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Bill Gothard Sexual Misconduct Investigation - Part 2


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Heathen, can I PM you regarding getting services for overMedicaid cap but uninsured folks on MH in NTX? I've got a friend I've been trying desperately to find resources for and we keep running into "Sorry, don't qualify". We keep running into "Oh, you're in Denton County" -> sends to Denton 311 -> Oh, you're not in city limits, sorry, we don't serve you."

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Heathen, can I PM you regarding getting services for overMedicaid cap but uninsured folks on MH in NTX? I've got a friend I've been trying desperately to find resources for and we keep running into "Sorry, don't qualify". We keep running into "Oh, you're in Denton County" -> sends to Denton 311 -> Oh, you're not in city limits, sorry, we don't serve you."

Hi, Mango, yes you may PM me. I'll help you and your person in need as best as possible.

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There was a big ATI royalty wedding this weekend-- http://www.westorangetimes.com/articles ... cial01.txt -- Rep. Daniel Webster's son Jordan married a girl who works at the Gothard mothership & I believe was described in an earlier thread as a Gothard relative (I could be wrong about that).

We should look for pics or videos to see if Gothard attended the wedding, and if Rep. Daniel Webster is willing to be photographed with him!

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Holy crap! He (Jordan Webster) went to a real, STATE, non-religious school!

Thomas Edison State College: General Information: School type public, coed college, Year founded 1972, Religious affiliation N/A

and it has accreditations!!! Real accreditations! Hopefully they keep going further and further away from gothardism!

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Holy crap! He (Jordan Webster) went to a real, STATE, non-religious school!

Thomas Edison State College: General Information: School type public, coed college, Year founded 1972, Religious affiliation N/A

and it has accreditations!!! Real accreditations! Hopefully they keep going further and further away from gothardism!

I hate to say it, but nope, he never "went" there. Thomas Edison is the school that the program College Plus recommends to get a degree without actually attending a college; they use TESC because it accepts so many transfer credits. You take a few classes *online* at TESC but nearly all of your credits are transferred from a variety of accredited testing programs (like CLEP etc.), thus acquiring a degree without ever setting foot in an actual college.

The benefits are that it saves a ton of time and money (you're paying a small fee for a 3-credit test that you study for and take in 2 weeks, as opposed to $1,000s for a 3-credit course that takes months; and you can get a BA in 1.5-2 years), you get to test out of the subjects that aren't related to your field of study, but you still have to do the work of studying, it's just condensed. The cons? That it further enables the stifling control of fundie parents over their kids, since they can get their kids to believe they're doing something useful while suffocating their personalities and autonomy at home.

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A good explanation, Othello! [in spite of their shilling for College Plus, we don't have any evidence that any Duggarspawn have made it to the Thomas Edison stage of "college']

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I hate to say it, but nope, he never "went" there. Thomas Edison is the school that the program College Plus recommends to get a degree without actually attending a college; they use TESC because it accepts so many transfer credits. You take a few classes *online* at TESC but nearly all of your credits are transferred from a variety of accredited testing programs (like CLEP etc.), thus acquiring a degree without ever setting foot in an actual college.

The benefits are that it saves a ton of time and money (you're paying a small fee for a 3-credit test that you study for and take in 2 weeks, as opposed to $1,000s for a 3-credit course that takes months; and you can get a BA in 1.5-2 years), you get to test out of the subjects that aren't related to your field of study, but you still have to do the work of studying, it's just condensed. The cons? That it further enables the stifling control of fundie parents over their kids, since they can get their kids to believe they're doing something useful while suffocating their personalities and autonomy at home.

Thanks for the info. Since it has accreditations I still see it as a big step up from clown college. And I can see how some fundie parents would still hang it over their head and keep control over their adult stay-at-home children. I see now it says it's a college for adults- we have one like that near us and it is geared towards non-traditional students. He is working for a HVAC company so at least they aren't working at HQ with pecan theft. small victories? :)

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Holy crap! He (Jordan Webster) went to a real, STATE, non-religious school!

Thomas Edison State College: General Information: School type public, coed college, Year founded 1972, Religious affiliation N/A

and it has accreditations!!! Real accreditations! Hopefully they keep going further and further away from gothardism!

Slow your roll, the school is for adults. There is a LOT of online classes and they specialize in giving you/find ways to give you credit for "life experience" so you can get your degree quicker. No sports teams, student center, hell I don't think they have a library? and only 4 campus buildings. Really the school is for adults who dropped out of school and have credits and they help you knit it all together to get a degree. Not knocking (have had relatives graduate from there) but it isn't even equivalent to a community college in terms of buildings, student center, etc.

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I hate to say it, but nope, he never "went" there. Thomas Edison is the school that the program College Plus recommends to get a degree without actually attending a college; they use TESC because it accepts so many transfer credits. You take a few classes *online* at TESC but nearly all of your credits are transferred from a variety of accredited testing programs (like CLEP etc.), thus acquiring a degree without ever setting foot in an actual college.

The benefits are that it saves a ton of time and money (you're paying a small fee for a 3-credit test that you study for and take in 2 weeks, as opposed to $1,000s for a 3-credit course that takes months; and you can get a BA in 1.5-2 years), you get to test out of the subjects that aren't related to your field of study, but you still have to do the work of studying, it's just condensed. The cons? That it further enables the stifling control of fundie sarents over their kids, since they can get their kids to believe they're doing something useful while suffocating their personalities and autonomy at home.

Yep, that's where most CollegePlus students get their degree. Yes, a lot of fundie parents like it because they can control their kids. BUT, the CLEP, DSST, and other credits they usually have are 'secular' and they have to study secular material for the credit, not to mention the TESC course and discussion boards with classmates. For some of them, its even their first exposure to studying the EBIL science (evolution)! So it is at least a step.... I went through the program and was able to gain a lot of freedom and confidence in myself, that helped tremendously when I finally left home. And look where I ended up!

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Yep, that's where most CollegePlus students get their degree. Yes, a lot of fundie parents like it because they can control their kids. BUT, the CLEP, DSST, and other credits they usually have are 'secular' and they have to study secular material for the credit, not to mention the TESC course and discussion boards with classmates. For some of them, its even their first exposure to studying the EBIL science (evolution)! So it is at least a step.... I went through the program and was able to gain a lot of freedom and confidence in myself, that helped tremendously when I finally left home. And look where I ended up!

Do they realize it costs more for college plus than an actual college :cray-cray:

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Do they realize it costs more for college plus than an actual college :cray-cray:

Not sure where you're getting that, the (undergrad, in-state) credit hour cost (at a fairly normal, non-community, public university near me) is $350+, whereas a CLEP test gives you anywhere from 3 to 12 credits for an $80 fee. You can actually save a whole lot of money on a degree if you use the unorthodox method. The primary issue is that it gives fundie parents yet another way to keep their children at home under total surveillance and control for several more years while still convincing them they're moving along in life.

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However, the classes you CLEP through are all lower division classes that CAN be taken at a community college for (in the case of the place I work) $50/unit - and that fee is the result of massive rate hikes over the past 10 years. So a full load will run you about $800/semester. Far cheaper than College Minus prep plus paying for the CLEP testing.

I also know that the CLEP route gets you nowhere in my state; neither tier of State university accepts them. However, I looked up the University of Arkansas out of curiosity and while it accepts some CLEP work, it doesn't accept all.

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Not sure where you're getting that, the (undergrad, in-state) credit hour cost (at a fairly normal, non-community, public university near me) is $350+, whereas a CLEP test gives you anywhere from 3 to 12 credits for an $80 fee. You can actually save a whole lot of money on a degree if you use the unorthodox method. The primary issue is that it gives fundie parents yet another way to keep their children at home under total surveillance and control for several more years while still convincing them they're moving along in life.

The average cost of College plus per year is 6500. I paid 4000/ year for an actual degree in chemistry. I graduated in 2008 and the school still have pretty good tuition.

You can also save a lot of money by going to a community college for core requirement classes.

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Ah, never mind – I'm confusing the method with the service.

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FYI. Jim Bob Duggar's canned statement on the Gothard scandal from the Wire.

thewire.com/culture/2014/04/ ... ou/359339/

Given their endorsement of Gothard's influential teachings, The Wire asked the family for a statement on the Gothard scandal. Jim Bob, the father, said:

"I think it's important for each person to put their faith in Jesus and not follow any man. For us its so important for each of us to have a relationship with the Lord. And the foundation of the relationship is asking Christ to forgive us for our sin, and to turn over the control of our life to Him, and to follow him. And so we don't follow any men, and that's just where we're at."

When asked specifically if the advice in the book still stands, despite the controversy surrounding the man who produced it, Jim Bob added, "What we do as a family, is we just follow what the Bible says. As a family, that's our goal. ... People will let us down, but Jesus won't." In other words, Gothard's ideas will remain a part of their family, even if the man behind them doesn't.

Blah, blah, blah ...

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radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/04/open-letter-duggar-family-stop-supporting-ministry-bill-gothard-alleged-sexual-harassment/

One of the alleged victims wrote an open letter to the Duggars about Gothar and radar online posted it.

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One of the young ladies who stepped forward with allegations against Gothard is Megan Lind, who met him in 1991 when she was just 11-years-old, and she’s now given RadarOnline.com an exclusive interview and an open letter to the Duggar family in which she pleads with them to reconsider their involvement in the group.

Dear Duggars,

I speak from the perspective of one who experienced firsthand sexual harassment that parallels the personal stories told on the whistleblower website, Recovering Grace. Those stories were written by girls who worked closely with Bill Gothard, who is the founder of ATI, the homeschool curriculum and training convention your family uses and attends every year. I hope that this open letter will be heard from the heart by your family and the many others who are questioning your continued involvement with this group. Today, I am a married mother of two. My objective is to convey to you as a parent the concern I have for children being brought up in the authoritarian lifestyle espoused by Gothard.

My involvement in ATI set the stage for the unwanted sexual attention that I experienced at the hands of Bill Gothard. His teachings requiring unquestioning obedience by children that were taught to me by my parents, which they gained through their training via Bill Gothard’s enormously popular Basic Seminars in the early 70s. When I was a teen, I was sent to volunteer for Gothard at his seminars and training centers. Gothard paid special attention to me, and often asked me to travel in his personal van from center to center. When he was in town, Gothard would periodically request my presence in his office for long hours and late into the night for the purpose of counseling. His behavior toward me was what I would now define as predatory in nature, although at the time because of my over-protected upbringing, I was merely confused and uncomfortable. Bill would sit or stand close to me, stroke my back or my arm, and rub his hand along my leg, as he would tell me that he believed God had brought me to his ministry for a purpose. Even though Gothard taught firmly in his seminars and materials that an unmarried man should not touch a woman in this way, Gothard did so regularly with me and other girls I knew at the time.

Gothard’s followers are astoundingly loyal, even to the detriment of the victim. This may be why personal attempts to address the issues within the ATI movement have fallen on deaf ears until the recent public disclosures on the Recovering Grace website. Once, I went to Gothard’s leadership to express my discomfort with his attentions, and was severely disciplined for my efforts by being confined to my room for weeks, even for meals. At the end of my confinement, I was once again summoned to his office, and I did not complain again. This disciplinary structure pervaded his entire ministry at varying levels, and I believe that it was a direct result of his teachings.

Mr. and Mrs. Duggar, I believe that your family has a sincere desire to live your life for the glory of God, and that you desire the best possible upbringing for your children. However, I also know that the lifestyle you have chosen for your children is more dangerous to them than it is protective of them. I am aware that you list ATI as your homeschool affiliation on your public website. I also know that your family takes a prominent role in the annual homeschool seminars ATI hosts for its families. I appeal to you to reconsider your involvement with this group. Some may suggest that Gothard’s inappropriate behaviors over the past forty years which have been carefully documented on recoveringgrace.org are personal to Gothard, and should not be attributed to his teachings or to his followers, who include your family. I do believe that Gothard saw himself as above his own rules. However, I also believe that the authority structure that he designed for his followers created the opposite of its stated intention: the so-called protections designed for women and children which includes removing the right to say “no†to a person in authority has the effect of setting these same women and children up for abuse from within. I know; it happened to me.

Sincerely,

Megan Lind

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/04/open-letter-duggar-family-stop-supporting-ministry-bill-gothard-alleged-sexual-harassment/

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Well done, Megan!

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FYI. Jim Bob Duggar's canned statement on the Gothard scandal from the Wire.

thewire.com/culture/2014/04/ ... ou/359339/

Blah, blah, blah ...

Bullshit they don't follow Gothard. Everything about them screams Gothard's influence from the way they speak to the way the dress to how they have sex and the size of their family. Jim Bob, Bill Gothard is a man...not a god...and you speak more Gothard than Bible.

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FYI. Jim Bob Duggar's canned statement on the Gothard scandal from the Wire.

thewire.com/culture/2014/04/ ... ou/359339/

Blah, blah, blah ...

So that means they're going to ditch the 49 Character Qualities, the 7 Whatever the fuck rules Gothard made up, etc? I don't think so.

And that, Boob, is not following the Bible, it's following Man. Dumbass.

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Shouldn't the Big Sandy H/S Conference be coming up soon? If it happens; will the Duggars, Bateses, et al attend?

On one of the other threads (I think the general Duggar one), someone posted that not only would they be there but that they, and the Bates, were featured speakers.

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FYI. Jim Bob Duggar's canned statement on the Gothard scandal from the Wire.

thewire.com/culture/2014/04/ ... ou/359339/

Blah, blah, blah ...

So he is avoiding actually answering the question.

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