledge of is N. Texas' MHMR system. It seems to be a good and fairly liberal payment system for those without insurance or self- payment. MHMR also has its own self- contained mental health facilities with counselors, and psychiatrists who prescribe the medications.

2) I can't address Gothard's position on mental health care because I don't know what it is, or was.

3) Yes, I graduated from nursing school at a very young age and worked in critical care for a long time. After repeated back injuries over the years, I was off work. I used some of my savings to go back to college and get a second degree in a related field, Psychology, because I had quite a lot of college credits which transferred and because I could practice without repetitive stress injuries.

4) I was stalked. By a man who worked for a state government agency, and carried a badge and a gun. It was a very difficult thing to prove, but the end result was that he was fired from a high position in state government and forfeited his full pension plan. He also lost his wife, children and house as a result. This happened before there were any anti-stalking laws and since I was not physically hurt or killed, he couldn't be charged with a criminal offense. I was able to prove my allegations against him based upon his pattern of phone calls to my place of work, my residences even when I changed my phone number many times, and his many unnecessary travel logs/ charges to the area where I lived. He charged it all to the state. They had the records, and the patterns were clearly that of an obsessed stalker. I only wanted him to be stopped. I was not as interested in the penalty part because I had low expectations of him being put in prison. The police had told me he probably wouldn't serve time and he didn't. So, I left the state and have not returned and will not return to live there while he is alive.

He is still alive as far as I know. I will probably never fully be the person I was before this happened to me.

I believe my experiences with trauma and PTSD have helped me greatly to be a good therapist and to help others find relief to their own torments and nightmares.

5) No, my husband is well. An ex husband of mine is suffering from mid stage Parkinson's disease which started to disable his walking at a fairly young age. Parkinson's usually isn't the cause of death, but it is a contributing factor many times. I think he will live many years longer in a wheelchair and bed, with good care. He is very alert and intelligent. He was already remarried when he became ill. We share an offspring. There will always be ties between us which don't exist with my other exes.

The things I have said are true.

Many are hurtful to recount, and it's certainly hurtful to be made fun of and given the " troll talk" to.

[Crackedeggs]

I wonder if BG has painted toenails under his smelly, moist polyester trouser socks......Seriously, since I,have read these stories, I can't bring myself to,wear anything but white cotton crew,socks. Icky icky Icky ewwwww!

[Palimpsest]

As Apple1 suggested a cheery coral looks lovely on my toes. Silver straps are not likely yet because my pretty toes are muffled in socks and wellies as I wade through the mud and melting snow to walk the pups. Mr. P. likes the color though.

Sorry ILoveJellyBeans, the pedicure manoeuvre was more than a little tactless on a footfetishist thread. I should have used the manicure manoeuvre instead.

And to those who are strangely "liking" HappilyHeathen's posts ... Oh my dears! Get real! Normal posters don't get into this many fights in such a short time. Or are this provoking. And they certainly don't spill quite so much "deeply personal" information so fast.

Unless they are full of it.

::Yawns:: Decide as you like. I'm thinking of putting HappilyHeathen on ignore so please don't quote it because then I'll see the rubbish.

:feed-trolls:

[happy atheist]

Just a reminder that it's easy to mark people as "foe" and have the forum not display their posts for you. :wink-kitty: