Lori Alexander:Being treated poorly not grounds for divorce

[J'ean Skirt]

Also, in the past, by the time they were 10, a lot of kids were working themselves, in mines, as servants, as chimney sweeps, on farms and as apprentices--oh, wait, in many parts of the world children still work today.

Not to mention all the children whose mothers were cooks, maids, and nannies for those women who could stay "home" with their kids. What about them? Who raises them?

The whole stay at home mom thing is such a demonstration of privilege and willful blinders. Yes, there are some subset of middle and upper class women who could afford not to work. Throughout time, though, these were a minority of women. And most of them required hired help (guess what? usually other women!!) to run their houses. His biblical marriage? Those women often had slaves or servants.

Ken's world view (and the worldview of the people he parrots) is just so outside of my own reality I can't understand him. He appears to be ignorant of a lot of facts and setting up things to reinforce his view by picking and choosing his facts.

He's not yet given me any reason why I'd want a biblical marriage or why it's somewhat better than my current arrangement with my husband. I see a lot more pain and a lot less happiness in Ken's marriage. The way he talks about his relationship with Lori and his daughters does not lead me to wanting that. It seems ugly, full of conflict and unfulfilling. I'm sure he is telling the truth when he tells me he's happy. But to my eyes he doesn't look happy and that doesn't lead me to want to have a Biblical marriage.

[GeoBQn]

I understand and agree with the "does not grant automatic consent to every single sexual act."

What I do not get is the comment "or for the entire marriage" ???

Til death do us part means a lifetime... unless you did not vow that. There is an implied contract in a marriage that each spouse will reasonably try to meet their partner's sexual needs. We can debate what is reasonable, but it is unreasonable to deny sex but once a month, unless very special circumstances.

Regardless, we deal with the Bible and the Bible says "do not deprive your spouse." So in the Christian marriage is should be reasonable frequency and all of one's sex life.

I added an extra "or" there by accident. That should read "does not grant automatic consent to every sexual act for the entire marriage."

Actually, my vows didn't include "'til death do us part," but Jewish vows are a bit different than what you are used to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketubah

[lipstickgoalie]

Wait jut a minute you sanctimonious little fuckwit. Did you just insinuate that I was incapibale of thinking because of my emotions? Or did you actually insinuate that I was incapibale of thinking because I was abused? What the hell Ken? Either one is insulting, but the second one brings you to an all time low. If you and that horrible wife of yours knew one iota about what abuse is and what to ever say to someone who has been a victim of abuse you wouldn't in a million fucking years say anything like that to anyone who you even suspect as ever having been a victim of abuse. NEVER.

And where exactly did I lie Ken? Where?

And I don't think for a minute that. Lori's advice to interact with the authorities in the case of abuse is genuine. Not when she construes every problem in a relationship as a failure of a woman to properly submit. Everything is excused off as women being overly sensitive. In Lori's world men are never at fault. If you feel abused then you are just being an emotional little woman or a frigid witch.

I don't know why I am even telling you this but no Ken I have never been a victim of abuse verbal, physical, emotional or otherwise. My main interest isn't even biblical submission, it is actually the intersection of fundamentalist religions and political systems. But for your wife I make an exception. Mainly because of your showing up here. So that really backfired for you. I was raised Catholic but am pretty agnostic so no personal interaction with fundamentalist religion or spiritual abuse. Been agnostic as long as I remember. Questioned transubstantiation at age 7 and it was pretty much on from there.

The reason I get beyond angry about what I have read from your wife is twofold.

1) she gives out blanket advice to everyone which is dangerous at best. Here is one case in which the "submit harder" advice she gives out is dangerous and totally wrong. 30% of all veterans in the US have PTSD. There is strong suspicion that more than double that number actually have PTSD but have not engaged with the mental health system. Lori stands a pretty good chance of giving some pretty dangerous advice when she tells a woman any version of "submit harder" without knowing their complete history and the complete history of the relationship. And she does that every day. Every day.

2) Lori advocates a worldview that is dangerous to many women. She speaks from a place of privilege and never acknowledges that privilege. She tells women not to work outside of the home, that they are selfish for using birth control, and that they should have as many kids as possible. Meanwhile she used birth control, which she sabatoged to have a child so she didn't have to go back to work, and she had a nanny as a stay at home mom. That is really saying one thing and doing another. What would happen if you got hit by a bus tomorrow? What if you got hit by a bus 10 years ago? Would she have been able to support her family? Keep the house? Keep the nanny? Maybe, maybe you had some amazing life insurance, but if Lori lived what she preaches and you died she would more likely than not would have ended up destitute. It happens all the time Ken. She is playing with fire.

And all that is before the force feeding, child striking and cat kicking. And don't get me started on the suffrage issue.

Oh and as to the emotion thing, pot calls the kettle. I think you got your man panties in a twist and lashed out at pretty much all of us.

-edited because I forgot something.

Ken I wish you would address this.

[jaynie]

Also, in the past, by the time they were 10, a lot of kids were working themselves, in mines, as servants, as chimney sweeps, on farms and as apprentices--oh, wait, in many parts of the world children still work today.

Sometimes before they were ten -- like in this picture of a four year old girl at work:

Or this girl, an eight year old factory employee, if I remember correctly:

And here's a typical woman, training up her daughters to be godly helpmeets (or, you know, trying to sell baskets so they won't starve):

At least the factory women look a little less miserable at their jobs:

Sorry for the picspam, but this attitude that women all sat around drinking tea and smiling beatifically at their well-kempt children up until Feminism destroyed everything irritates me so much. It takes approximately twelve seconds to disprove -- with photographic evidence (not to mention other kinds of evidence). Arguing otherwise is the height of historical ignorance. Which is not surprising coming from our bloviating visitor here, but nevertheless -- I hope these photos give any fundie-sympathetic lurkers pause for thought.

[formergothardite]

Here is a picture of before feminists "punished" women by giving them equality. As you can tell the mother is a stay at home mom who is really spending quality time with her child so she doesn't miss out on those special moments.

Oh, right, this is reality and she had to work and brought a small child with her to hang out in a dangerous factory. I bet she would have really appreciated a daycare. I'm sure this woman's husband could have cut out the vacations they clearly were taking and she could have stayed at home. :roll:

[latraviata]

The pictures are really heartbreaking!!The cruel reality of poor people.

Women from a different class, you know in their beautiful tea gowns, lovely children, sipping their tea in lush gardens have a bone to pick with our beloved fundies.

They were my educated grandmothers and great grandmothers, they were bored stiff and had an absolutely empty life. For every fart a domestic help, nannies, gardeners.

My paternal great grandmother hanged herself, she couldn't cope with her unfaithful and domineering headship anymore who repeatedly told her 'tais toi et sois belle' which means, shut up and be beautiful.

My grandmother (1880) wanted to study chemistry, she wasn't allowed by her father and the university refused her. She married when she was thirty had 4 children she was outraged for the rest of her life and dedicated her time to the suffragettes movement and helping the poor and needy, so did my maternal grandmother.

They all felt like meaningless ornaments instead of intelligent, curious and equal spouses. They had to deal with e.g. their husbands' mistresses and bastard children.

Divorce or running away was no option because, it was not done and where to go when you financially depend on your husband, even when you had your own money and by law not the power and access to use it.

So, I have no idea what type of women fundies have in mind, but I am afraid they didn't exist other than in the mind of the godly, always learning helpmeets.

[latraviata]

Just to be clear.

By no means it was my intention to compare the lives of my female ancesters to the women forced to work outside the home because of the horrible and excruciating poverty.

It was meant to debunk the idea, that (forced for whatever reason) stay at home mums were not as happy with their lives and marriages as the fundies seem to think they were.

[latraviata]

debunk must be indicate

[cindyluvs24]

Don't forget those horrible ungodly women who worked in the defense industries during WW 2.

[GolightlyGrrl]

Don't forget those horrible ungodly women who worked in the defense industries during WW 2.

Fuck yea! And I totally want this necklace.

On-topic: I shouldn't be surprised that fundies like Ken and Lori have no problem with emotional abuse. After all, the fundies have been emotionally abusing America for the past 30-40 years.

Off-topic: Lori wrote a post about redecorating the family room. I should hope so. Their family room looks like the lobby of a chain hotel.

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2014/03/my-dark-green-carpet.html

[latraviata]

Fuck yea! And I totally want this necklace.

On-topic: I shouldn't be surprised that fundies like Ken and Lori have no problem with emotional abuse. After all, the fundies have been emotionally abusing America for the past 30-40 years.

Off-topic: Lori wrote a post about redecorating the family room. I should hope so. Their family room looks like the lobby of a chain hotel.

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2014/03/my-dark-green-carpet.html

Absolutely, is it a fundie thing, ugly, tasteless interiors??

The redecorating might be a reward for the 10 min. lubricated sacrifice twice a month.

[Anny Nym]

Absolutely, is it a fundie thing, ugly, tasteless interiors??

The redecorating might be a reward for the 10 min. lubricated sacrifice twice a month.

Now, well... that room looks definitely as I expected it to look like (just lurking over from that other thread about Ken/Lori and that "lube issue" :ew: )

And I pity that cat!

[formergothardite]

Is that the poor cat Lori tried to kick?

By the way, he gave me a really good deal because he said I "was so kind! Kindness goes a long way."

I have a relative in sales and in listening to his stories it seems like sales people have a tendency to say stuff like this to make people think they are getting a special deal when really it is just a pre-existing deal that the buyers didn't know about. Apparently people are more likely to come back and buy things when they think you think they are special and will treat them differently than "regular" customers.

[Anny Nym]

Is that the poor cat Lori tried to kick?

By the way, he gave me a really good deal because he said I "was so kind! Kindness goes a long way."

I have a relative in sales and in listening to his stories it seems like sales people have a tendency to say stuff like this to make people think they are getting a special deal when really it is just a pre-existing deal that the buyers didn't know about. Apparently people are more likely to come back and buy things when they think you think they are special and will treat them differently than "regular" customers.

There many seminars and workshops ) for sales persons (my SO works for a company who hosts such), which do teach exactly that as a basic.

In german, it´s called "Den Käufer durch persönliche Bindung an sich binden!", I hope my rough translation "Try to bind the buyer through building a personal bound" hits it ! :lol:

It´s 101 for the simple salesman and we all have encountered this already 100s of times in our lifes without giving that much of an attention to it - but Lori seems to be over the moon about it - maybe it does not happen that often to her? :whistle:

[Anny Nym]

Wait, she kicked the cat too ?!

[J'ean Skirt]

Wait, she kicked the cat too ?!

She kicked at the cat... hard enough she broke her toe when she missed and hit the wall instead.

Evil woman.

[moodygirl86]

She kicked at the cat... hard enough she broke her toe when she missed and hit the wall instead.

Evil woman.

If I'd been the cat's owner I guarantee she would have broken more than her toe.

[Anny Nym]

She kicked at the cat... hard enough she broke her toe when she missed and hit the wall instead.

Evil woman.

Well, there´s that old saying "God punishes small sins immediately!".

:shifty-kitty:

[ShesCrafty]

Is that the poor cat Lori tried to kick?

By the way, he gave me a really good deal because he said I "was so kind! Kindness goes a long way."

I have a relative in sales and in listening to his stories it seems like sales people have a tendency to say stuff like this to make people think they are getting a special deal when really it is just a pre-existing deal that the buyers didn't know about. Apparently people are more likely to come back and buy things when they think you think they are special and will treat them differently than "regular" customers.

Yep, I thought the same thing when I read it. I have been given many awesome "deals" because the sales person thought I was so nice, pretty, had great nails, etc etc. I assure you, I'm not pretty and I'm rarely nice. My nails did look awesome that day, though 8-) .

[feministxtian]

That living room looks like the sitting area in a funeral home...no personality at all. Oh wait...this IS the Alexanders' home we're discussing, right?

[latraviata]

Yep, I thought the same thing when I read it. I have been given many awesome "deals" because the sales person thought I was so nice, pretty, had great nails, etc etc. I assure you, I'm not pretty and I'm rarely nice. My nails did look awesome that day, though 8-) .

I get deals all the time, just 10 minutes and lube does the trick for me. I am not only friendly I am stunningly beautiful, because all the salad and naps.

[samurai_sarah]

I get deals all the time, just 10 minutes and lube does the trick for me. I am not only friendly I am stunningly beautiful, because all the salad and naps.

You forgot to mention your copious use of "black salve", which I am sure was just an oversight. ;)

[Koala]

That living room looks like the sitting area in a funeral home...no personality at all. Oh wait...this IS the Alexanders' home we're discussing, right?

The floor looks effing filthy. Look at the two stains on the bottom right hand corner. NASTY!

[lipstickgoalie]

That living room looks like the sitting area in a funeral home...no personality at all. Oh wait...this IS the Alexanders' home we're discussing, right?

Bite your tongue woman. I am a funeral director's daughter. And that is some BAD decorating over at the Alexander's. Even my dad, who has no decorating sense whatsoever wouldn't allow THAT to happen in his place of work.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Is that the poor cat Lori tried to kick?

By the way, he gave me a really good deal because he said I "was so kind! Kindness goes a long way."

I have a relative in sales and in listening to his stories it seems like sales people have a tendency to say stuff like this to make people think they are getting a special deal when really it is just a pre-existing deal that the buyers didn't know about. Apparently people are more likely to come back and buy things when they think you think they are special and will treat them differently than "regular" customers.

That's what I was thinking. Lori can be naive at times, and may have taken this at face value. I paid less than she paid for a 3 pce new living room set.