Pearls on Anderson Cooper

[slickcat79]

Did the Duggars ever have any association with the Pearls? Like link to their site or books in their original website before TLC cleaned it all up to protect their image? Because if it did, it definately needs to be brought to light to show the true, not perfect side of the Duggars.

It's weird, because I thought about that when I read their first book. I knew that they talked very specifically about blanket training in the book, so I read that section carefully. 20 and Counting has a TON of endnotes and resources that the Duggars have used. Parts of it even sound like an advertisement from a blog, where they got to try out products for free in exchange for a review. They mention the chore packs, the MOTH charts, Ken Hamm's books, and other things that we'd recognize from watching the show and hearing about their "dear friends"...but the Pearls are absent from the list. IIRC, they don't offer any references to where the blanket training idea came from except that it was mentioned by a friend, and TTUAC is not in the resource list.

I wish I could remember the exact language that Michelle used to describe it; I think she said she "corrects" the child when they try to move off the blanket, but nothing was said about how the reader is supposed to offer that correction. I think it's obvious that they were hitting or spanking the kids, but they would never come out and say it.

[Kitty]

I'm so glad that Anderson Cooper is putting the Pearl's methods on television like this, showing the world exactly how horrible their 'training a child' methods really are. Apparently Barnes&Noble doesn't sell the book in their stores anymore.

It was either Lydia Schatz's or Sean Paddock's death that led to B&N pulling it from the shelves. They shouldn't have carried it in the first place :(

[Antigone]

It was either Lydia Schatz's or Sean Paddock's death that led to B&N pulling it from the shelves. They shouldn't have carried it in the first place :(

I'm so glad that Anderson Cooper is putting the Pearl's methods on television like this, showing the world exactly how horrible their 'training a child' methods really are. Apparently Barnes&Noble doesn't sell the book in their stores anymore.

That's awesome to hear, but unfortunately you still can get it on the Nook. Still, at least more light is being shed on the Pearls, and hopefully more and more awareness will be brought to the tragedy they call TTUAC.

And Kitty, It's sad that someone had to die in order for B&N to pull the books off of their shelves, if indeed that was the reason why they did...

[Witsec1]

What's with the dog-beater Dobson story? Haven't heard that one.

One of my childhood friend's father used to say (frequently) - kids and dogs, same training, Beat them hard and love them lots.

My dad beat our dog to death when I was about 6. Kids got beaten with a variety of implements but we survived.

I don't remember a Pearls book in our house but there was lots and lots of Dobson. To date that man's voice makes me feel sick.

Saw part of the story on AC. Heartbreaking, and panic-inducing. Those kids, how will they ever recover?

Dobson describes beating his dachsund in "The Strong Willed Child" - here's an article that quotes from it - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/ ... _8734.html?

[Rosa]

In text that case makes me furious. In pictures and audio...i'm bawling over here. Those poor kids.

And seriously, FUCK the Pearls. Sadistic fucking monsters. "It would be formal" yeah, making a ritual out of your sadism makes it SEEM more rational, but it's a fake veneer over savage cruelty.

[LeatherCouch]

I think it's obvious that they were hitting or spanking the kids, but they would never come out and say it.

Years ago, must have been 8 or so, I belonged to a forum called CMOMB (Christian Moms Of Many Blessings). This was before the TLC show, but Michelle was already a well known figure amongst the QFers. She came and did a guest chat and one of the things she talked about was blanket training. She used flexible rulers and talked about luring the baby off of the blanket and then swatting them with the ruler when they took the bait. The purpose was so that mom could visit with friends, have a phone conversation or go visiting and baby would stay put and quiet. After that chat flexible rulers were the thing, but at that time they weren't at every office supply and warehouse store, so there were lots of posts like "I found them at XYZ for $1.25, how many do you want me to pick up?!" When the TLC specials started airing and the interest in just how exactly they blanket trained babies was heating up I went to try to find a copy of the chat. I found it, but everything about spanking/hitting kids was deleted, as was any reference to Michelle in the flexible ruler threads. They circled the wagons around Michelle pretty fast.

[formergothardite]

I swear that on their original blog they had a link to something with the Pearls. Am I making that up? I can't find it, though, so maybe I am. They cleaned stuff up pretty quickly once they got on TLC.

[Mompom]

The thing is, on that video (which was great), the Pearls are not truly sharing their methods. They aren't talking about the "Training" part. They are talking about punishment, which supposedly they are totally against. They believe that by training babies and young children, you won't HAVE to spank older kids. And what about "defeat him totally" and "sit on him if you have to"? I hope that they get into that book deeper.

[Austin]

She used flexible rulers and talked about luring the baby off of the blanket and then swatting them with the ruler when they took the bait.

:shock:

I really think Michelle Duggar is a fucking bitch. Sorry to her fans here, but that's what I think of that "mother".

[Hisey]

I actually joined CMOMB a few years ago to see if I could find any old Michelle posts (I couldn't). I don't belong anymore--it was too irritating.

I bought my daughter a flexible ruler for school recently--I'd never heard of them before (I don't hit my kids, so I'm out of that loop). I could see how a smack like that could really hurt. And she did that to babies? After enticing them off the blanket?

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I swear that on their original blog they had a link to something with the Pearls. Am I making that up? I can't find it, though, so maybe I am. They cleaned stuff up pretty quickly once they got on TLC.

Yes, they most certainly did. I do not remember if it was a link to the helpmeet book or TTUAC (possibly both), but whatever it was was removed before 17K&C was a show. It was somewhere around the 'moving in' special that it disappeared. I remember this clearly because I was part of a large parenting board and there were approx 3 of us trying to explain to hundreds of others why the Duggars are part of a dangerous cult. This was shortly after I had my rose-colored glasses removed, and I had visited the Duggar's site several times. 2 of us very clearly remembered them linking to the Pearls but it had poofed into thin air. I tried to contact the Duggars in the guise of wanting discipline advice to try to get proof because people did not believe us about the Pearl links, but alas, they never responded.

[formergothardite]

Isn't luring the child to do something and then beating them a Pearl thing? My mom had the book and I remember reading through it and there was a story about him getting a toddler to come near the water, shoving him in, letting him half-drown and doing that over and over until the child is terrified to go near the water.

And all the people I know in ATI who blanket trained did it like LeatherCouch said. Lure the baby off the blanket with a toy or something, beat them and then do it over and over until the child is terrifed to go off the blanket no matter what.

I so wish we could show that side of the Duggars to the world.

[formergothardite]

Yes, they most certainly did. I do not remember if it was a link to the helpmeet book or TTUAC (possibly both), but whatever it was was removed before 17K&C was a show. It was somewhere around the 'moving in' special that it disappeared. I remember this clearly because I was part of a large parenting board and there were approx 3 of us trying to explain to hundreds of others why the Duggars are part of a dangerous cult. This was shortly after I had my rose-colored glasses removed, and I had visited the Duggar's site several times. 2 of us very clearly remembered them linking to the Pearls but it had poofed into thin air. I tried to contact the Duggars in the guise of wanting discipline advice to try to get proof because people did not believe us about the Pearl links, but alas, they never responded.

So I wasn't mis-remembering! Right before the very first special on the Duggars aired, my mom called me up and told me about it because she remembered meeting Michelle when we were in ATI. So I checked out their website and I remember thinking "Oh, their Pearl followers. Poor kids." But, then, like you said, it poofed into thin air.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

Years ago, must have been 8 or so, I belonged to a forum called CMOMB (Christian Moms Of Many Blessings). This was before the TLC show, but Michelle was already a well known figure amongst the QFers. She came and did a guest chat and one of the things she talked about was blanket training. She used flexible rulers and talked about luring the baby off of the blanket and then swatting them with the ruler when they took the bait. The purpose was so that mom could visit with friends, have a phone conversation or go visiting and baby would stay put and quiet. After that chat flexible rulers were the thing, but at that time they weren't at every office supply and warehouse store, so there were lots of posts like "I found them at XYZ for $1.25, how many do you want me to pick up?!" When the TLC specials started airing and the interest in just how exactly they blanket trained babies was heating up I went to try to find a copy of the chat. I found it, but everything about spanking/hitting kids was deleted, as was any reference to Michelle in the flexible ruler threads. They circled the wagons around Michelle pretty fast.

Did you actually see this with your own eyes? I've heard this story many times (it used to come up on TWoP a lot), but have chalked it up to urban legend of the interwebz.

Not that I'm denying it happened. I don't doubt for one second that the older Duggars were blanket trained. But I've never seen anyone actually claim to have been there when she described it like that.

[Turtle]

Years ago, must have been 8 or so, I belonged to a forum called CMOMB (Christian Moms Of Many Blessings). This was before the TLC show, but Michelle was already a well known figure amongst the QFers. She came and did a guest chat and one of the things she talked about was blanket training. She used flexible rulers and talked about luring the baby off of the blanket and then swatting them with the ruler when they took the bait. The purpose was so that mom could visit with friends, have a phone conversation or go visiting and baby would stay put and quiet. After that chat flexible rulers were the thing, but at that time they weren't at every office supply and warehouse store, so there were lots of posts like "I found them at XYZ for $1.25, how many do you want me to pick up?!" When the TLC specials started airing and the interest in just how exactly they blanket trained babies was heating up I went to try to find a copy of the chat. I found it, but everything about spanking/hitting kids was deleted, as was any reference to Michelle in the flexible ruler threads. They circled the wagons around Michelle pretty fast.

:o That is disgusting.

[Austin]

:o That is disgusting.

And the fact that they scrubbed all mention of beating their kids in any venue where Michelle had talked about it shows a consciousness of guilt. If they really thought that it is right to hit their kids, they would have proudly kept those postings up.

[xDreamerx]

Here's what I don't get about blanket training: They make play pens and baby gates. If I wanted my child to stay a space while I was doing something, why not just put him or her in the play pen? Simple and no one gets hurt.

It makes me wonder if some of these people actually like to harm their children.

[formergothardite]

Here's what I don't get about blanket training: They make play pens and baby gates. If I wanted my child to stay a space while I was doing something, why not just put him or her in the play pen? Simple and no one gets hurt.

It makes me wonder if some of these people actually like to harm their children.

Someone in ATI explained it to my mom this way: It is hard to lug around a play pen, but a blanket can be easily folded up and taken anywhere. So anywhere you go you can put down a blanket and then not have to worry about your baby crawling off.

[slickcat79]

Here's what I don't get about blanket training: They make play pens and baby gates. If I wanted my child to stay a space while I was doing something, why not just put him or her in the play pen? Simple and no one gets hurt.

It makes me wonder if some of these people actually like to harm their children.

I think there are a couple of reasons behind not using playpens. Number 1, the goal behind blanket training is to be able to make your kid mind and sit where you put them in any place, whether you're in church or visiting family or whatever. So they have to be able to sit quietly even in places where it's not practical to take a playpen or gate. And being quiet is a big part of it too; it's not just about restraining them, it's about making it so they're not disruptive.

Secondly, they love the attention. They love to hear that their children are so amazingly well-behaved. When their entire lives are wrapped up in being a wife and mother, it makes them feel validated in their choices. Plus, for those who are dominionists, having "perfect" children helps attract others to their lifestyle, which is a major goal.

[galaxygirl]

Isn't luring the child to do something and then beating them a Pearl thing? My mom had the book and I remember reading through it and there was a story about him getting a toddler to come near the water, shoving him in, letting him half-drown and doing that over and over until the child is terrified to go near the water.

:o We just learned how to swim...

[Turtle]

If they don't want to be inconvenienced, they shouldn't have the kid in the first place.

I hope that, if there is a God, they are held accountable for the horrific treatment of every "blessing". I'd like to see them held accountable for it here on earth too actually.

[formergothardite]

:o We just learned how to swim...

That would be way too easy for the Pearls. That and watching your toddler to make sure they don't wander down to the water and drown.

[liltwinstar]

I think the blanket-training is to teach self-control, too - because the baby *can* crawl off the blanket but doesn't - unlike a playpen where the kid is contained. Of course, it's really not self-control, it's fear that keeps the kids on the blankets, but yeah.

I can kind of see a use for "blanket time" in a supernanny "naughty step" sort of way. Not beating the kid, but just saying, ok you need to sit on the "naughty step/blanket" for x minutes or something. Or if your kid is older (like 3 or 4)and at a non-child-proofed house, it *might* be valuable for keeping them a bit contained. But not if you're beating kids for natural curiosity, and not as a part of the daily routine.

After growing up in fundiedom, where kids are considered called blessings but treated as burdens, it's taken me a long time to realize that some parents love their kids and don't *want* to hurt them, that constantly-crying babies aren't the norm, and that being a loving, attentive parent is not going to "spoil" a kid.

[Kaylee]

Did the Duggars ever have any association with the Pearls? Like link to their site or books in their original website before TLC cleaned it all up to protect their image? Because if it did, it definately needs to be brought to light to show the true, not perfect side of the Duggars.

Right now, they have a promotion with amazon.com offering 25% off purchases from the Pearl's websites, and from "Bulk Herb Store", which is run by one of the Pearls' daughters.

The link is: duggarfamily.com/content/amazon_blitz

Here is the description of the Pearls' website, from duggarfamily.com's "Amazon Blitz" promotion:

www.NoGreaterJoy.org

Features some of the finest in family-friendly, value-based books, audios, videos, and articles on parenting, husband and wife relationships, ministry and more! Materials include, To Train Up A Child, Jumping Ship, Created To Be His Help Meet, Preparing To Be A Help Meet, Only Men, the Good and Evil graphic novel in over 20 languages and a FREE bi-monthly magazine.

I also noticed from 2005 until the last website makeover, they linked to "Dr" SM Davis, who is another one who promotes spanking and also wifely submission and is big among many ATI families.

Here are the archived link pages from July 2008:

http://web.archive.org/web/200807250249 ... inks3.html

http://web.archive.org/web/200808200347 ... inks1.html

The Gothard & VF promotion is also much more obvious there.

[Rosa]

Here's what I don't get about blanket training: They make play pens and baby gates. If I wanted my child to stay a space while I was doing something, why not just put him or her in the play pen? Simple and no one gets hurt.

It makes me wonder if some of these people actually like to harm their children.

well, my son learned to escape from the pack n play around 11 months, and he was out of his crib long before that. Child has no fear & was willing to fling himself at/over things to get where he wanted, long before he learned to walk.

That's why people kept recommending blanket training to me - kids don't outsmart it. Because you've broken their will to explore.

But also there's this weird (to me) focus on not making any changes to your life for your kids - not removing breakables from low tables, but teaching your kids to never touch; not adjusting your schedule so your kids gets lots of exercise and has a regular bedtime so they can sleep well, but teaching them to just go to bed when ordered and be quiet and still even if they can't sleep, etc. It's a point of pride for a lot of folks. And in my life they've all been the "children are a blessing! It's selfish to wait! Now that #1 is in a big boy bed it's time to make another, gotta keep that crib filled!"

Like, kids are great! And also you should get to live your life without regard for them, so you can have more!