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Bill Gothard Sexual Misconduct Investigation - Part 2


happy atheist

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Because of the claims about me I do want to state that I have never kissed a girl nor have I touched a girl immorally or with sexual intent.

What a huge pile of bullshit. :roll:

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Of course, nothing has really changed. When he mentions those who have become offended by his actions, it's Gothard-speak for blaming the victims for being traumatized by his actions. Because, as his logic goes, if they had accepted God's grace, they wouldn't have been offended regardless of how harmful his actions were.

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Denial of the most egregious charges, yes. But once you get past the Gothardese, he's effectively admitting he's painted himself in a corner.

It's pathetic: this old douchebag is so far removed from the concepts of appropriate, consensual interaction between men and women that he doesn't have a clue how gross his behavior is. "I'm the Big Important Christian[tm][/tm] GotHard, so everything I do MUST be OK, right?"

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Here's what I took away from his statement: "Blah blah blah me me blah blah blah blah blah me me me." Just like in Finding Nemo.

Cuz it's all about you, Billy, right?

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"My actions of holding of hands, hugs, and touching of feet or hair with young ladies crossed the boundaries of discretion and were wrong. They demonstrated a double-standard and violated a trust. Because of the claims about me I do want to state that I have never kissed a girl nor have I touched a girl immorally or with sexual intent."

How about that his actions also violated other PEOPLE - the women he touched. I think skipping over that part - that there were actual victims - that it wasn't just that he broke trust but that he abused his power and harmed these women shows how little young people - especially young women - are regarded in that culture. And that last sentence? If by their own culture holding hands before courting is sexually tempting, how can he try and NOW say it is totally benign.

I am surprised that he even admits it, though.

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I commented on his post, but of course it is waiting on approval. I wonder if they will publish any unfavorable comments at all.

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Doubtful. It will be all blowing sunshine and roses up his ass. He'll be called "brave" and people will say that he has repented.

Bull.shit. There wasn't an ounce of concern for the lives of the girls that he molested. And yes, Billy, your intent was sexual.

It just dawned on me that this public statement on his website where his people would go was made just in time for the Big Sandy conference next week. He'll be positively made a saint for "repenting" for his so-called "sins." I bet he's back in power by the end of this month.

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Wait, what? Gothard admitted that the touching of feet, hair, hands and hugs were wrong but then claims he never touched a girl immorally? So, which is it? And who the hell is Bill kidding? There was sexual intent, you jerk. Why else would you touch a young girl's hair and feet and hold hands? Oh, and because there was no kissing everything was OK?

That was not an apology. That was, yet another, ramble from a narcissistic religious leader talking about themselves with a heavy dose of victim blaming.

Edit: I freaking hate my iPad sometimes. It makes me look like a complete dumbass sometimes with the random changes and spellings it spits out.

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Fuck you, Bill Gothard. That was the worse apology (or non-apology) I have ever read. You don't mean a single word, and you are placing blame not on yourself but others. Furthermore, the apology was all about you, not the people you hurt. Take your non-apology and shove it up your fundie ass you crazy mother fucker! Karma's a bitch, and boy do you have it coming in spades.

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"Because of the claims about me I do want to state that I have never kissed a girl nor have I touched a girl immorally or with sexual intent."

But has he kissed a woman or touched a woman immorally and with sexual intent? He is very crafty with how he words things. How many men play with the feet of women in a non-sexual way? He might be the first.

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"Because of the claims about me I do want to state that I have never kissed a girl nor have I touched a girl immorally or with sexual intent."

But has he kissed a woman or touched a woman immorally and with sexual intent? He is very crafty with how he words things. How many men play with the feet of women in a non-sexual way? He might be the first.

Im guessing when he says he has never touched a girl immorally or with sexual intent means that he didn't touch her with his dick.

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So, his real sin is that he made some people feel less loved and therefore fostered jealousy in the movement. He apologizes to God for letting him down.

Do I get a prize for reading comprehension today? :roll:

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Interesting times!

Can we discuss a little bit about how to respond to the ATI'ers in our lives?

My MIL (family was a classic ATI family) has this to say about Gothard:

1) That all the claims of sexual harassment were solely started by the girl "Charlotte" who's story is on Recovering Grace. That basically, she was bitter about ATI and wrote up her story and convinced a bunch of her friends to do the same. That if Charlotte had kept her mouth shut, that there would be no real stories and claims of sexual harassment.

2) That because no one has brought legal charges against Gothard, there is no real substance to the claims, and basically the whole thing is bullcrap. This furthers her reasoning that the claims are merely bitter individuals "getting back" at Gothard. In her mind, if there was reason for Gothard to resign from his position, it would be because there was evidence to bring him to court and send him to jail. Not because he had a double standard and was morally wrong.

Of course, the whole time, she claims that she "knew there was something off about Gothard for years" and that she isn't going to be involved in ATI anymore.

What do I even say to this? How do I respond?

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What a huge pile of bullshit. :roll:

But an engaged couple holding hands would be touching each other immorally and with sexual intent.

Riiiight.

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But an engaged couple holding hands would be touching each other immorally and with sexual intent.

Riiiight.

I know it! An incredible vacillation... here he was threatening to send home a freakin' brother and sister because they gave each other hugs at HQ, and talking for 5 minutes was considered a "date" and was grounds for punishment—yet rubbing feet, holding hands, stroking hair is not sexual/inappropriate anymore? The only time holding hands would be appropriate is father/child, and that only up to a certain age; or for a couple—and that's in normal-world standards.

What do I even say to this? How do I respond?

I don't even know. I had friends growing up who currently work at HQ. Their parent spoke to a mutual friend parent who spoke to my parent saying that they don't believe the accusations at all, and ascribe it all to "bitterness" per the usual. I doubt they would listen to reason. My parents are also adding the caveat about "we knew something wasn't right with ATIA, that's why we switched from being Gothardites to VFers"... have to exonerate themselves.

Most likely the best way to go about it would be to say, firstly, the hypocrisy of it all: even if it was just holding hands, having private prayer sessions, stroking hair, footsie (which he apparently isn't denying)—isn't that an egregious betrayal of his own teachings? Secondly, 34+ stories that corroborate each other in many details, especially a network of former HQ employees that remember each other, have a very high likelihood of veracity. Thirdly, the profoundly documented scandal and coverup of several decades ago demonstrates that he's not the most scrupulous of men; there's no denying that entire dust-up. Fourthly (which should be first, but they're very unlikely to do it) would be to really step back and examine the beliefs from Scripture—how many of his teachings are actually scriptural? Most of it is based on a '50s-era external morality, and is a shortcut to losing your soul by stifling it.

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Interesting times!

Can we discuss a little bit about how to respond to the ATI'ers in our lives?

My MIL (family was a classic ATI family) has this to say about Gothard:

1) That all the claims of sexual harassment were solely started by the girl "Charlotte" who's story is on Recovering Grace. That basically, she was bitter about ATI and wrote up her story and convinced a bunch of her friends to do the same. That if Charlotte had kept her mouth shut, that there would be no real stories and claims of sexual harassment.

2) That because no one has brought legal charges against Gothard, there is no real substance to the claims, and basically the whole thing is bullcrap. This furthers her reasoning that the claims are merely bitter individuals "getting back" at Gothard. In her mind, if there was reason for Gothard to resign from his position, it would be because there was evidence to bring him to court and send him to jail. Not because he had a double standard and was morally wrong.

Of course, the whole time, she claims that she "knew there was something off about Gothard for years" and that she isn't going to be involved in ATI anymore.

What do I even say to this? How do I respond?

I don't even try to respond to the True Believers. Nothing short of a video of him molesting a woman will make them believe and even then there are some who wouldn't. The ones I know go on about how they knew him when these things were supposed to be going on and he is just sooooo godly and humble there is no way these accusations are true. These are just bitter and rebellious people who want to live in sin and they are being used by Satan to attack Mr. Gothard. Isn't he handling this attack against him with such humility? :roll:

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"Because of the claims about me I do want to state that I have never kissed a girl nor have I touched a girl immorally or with sexual intent."

But has he kissed a woman or touched a woman immorally and with sexual intent? He is very crafty with how he words things. How many men play with the feet of women in a non-sexual way? He might be the first.

Ok, I think I just figured out the logic that Bill is using. It's like this:

You know when you were a kid and goofing off with your siblings or friends? And you decide to tease someone and stick your foot out to trip them? Of course, you pull your foot in before they fall down, because you see your mom walking into the room. She says, "What are you doing?! Were you tripping Johnny?" And you get away scot-free and innocent, because you say, "I would never do that! I wasn't trying to trip them! Look, nothing happened!"

Nice, Bill. Act like an 8 year old kid.

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Let's play Spot the Similarities!

Bill Clinton, 1998: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

Bill Gothard, 2014: "I have never kissed a girl nor have I touched a girl immorally or with sexual intent."

I'll interpret this for you guys, fundie-style:

  • "I have never kissed a girl..." No, instead he would insist that all of them were women.

    "Nor have I touched a girl immorally..." Of course not, it was all paternal, right?

    "Or with sexual intent..." Here's where he can lie to himself and say he never intended to touch her sexually. If she thought it was sexual, then that's her fault.

This is so pathetic and sad. He needs to just go quietly into retirement and hope things don't get worse for him.

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What ATI has to be concerned about is if there is a lawsuit lurking out there ala the Doug Phillips/VF debacle. That might stop them from reinstating the old goat. If they reinstate him and they get sued.....uh oh! Dougie's problems might have cooked Bill's goose from afar.

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:::cracks knuckles, shakes out hands like Norton in the Honeymooners:::

I have withheld this statement in order to honor the request of the Board of Directors to wait until an initial review has taken place. As the review continues, I now want to make this statement. until "Red" The Pecan-Gleaning Clown could get over his "ick" factor and help me write it. Then his wife (love her hair!) topped him with her pregnancy anouncement -- Heh, heh, heh -- pwned!

God has brought me to a place of greater brokenness than at any other time in my life. I'm tellin' you, I am down. Down here . . . on the floor . . . hoping a lovely young lady with long loose locks will walk on me barefoot . . . or do I want high heels for that . . . ? Oh, sorry -- lost my train of thought. It is a grief to realize how my pride and insensitivity have affected so many people. I have asked the Lord to reveal the underlying causes and He is doing this. He came to me in a dream last night and said, in a booming voice sort of like a mix of Don LaFontaine and Chuck Heston, "You are a gross perv, Billy. Really -- if a deity could vomit, I would."

For many years I have been building the Institute but losing my first love for the Lord because the sonofabitch never wants to play footsie. God warns “I know thy works, and thy labour . . . Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent. . . †(Revelation 2:2, 4, 5). I was finding value and affirmation from the accomplishments of the ministry and those involved in it instead of filling this void in my life with God and His love so it was the fault of other people for fawning on me. I have repented in deep sorrow - sort of. However, over the years many people have been offended in different ways because of my lack of genuine love.

I put the Institute and its goals ahead of people and their needs. Standards became more important than relationships. People who didn’t “measure up†were cut off and those who were not seen as adding value to the ministry were treated as though they were expendable. The more I have listened to people describe their experiences the more grieved and sorrowful I have become.

My wrong focus produced a further consequence. Families were made to feel that they must “measure up.†This resulted in some parents putting undue pressure on their sons and daughters in order for the family to be accepted. When there was a lack of love or consistency, sons and daughters saw this as hypocrisy and rejected it. Also, many felt that the expectations where so high that they could never measure up to them. This resulted in a feeling of deep defeat.

Blah blah blah lots of excuses that have nothing to do with my icky obsessions.

This emphasis on outward appearance was also manifested by bringing selected young people to serve at the Headquarters and causing others to feel rejected and offended by my favoritism. My actions of holding of hands, hugs, and touching of feet or hair with young ladies crossed the boundaries of discretion and were wrong. They demonstrated a double-standard and violated a trust. See, it's all about the people I didn't fondle being all jealous and stuff of those I did. My touch is so wonderful, they all crave it. My footsie brings all the girls to the yard. Because of the claims about me I do want to state that I have never kissed a girl because I get off better on footsie and hair stroking, nor have I touched a girl immorally or with sexual intent :::uncrosses fingers, puts out pant fire:::.

I have failed to live out some of the very things that I have taught. I am committed to learning from my failures by God’s grace and mercy, and do what I can to help bring about Biblical reconciliation as Jesus commands: “Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift†(Matthew 5:23-24).

More than anything I want to make right what I have done wrong and deepen my relationship with the Lord. I trust in God’s undeserved mercy and pray that those whom I have offended would find grace to forgive me. I know that I do not deserve this. I would certainly appreciate your prayers during this time that God would bring healing to those who have been so deeply affected by my actions. I am grateful for the opportunities I have had thus far to be reconciled with individuals and it is my goal to contact as many others as I can, fully hear them, and do whatever I can to bring about Biblical reconciliation.

Blah blah blah please please please don't punish me, please? C'mon, Dad, I promise I won't do it again, please? Just let it go this one, er, 34, er, are we including the stuff from the last four decades, or just two? Well, anyway, let it go and I promise it will never ever ever happen again. Am I still your favorite?

My greatest offense has been against God. I have earnestly sought His mercy and forgiveness and have asked Him to allow me to experience more of Him - please, God please - just a little bit of footsie? May I stroke your beard? and the power of His resurrection.

Insincerely,

Bill Gothard

Disgusting bastard.

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Fundie groups are full of contradictions. It doesn't t surprise me in the the least. Besides, the Websters have 2 sides to play...IBLP and the government. Gothard would easily overlook a lot of things to have politicians and wealthy people parade around as poster patriarchs.

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:::cracks knuckles, shakes out hands like Norton in the Honeymooners:::

Disgusting bastard.

That is awesome. :D

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Back to this thread to say -

I can't imagine that timing the release of this non-apology "apology" for late evening just before Good Friday was anything other than intentional. Many observant Christians have other priorities Good Friday through Easter Sunday (appropriately, IMO).

This statement is horrifying. I suspect that Gothard has continued to run his show through the entire thing, and the release of the statement is merely a prelude to a public return to business as usual.

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Back to this thread to say -

I can't imagine that timing the release of this non-apology "apology" for late evening just before Good Friday was anything other than intentional. Many observant Christians have other priorities Good Friday through Easter Sunday (appropriately, IMO).

This statement is horrifying. I suspect that Gothard has continued to run his show through the entire thing, and the release of the statement is merely a prelude to a public return to business as usual.

But sadly, he knows exactly how to talk to the folks ingrained in Gothardism. I guarantee you that most of the followers who were on the fence about acknowledging that Gothard did anything wrong, will dive right back into believing he can do no wrong. :( "He's repented!" "He didn't mean anything in a sexual way!" :pink-shock:

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