Jesse Maxwell is gonna homeschool

[WonderingInWA]

I saw a comment (since deleted) on one of her blog posts that recommended she buy trim healthy mama's-I googled it, a diet book written by Nancy Cambell of Above Rubies daughters.

People commented after the post saying oh ignore her, your prince won't care about how you look, only your heart. But I think fundies care just as much, if not more about appearances and weight. It's like a godly thing to be slim. I think Rebecca Eleventy will be single for a long long time. Sadly. And agree she doesn't seem delayed. Just not middle class.

I saw that comment, too, and was surprised she allowed it to be posted, then went back a day or two later and saw that it had disappeared. It was unkind, but what's sad is that she probably didn't even know it. It probably took her father to review the comment to determine that it wasn't given in a very positive way.

I think her father oversees her blog. It was especially evident maybe a year or so ago when he posted a statement about his past on her blog (and now I've forgotten what prompted it). He's not bat-shit crazy Steve Maxwell, but he is committed to keeping his daughters on the courtship path and apparently he's not been terribly successful in getting them any suitors.

[RachelB]

I don't think there's much doubt that these articles very pointedly refer to the Maxwells. There must have been a major falling out between the two families at some point. Teri frequently wrote about Debi's books and Debi guest-wrote a Cirner at least once. Hmm...

Interesting comments here.

whitewashedfeminist.wordpress.com/2008/08/15/just-to-prove-that-we-dont-hate-the-pearls/

I bet Steve takes it as a point of honor that he is too far gone for Michael Pearl.

:x

[YPestis]

That's facinating to hear about the history between the Maxwells and Pearls. I didn't realize the two families had a falling out. I remember reading, years ago, Teri offering up the Pearl's book. I think we've known for a few years now that even fundies are disapproving of how the Maxwells raise their family. There's fundies with the crazy quiverful, anti-intellectualism and then there's just crazy cultish behavior that is the Maxwell. Furthermore, their isolation is not helpful to the movement, nor to families, as it prevents adult children from marriage and enables their dependency on their parents. I can't imagine any community thinking that is healthy. The Pearls have many horrible ideas, but they're just part of the human race in their basic understanding of how a community should function. Parents should raise their children and then allow them to get married and start their own lives. That is a fundamental tenet of societies. The Maxwells advocate and live a lifestyle that is unfeasible. It's perhaps a perverted karmic sense of justice that the Maxwells, precisely because of their isolationism, will never spread their ideas. Their children cannot find marriage partners because they don't let their children out! Steve and Teri's crazy ideas will die with their children. Tragic, perhaps, for their children but probably better for the rest of the human race.

As for Rebecca...she's so much better off not married to the crazy Maxwell family.

Rebecca is overweight and from a poor family. She is also homily looking (as seen in her blog pictures) and doesn't appear to stand out in other areas (i.e stylish clothes, gourmet cooking skills etc). But she seems to be a good and happy person. Unfortunately, just like in mainstream society, fundie society values women that are attractive and preferably middle class. Despite the ubiquitous "I know this man who's happily married to this homily girl because she's a great person!" posts, people are attractive to beautiful things.

Fundie or not, men see Rebecca and will not ask to court her at first appearance. If they got to know her, they may come to see her worthy of courting, but fundie rules prevent men from getting to know women before deciding to court. Is it unfair that attractive girls get Princeton Rhodes scholars through their blogs and unattractive gals get nothing? Yes, but that's true in all societies and being a fundie doesn't change that.

I foresee Rebecca maybe getting a call from someone of similar socioeconomic class and appearance (i.e a not-so-attractive man from a lower class family). She'll be married with a husband who will strive to provide for their growing family on a single income. She won't get a Maxwell (thank god!) or anyone near that in economic class because she offers nothing on a superficial level. The people who will court her will be those that know her through her family, or those that are of similar class and appearance who see her through her blog. Is that a fair or good thing? Perhaps not fair, but it's certainly not bad.

[MamaJunebug]

Just spent some time on Rebecca E!!'s blog.

My personal take:

The family are not lower class. Their home looks pretty comfortable, recent (or recently redone), well furnished and clean.

Rebecca is not homely! And she isn't fat. IMHO she's healthier-appearing than the reed-thin Maxgirls.

Yes, her mother is sadly obese - yet she seems to be loved and treasured by her husband!

One of the things I most enjoyed was that the little children in the extended family are allowed to be children, not propped up in front of a camera, nor dressed just-so. One little girl even played on the floor in leggings, no skirt. And -- the little girl or girls whose hair hasn't come in are allowed to live without those outsize bows, headbands and heaven forfend, fake pigtails!!!

Rebecca's family Christmas looked festive, fun and warm. I'm going to believe that she observed the Maxwell blog closely and realized that, were she to successfully be courted by a Maxmale, her world would go from sparkly stars on Christmas trees to something akin to a lifestyle close to that of cloistered monks and nuns - only without any hope of a snort of brandy nor enough hearth-baked bread to result in a little rotundity there or here.

The young woman whose marriage was featured in the blog was also not a stick insect. No, I'm going to remain hopeful for Ms. Rebecca; I think she'll find or be found by some nice fellow suitable for her and they'll make a good marriage and have a nice life together. Yes, I do. :clap:

[love2scrap]

Well-put, mamajunebug.

I just saw this wedding post. The officiating pastor at that ceremony was MARCUS SERVEN....

hiswayserves-hiswayserves.blogspot.sg/2013/10/mark-kaitlyn-ritters-wedding.html?m=1

[thoughtful]

I had read the stuff from Pearl. He could strut, six years ago, since it was not as clear yet what would happen to his children -- after all, one had traveled far away to be a "missionary."

But, at this point, while Pearl's children might not be as locked up as the Maxwells (who is?), most are not exactly out of the fold and independent, and none seem to have any skills except what their parents could teach them.

[bluelady]

I also spent some time on Rebecca's blog and I don't think she has any delay either. Nor do I think she's overweight. It's easy to look frumpy and dumpy in clothes that have no structure to them and/or are not in style.

At the same time, I was scrolling through quickly and I had to stop and scroll back up because I couldn't figure out why they had make penises out of snow. Turns out it was a nativity scene. Oops. :lol:

[WonderingInWA]

I also spent some time on Rebecca's blog and I don't think she has any delay either. Nor do I think she's overweight. It's easy to look frumpy and dumpy in clothes that have no structure to them and/or are not in style.

At the same time, I was scrolling through quickly and I had to stop and scroll back up because I couldn't figure out why they had make penises out of snow. Turns out it was a nativity scene. Oops. :lol:

Right, there is no looking svelt in a frumper, that's for sure. You really can't tell what's under there. I think Rebecca and her sister both have really broad shoulders which makes them both appear large. And Rebecca tends to have dark circles under her eyes and I've often wondered if that's due to her nutrition. Just pure speculation and something we've talked about before here. Her mother has them, too.

[Hane]

Rebecca tends to have dark circles under her eyes and I've often wondered if that's due to her nutrition. Just pure speculation and something we've talked about before here. Her mother has them, too.

They may just be hereditary. Lots of us in my family have them, and there are no nutrition issues.

[nausicaa]

They may just be hereditary. Lots of us in my family have them, and there are no nutrition issues.

Agreed. I'm the same, and my coloring would look a lot like Rebecca's if I didn't wear any make up or dye my hair and was taking a lot of pictures of myself. Hell even now I look somewhat sickly in a lot of photos.

I do think she's a bit overweight, but mostly just curvy. Her very cheap, unsupportive bras don't help (especially noticeable in the 22nd birthday pics where they're playing volleyball) and neither do the ill fitting clothes. If she and her sister could buy some things more in style and more flattering, style their hair, and put a little eye make up on they would be considered quite attractive I think.

I do think they're sweet girls, and hope everything works out for them and they find some nice farm boys who love cake and just think they hung the moon.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

I had read the stuff from Pearl. He could strut, six years ago, since it was not as clear yet what would happen to his children -- after all, one had traveled far away to be a "missionary."

But, at this point, while Pearl's children might not be as locked up as the Maxwells (who is?), most are not exactly out of the fold and independent, and none seem to have any skills except what their parents could teach them.

Interesting. I wonder if he ever thinks back to the words he wrote and wonder where he went so wrong with his own children? Or is he too proud of himself to be self-reflective?

I've often felt that beating your kids into submission must also beat the lifespark out of them. While these fundies are busy raising kids who are ghostly mirrors of themselves the rest of us know that a child must be allowed to have their own opinions and ways of doing things if they are to be successful in life. I'm not raising a robot, I'm not raising a clone. I'm raising a well rounded person with ideas and plans that constantly surprise me-- sometimes delightfully, sometimes not. In order to drive out all non-Christian ideas and rebelliousness, the Maxwells, the Pearls, and all the rest of the fundies have squeezed their children to death.

[darkplumaged]

Rebecca isn't ugly at all, just plain and not photogenic. (I should know--I look terrible in pictures unless I'm wearing a Lyndsie-like amount of makeup. Photos suck all the color and structure out of my face. Looks like the same is true for Rebecca.)

I agree that she's a sweet soul who could make a nice guy very happy. It's good that she's commenting much less, if at all, on the Maxblog. Maybe she doesn't idolize them as much anymore. Pulling away from their cray-cray is a smart move.

And just to get some snark in here, because Rebecca doesn't deserve it: There were cheese puffs at the Ritter wedding. Oy.

[Hane]

I wish I could take Rebecca to the mall and a salon for a makeover. Like her, I'm pale and have baby- fine hair, and am considerably more plus-sized. I'd love to help her learn how to use makeup, find a flattering hairstyle, and choose clothes that make the best of her body type. Fit, style, and color are so important. We could even have a sewing party, and it would be a lot more fun than a Maxwell one. I want her to be happy, dammit.

I think her dad is the main reason Rebecca would never prove Steve-worthy: hasn't he had some kind of relationship and kids before he married Rebecca's mom?

[WonderingInWA]

I wish I could take Rebecca to the mall and a salon for a makeover. Like her, I'm pale and have baby- fine hair, and am considerably more plus-sized. I'd love to help her learn how to use makeup, find a flattering hairstyle, and choose clothes that make the best of her body type. Fit, style, and color are so important. We could even have a sewing party, and it would be a lot more fun than a Maxwell one. I want her to be happy, dammit.

I think her dad is the main reason Rebecca would never prove Steve-worthy: hasn't he had some kind of relationship and kids before he married Rebecca's mom?

The description of his book on Amazon lists him as a father of 5, yet we only ever see Rebecca and Annah and the other 3 kids are never mentioned. There are a couple of younger married couples that seem to be family who have young babies/children, but the relationships have never been explained.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Just spent some time on Rebecca E!!'s blog.

My personal take:

Rebecca is not homely! And she isn't fat. IMHO she's healthier-appearing than the reed-thin Maxgirls.

Yes, her mother is sadly obese - yet she seems to be loved and treasured by her husband!

Rebecca's family Christmas looked festive, fun and :

I'm sorry but as a health professional Rebecca is fat. There is no way she is NOT considered an overweight BMI. I do BMI's for patients all day long and she is overweight. Borderline obese.

Sometimes people have such a skewed view on what is overweight that they will not accept they are, 'but I'm skinnier than my friends!' yup...still fat.

Everything else you said, I agree 100% :)

[thoughtful]

Interesting. I wonder if he ever thinks back to the words he wrote and wonder where he went so wrong with his own children? Or is he too proud of himself to be self-reflective?

Oh, there is no way Michael Pearl could ever see his own failure. I would imagine that he either feels his offspring are fabulous in every way, or he doesn't care if they are happy or successful as long as they are still believers.

Even if he does think they turned out shitty and wishes he could still discipline them, he'd never admit that to anyone.

[acheronbeach]

I'm sorry but as a health professional Rebecca is fat. There is no way she is NOT considered an overweight BMI. I do BMI's for patients all day long and she is overweight. Borderline obese.

Sometimes people have such a skewed view on what is overweight that they will not accept they are, 'but I'm skinnier than my friends!' yup...still fat.

Everything else you said, I agree 100% :)

As a not health professional, I call bullshit. Are you telling me that a doctor or nurse like you can look at a woman in a loose dress, without her height, weight, fitness level or health conditions and tell me that she's got a bmi that's "borderline" 30?

She has an odd facial structure, and she's not picking clothing that flatters her whatsoever, but she doesn't look borderline obese to me. It's the fundie-ness that would drive the men away, not her appearance or personality. She's not a bad looking girl, she seems happy and fun, and she seems to have her own interests.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Acheron, you're right, I can't diagnose her as obese or overweight but I think people are kidding themselves she's not overweight. I might be wrong, it's happened before ;)

However when I guess (obviously not out loud!) before I do the BMI I have only ever thought someone was a normal weight when they were overweight, not the other way around.

I know weight is a very sensitive topic with a lot if people on FJ so I won't comment anymore on Rebecca's weight.

Sorry if I have offended anyone , not my intention.

[YPestis]

I know weight is a very sensitive topic with a lot if people on FJ so I won't comment anymore on Rebecca's weight.

I think there is a sensitivity on this board with calling someone overweight or obese, however few seem offended when someone is pejoratively labelled "skinny". I find this treatment also a product of our society's fat shaming. Because so much of society makes fun of for being fat, a backlash ensues where some people start calling people too skinny with the same negative connotation. Perhaps it's good that I have relatives in rural China that still consider 'fat' merely an observation, not an insult. Growing up, I was never overweight, but had the typical bulk of a North Chinese girl (with southern Chinese relatives). I was labelled fat by my relatives over there, but it slid off me because I knew it was not an insult. Fat and skinny are labels to describe someone. I wish our country could go back to treating it as such, rather than as veiled insults.

I do think Rebecca appears overweight in the pictures and sickly and pale. And I say this bearing no malice towards her. Perhaps with makeup, hair, better outfits and lighting, she would look nice. However, I only have her pictures to go by and the same goes for the fundie courting world. I don't think most fundie men will look at her pictures and think her in the same vein as Sarah Maxwell or the Botkin girls.

Rebecca's pictures actually looks a lot like a good friend of mine. She looked slightly better in real life than in pictures, but admitted to me she knows she's not conventionally attractive. However, my friend can venture out to meet guys. Once someone gets to know her, people like her. My friend's physicality does not define her. Rebecca will probably not get that chance because of the restrictions put on courtships. I think Rebecca will get courted, but probably by someone who already knows her through the family.

To me, Rebecca's situation is exactly what's wrong with modern day courtships. The actual courting model is based on the traditional idea of arranged marriages which was based on pragmatism. People met a few times after having been vetted for pedigree, status, income etc. There is no expectation for full on love because marriages was about joining families, not just the couple. Modern day sensibilities dictate that we must "fall" in love before marriage. That's hard to do when you barely know the person. And so physical attractiveness becomes a bigger factor. A young man may convince himself that he's "fallen" for a young beauty, even if he's only met her briefly. It's much harder to convince him of love if the girl is unattractive.

[justakitten]

What is Rebecca's blog? I can't seem to find it. Thanks!

[treemom]

I'm sorry but as a health professional Rebecca is fat. There is no way she is NOT considered an overweight BMI. I do BMI's for patients all day long and she is overweight. Borderline obese.

Sometimes people have such a skewed view on what is overweight that they will not accept they are, 'but I'm skinnier than my friends!' yup...still fat.

Everything else you said, I agree 100% :)

I am so glad health care professionals are good at calling people fat.

[treemom]

In the US skinny is something that attempt to be and fat isn't. In other countries those words may have the equivalent negative connotation but they don't in the US. So it is ok that people get pissed when someone calls someone else fat in the us. Now, stick thin certainly has a negative connotation. Here is what I don't get, weight is the product of many things genes, financial standing, emotions, behavior. I am overweight and overweight mostly from my own doing (although I do believe I am genetically predisposed to be heavier) but it is a comment in my relationship with food, not my self worth.

I am often shocked to see people discuss weight as if that defines if a person is good or bad. Or as if weight wholly defines health. A person who is overweight is not intrinsically a bad person or worthy of scorn.

[treemom]

And fat isn't a veiled insult, in the US it is a pretty direct insult.

[Jinderella]

In the US skinny is something that attempt to be and fat isn't. In other countries those words may have the equivalent negative connotation but they don't in the US. So it is ok that people get pissed when someone calls someone else fat in the us. Now, stick thin certainly has a negative connotation. Here is what I don't get, weight is the product of many things genes, financial standing, emotions, behavior. I am overweight and overweight mostly from my own doing (although I do believe I am genetically predisposed to be heavier) but it is a comment in my relationship with food, not my self worth.

I am often shocked to see people discuss weight as if that defines if a person is good or bad. Or as if weight wholly defines health. A person who is overweight is not intrinsically a bad person or worthy of scorn.

:clap:

[sparkles]

I am often shocked to see people discuss weight as if that defines if a person is good or bad. Or as if weight wholly defines health. A person who is overweight is not intrinsically a bad person or worthy of scorn.

Overweight people are, themselves, often just as guilty of this thinking. I'm a lifetime member of WW and I hear it all the time in meetings (blech). Occasionally, a leader will pose the question "What's going to change for you when you lose the weight?" And the answers invariably are "I'll like myself better," "I'll be able to do (fill in the blank--and it's generally NOT something that you wouldn't be able to do because of weight)," "I'll be happy," "I'll meet Mr./Ms. Right," "People will like me" and so on as if weight loss alone is a magic pill. (FTR, MY answer is "I'll weigh less" and it's generally not an answer that's well received.) And I've often heard overweight people--who complain bitterly that they can't find a romantic partner because of their weight--say that THEY would never consider dating someone who had weight issues. While it's definitely a reflection of general perceptions of overweight people, as with most things, change has to start from from within.