Nathan and Melanie Maxwell expecting?

[sparkles]

Oh my G-d!!! "ARROW IN THE WOMB"?!?!

Have these people no sense of how that could be taken?

I'm cracking up because all I can think of is a fundie version of Bon Jovi's "Shot Through the Heart" (which is bad enough without any help).

Shot through the heart womb

And you're to blame

Darling, you give love a bad name...

An angel's smile is what you sell

You promise me heaven, then put me through hell

Chains of love got a hold on me

When passion's a prison, you can't break free

Oh, oh, you're a loaded gun (yeah)

Oh, oh, there's nowhere to run

No one can save me

The damage is done

[Justme]

Really? She older then Nathan?

I'm pretty sure she and Nate are the same age, 35/36ish.

[Dru]

I'm cracking up because all I can think of is a fundie version of Bon Jovi's "Shot Through the Heart" (which is bad enough without any help).

Shot through the heart womb

And you're to blame

Darling, you give love a bad name...

An angel's smile is what you sell

You promise me heaven, then put me through hell

Chains of love got a hold on me

When passion's a prison, you can't break free

Oh, oh, you're a loaded gun (yeah)

Oh, oh, there's nowhere to run

No one can save me

The damage is done

That's actually "You Give Love a Bad Name". "Shot Through the Heart" is a different Bon Jovi song. I mean, who's Bon Jovi?

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Melanie's birthday is September 1, 1975. So she is 38, turning 39 this year.

[Coconut Flan]

This could be her last pregnancy. I can hope.

[latraviata]

Oh my G-d!!! "ARROW IN THE WOMB"?!?!

Have these people no sense of how that could be taken?

... Well, naturally, they've never seen the classic paintings of the impaled martyrs, because NAKEDNESS and all that.

But Nathan, dear, the Bible speaks of "arrows in the quiver" for a reason.

See what happens when dulled, constricted minds try for creativity?

Nathan/Poor Sarah, don't give up. Ignore my snarking.. Keep trying to write/act/think outside Steve's mental & spiritual box, but .... "arrow in the womb," just no.

I asked them, isn't it a bit painful an arrow in the womb?

I am afraid they are not going to publish it.

[YPestis]

I had looked through Scamaritan's website a while ago and my understanding is that each member has to "share" a certain amount each month, sending them directly to other member families as determined by Scamaritan, not that members get to pick and choose who they want to support a la the old TV show Queen for a Day (which would be a total clusterfuck).

....

Even though I give the "health sharing" ministries the big ole hairy eyeball, at least this levels the playing field a bit so that well-known families like the Maxwells make out like bandits while the great unwashed godly masses go a-beggin.'

I doubt that anything related to pregnancy and childbirth would EVER not qualify for shares, no matter what the cost, since its pretty much the godliest thing a woman can do. But, given that there are 30,000 member households, if only a few of them had problem pregnancies, premature births and so forth, that $7 million a month is a mere sneeze.

Well, that's at least good that the family will have some money available to them. The company must set policy on what they would cover. I remember Nathan saying he hate the traditional insurance system because it pays for immoral things (i.e birth control, abortions) and pays for people's irresponsible behavior like a diabetic who doesn't eat right. Ironic, as one could accuse Nathan and Melanie of doing just that by continuing with high risk pregnancies. Just as eating is a normal function but one where diabetics must be careful with, pregnancy is a normal human function but where some people have to be careful with getting pregnant.

As was pointed out, $7mil/month is not all that much when you consider the cost of a few major medical complications amongst the 30k quiverful families. They don't call some of these babies "million dollar babies" for nothing. Plus, what happens if the child requires further care beyond the initial NICU stay? Samaritan have a number of things they explicitly don't cover (due to costs). In fact, it doesn't seem it's robust enough to cover families with any significant health issues. Then again, families who require regular hospital stays and expensive medications will probably not go through this route, just because they know they'd get buried in medical bills.....

I still find the Maxwells very irresponsible in continuing to get pregnant despite the health issues Melanie has, and in opting out of traditional insurance. I feel they are taking advantage of our hospital system, knowing that no hospital would kick them out, so they know they can take a cheaper "insurance", thereby allowing them to save money when they are healthy, and still get health care when they really need it.

[ljohnson2006]

I bet Melanie will have another girl. Why can't they be happy with the healthy kids they have? Stop playing God.

[Jana814]

I bet Melanie will have another girl. Why can't they be happy with the healthy kids they have? Stop playing God.

Agree! Like I said in a previous post. Most women if they have a medical history like Melanie would have stopped after 2 kids.

[freethemall]

I asked them, isn't it a bit painful an arrow in the womb?

I am afraid they are not going to publish it.

Actually, I'll be shocked if they don't use it to give you a little lecture over the whole "quiver full of arrows" concept, throw in some bible quotes and "ministry" and whatnot. They may just be yearning for questions like yours!

[ljohnson2006]

It's official. Sarah "I'll be stuck in Hell forever" Maxwell posted about it. I wish them the best, but wonder why they're not content with three?

[anjulibai]

Melanie's birthday is September 1, 1975. So she is 38, turning 39 this year.

Where did you find that?

How old is Nathan I wonder.

[Savoring Samsara]

I used to be Quiverfull, but then I took an arrow to the womb.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Where did you find that?

How old is Nathan I wonder.

Some public record websites. Then on the maxwell blog they mentioned her bday was early September. Nathan is listed as 36 going to be 37 this year I think.

[chaotic life]

My father applied for Scramaritan after his divorce when he lost health insurance benefits and private insurance was going to cost him $800/month that he did not have. You had to have never smoked and not drink. You had to have a character reference from your minister. He was turned down because he has Barrett's esophagus. Back when he was a missionary, he got a massive food poisoning that caused him to vomit so much it caused a hiatal hernia. He didn't understand medical stuff so he just dealt with the annoyance until he got food stuck there years later and finally saw a doctor. It hasn't progressed but technically it's considered pre=cancerous. Thus Scramaritan refused to accept his membership application even though he met every single other requirement because they said he had the potential to be too much of a cost drain if it ever progressed to cancer. They did not care how he got it, just that it was too big of a health risk to accept him.

[Justme]

My father applied for Scramaritan after his divorce when he lost health insurance benefits and private insurance was going to cost him $800/month that he did not have. You had to have never smoked and not drink. You had to have a character reference from your minister. He was turned down because he has Barrett's esophagus. Back when he was a missionary, he got a massive food poisoning that caused him to vomit so much it caused a hiatal hernia. He didn't understand medical stuff so he just dealt with the annoyance until he got food stuck there years later and finally saw a doctor. It hasn't progressed but technically it's considered pre=cancerous. Thus Scramaritan refused to accept his membership application even though he met every single other requirement because they said he had the potential to be too much of a cost drain if it ever progressed to cancer. They did not care how he got it, just that it was too big of a health risk to accept him.

That doesn't sound very Christian. :cry: They will admit people like Nate & Mel given her high risk pregnancies, yet deny someone who may one day have cancer.

Sorry for your Dad's illness.

[lilith]

I had looked through Scamaritan's website a while ago and my understanding is that each member has to "share" a certain amount each month, sending them directly to other member families as determined by Scamaritan, not that members get to pick and choose who they want to support a la the old TV show Queen for a Day (which would be a total clusterfuck).

Even though I give the "health sharing" ministries the big ole hairy eyeball, at least this levels the playing field a bit so that well-known families like the Maxwells make out like bandits while the great unwashed godly masses go a-beggin.'

I doubt that anything related to pregnancy and childbirth would EVER not qualify for shares, no matter what the cost, since its pretty much the godliest thing a woman can do. But, given that there are 30,000 member households, if only a few of them had problem pregnancies, premature births and so forth, that $7 million a month is a mere sneeze.

The whole thing is straight out of Atlas Shrugged, where the Starnes family who owned the Twentieth Century Motor Company tried to institute a health plan based on the motto "From Each According to His Ability, To Each According to His Need" and everyone had to vote on who would receive help. Needless to say, it was an utter failure.

I'd love to see one of their "Needs" newsletters.

The fact that they can arbitrarily decide to refuse to share a "need" if they view it as arising from sinful behaviour is disturbing. So if one of the Coghlan daughters got pregnant out of wedlock, for example, they would be out of luck.

I've read that some families choose to contribute above and beyond their premiums for specific members needs when The Lord lays it on their heart to do so (my iPhone automatically capitalises "The Lord". I must type about the Maxwells too often). I imagine the Maxwells would benefit from that, especially for pregnancies, we all know how much fundies love foetuses.

To the poster earlier in the thread who hoped that Melanie's family would petition for custody of A, B and C Maxwell if she was to die in childbirth - there is no way they could or would while the children have a living father. Poor Sarah would move in to raise the kids until Nathan remarried.

[WonderingInWA]

I agree. Poor Sarah would be the chosen one to raise the kids until Nathan remarried. I hate to even think about that -- I hope very much that Melanie doesn't lose her life due to pregnancy. She's really the closest thing to "sane" the Maxwells have in their family.

[chaotic life]

Sorry for your Dad's illness.

That's the disgusting part. He's NOT sick. He needs to take a med that people normally take for heartburn (something like Prevacid or Propulsid). Then, he's supposed to go every three years to have a scope done to make sure none of the damage in his throat progresses to actual cancer. That's IT. He's been watching it for twenty years and they cannot even find any of the damaged cells now but once they were found once you don't lose the diagnosis later.

He's not sick at all, and he wasn't sick when he applied for Scramaritan. He got divorced and lost his health insurance and because he was over 60 but not yet 65, trying to get private individual health insurance was almost impossible. He finally got health insurance on the federal exchanges this year.

They didn't reject him because he was sick. They rejected him because he had a risk factor that *might* lead to cancer sometime in the future, but he got that risk factor serving as a missionary and not getting adequate health coverage in another country. He would have cost Scramaritan next to nothing, while the Maxwells continue to wrack up crazy high medical bills. Melanie made it to term last pregnancy but she spent most of the pregnancy on bedrest. There's no way she didn't require a Perinatalogist and bi-weekly doctor's appointments and LOTS of ultrasounds to get to term, and there's no way she'll not have the same protocols to get to term this pregnancy.

Scramaritan is a joke.

[YPestis]

They didn't reject him because he was sick. They rejected him because he had a risk factor that *might* lead to cancer sometime in the future, but he got that risk factor serving as a missionary and not getting adequate health coverage in another country. He would have cost Scramaritan next to nothing, while the Maxwells continue to wrack up crazy high medical bills. Melanie made it to term last pregnancy but she spent most of the pregnancy on bedrest. There's no way she didn't require a Perinatalogist and bi-weekly doctor's appointments and LOTS of ultrasounds to get to term, and there's no way she'll not have the same protocols to get to term this pregnancy.

Scramaritan is a joke.

While I agree that Samaritan is not real health insurance, it seems they cherry pick patients based on how "low risk" they appear to be. It doesn't matter if someone can control their conditions, it's the risk that these conditions can progress that scares off Samaritan. Probably, when Melanie first signed on, there was no indication she'd be at risk for high risk pregnancies. That said, fundies in general luuuurve fetuses, so not surprised if Samaritan makes an exception to high risk pregnancies.....

Honestly, Samaritan actually contributes to our health care woes. The purpose of insurance is to spread the risk around. The idea is that out of X number of people, a much smaller number will actually get sick and require expensive procedures. Insurance doesn't work if the sick or those deemed high risk are left out.

Samaritan is not spreading the risk around at all. Rather, they try to cherry pick their clients to maximize their pool of "healthy" patients, and leave out the ones who can potentially get sick. This allows their clients to pay a minimal fee since they are all part of a low risk group. In essence, fundies are abnegating their responsibility to help the sick, deferring to "others" (i.e charity, government etc), to pay for sick people's health care while they enjoy extremely cheap health care.

[lilith]

While I agree that Samaritan is not real health insurance, it seems they cherry pick patients based on how "low risk" they appear to be. It doesn't matter if someone can control their conditions, it's the risk that these conditions can progress that scares off Samaritan. Probably, when Melanie first signed on, there was no indication she'd be at risk for high risk pregnancies. That said, fundies in general luuuurve fetuses, so not surprised if Samaritan makes an exception to high risk pregnancies.....

Honestly, Samaritan actually contributes to our health care woes. The purpose of insurance is to spread the risk around. The idea is that out of X number of people, a much smaller number will actually get sick and require expensive procedures. Insurance doesn't work if the sick or those deemed high risk are left out.

Samaritan is not spreading the risk around at all. Rather, they try to cherry pick their clients to maximize their pool of "healthy" patients, and leave out the ones who can potentially get sick. This allows their clients to pay a minimal fee since they are all part of a low risk group. In essence, fundies are abnegating their responsibility to help the sick, deferring to "others" (i.e charity, government etc), to pay for sick people's health care while they enjoy extremely cheap health care.

They cover pregnancies and premature births, no matter what the history of the woman when she signs on. So long as she's married, of course. I'm pretty sure they don't cover contraceptives either.

[nausicaa]

I agree. Poor Sarah would be the chosen one to raise the kids until Nathan remarried. I hate to even think about that -- I hope very much that Melanie doesn't lose her life due to pregnancy. She's really the closest thing to "sane" the Maxwells have in their family.

Yes, I also believe Melanie is the only one in that family holding them back from falling completely down the Hale-Bopp, Fruit-Aid, Yearning for Zion rabbit hole. With her as a mother, her daughters have a chance.

And God how I've wanted to get a few drinks in that woman and just let her talk...

[twin2]

I so wish they would have counted their three blessings and stopped.

Predictions:

Girl : Deborah (so the can nickname her Debby, they same to like nicknames that end in y)

Boy: Daniel (Danny, same logic)

[VincentvanGoGo]

I used to be an adventurer like you. Then I took an arrow on the knee... Or in this case, on the womb. :shock:

Edit: Oops, sorry Savoring Samsara!

[Jana814]

I so wish they would have counted their three blessings and stopped.

Agree!!