Zero Population Growth: It's up to you, no more than two.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Saw some people freaking out over this on FB.

lifesitenews.com/news/its-up-to-you-no-more-than-two-huge-population-control-sign-hung-in-indiana

“My jaw hit the floor,†Hollowell wrote. “This is about the most messed up thing I've seen in a long time. We might as well have Nazi flags hanging in the hallway. What does that say to kids from families bigger than two kids? Reproduction is a problem? The math teacher I went to visit across the hall just had his third child today. Are he and his wife contributing to the downfall of humanity for welcoming human life?â€

But one student commenter said it was a student-created work that won a competition years ago and was never taken down. “I attended this high school and walked past this banner for four years,†the student wrote. “It was made for an Earth Day contest who knows how many years ago … and happened to win.â€

Another student agreed, stating, “I don't think it gets hung up every year; I think it has STAYED up. Being above the lockers, it doesn't get a lot of abuse.â€

But after Fr. Hollowell and some of his blog readers complained to the school about the banner, it was finally taken down.

The poster’s message is reminiscent of propaganda signs used in anti-fertility campaigns around the world, including in Singapore, where government officials, concerned about overpopulation, promoted a two-child policy with highly visible posters and billboards advertising the “Stop at Two†campaign. In addition to the ubiquitous propaganda posters, the Singaporean government imposed sanctions on families who had more than the recommended two children – including fines, reduced priority for government housing, and limiting third and later offspring to bottom-tier schools.

Over the past 30 years, worldwide, birth rates have fallen by more than 50 percent. According to the United Nations Population Fund, by the middle of the 21st century, worldwide fertility will be below replacement level. In most developed nations, this is already the case. Replacement level in the developed world is 2.1 children per family. In the EU, the birth rate is 1.5. In Russia, it’s 1.17. In the U.S., it’s 1.89. In Japan, it’s 1.3. All of these societies are aging, and as older generations die off, there will not be enough young people to replace them in the workforce or maintain the infrastructure they have built, which will likely lead to drastic social and economic decline.

[GeoBQn]

There were two Captain Planet episodes about population control. One of them actually ends with a tag telling kids, "When it is time for you to have a family, don't have more than two kids!" It came across as hilariously misguided. I'm not sure how effective that message is when it is directed at 2nd graders, especially when they haven't learned about birth control yet . . .

[Childless]

So, let me get this straight, fundies can champion the quiverfull philosophy, but others can't champion their population replacement philosophy? Hypocritical much?

[Ms Jess]

Really? The most messed up thing? Really?! I want a life wherein this is the most messed up thing I see in a long time. I think that would be pretty rosy life. Also, what is with the overuse of Nazis as a comparison? I can think of only a few events that truly compare to the Holocaust and this definitely isn't one of them.

[Conuly]

Yeah, the Nazis were not at all about reducing population growth. A better comparison might be, oh, I don't know, Communist China? Sheesh, people, get your comparisons straight! What on earth is this world coming to?

[guidedbybobafett]

Lol "Nazis". These people have no fucking idea what they're talking about and it's pathetic and sad.

[JesusFightClub]

When I was a kid, I had one teacher who taught with a massive hammer and sickle flag behind his head (the old Soviet flag). He had philosophical reasons for doing that, none particularly relevant here, but I bet that would have shocked a few Americans. (Not all the senior management or parents loved it either.)

That flag, and the zero population flag, aren't the same as the Nazi flag. For a start, Nazi flags and emblems are a direct threat to other students in the school.

[Minerva]

Life Site "News" is running out of things to be butthurt about, I see. I'd suggest poverty and child abuse as something to be angry about, but that's not the kind of "life" they worry about.

I'm tempted to read the blog post and find out whether the math teacher actually give two shits about the poster, but it's not important enough to be giving LSN clicks.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I don't think any political organization has any business telling people how many kids they should or shouldn't have.

[lawlifelgbt]

What about if you're gay? Do partner and I still get to have two, or is it two each, because presumably zero growth if each woman has two kids? I don't want to be pregnant- is it okay for her to have four, then?

Also, QF adherents are all about having eleventy kids, but if we did, they'd throw holy fits.

[August]

It's sadly not ironic that the only reason the US isn't like other first world countries wrt birth rate is the fundies campaigning to keep kids ignorant, contraception expensive, and families poor.

[singsingsing]

So what happens if you have three kids? Do they track you down after you graduate and put you on the wall of shame? Both sides in this are idiotic, tbh. I'll have as few or as many kids as I like.

[Minerva]

So what happens if you have three kids? Do they track you down after you graduate and put you on the wall of shame? Both sides in this are idiotic, tbh. I'll have as few or as many kids as I like.

This. Shaming people for their reproductive choices sucks.

[Stephanie66]

Yeah. People should have as many kids as they would like. Period.

[Childless]

Yeah. People should have as many kids as they would like. Period.

I disagree with this statement. People should have as many kids as they can realistically care for themselves. If you have so many kids that you can't afford to feed them, clothe them, or must turn your older children into full time caregivers, then you have to many children and I'll call you out on it.

[Kailash]

I have no problem with that sign. It's like the forest fires one- only YOU can prevent forest fires. To me it is stating a fact. I don't feel any judgement from that sign, only a reminder.

[Emme]

Lol "Nazis". These people have no fucking idea what they're talking about and it's pathetic and sad.

When in doubt, name drop the Nazis! Fecking idiots!

I'll have more than two, but I'll probably only have one bio kid and adopt after that.

[Anise]

Bunny trail: maintaining population replacement rate does not mean that people cannot have more than two children. Plenty of people still choose to one or be childfree, so it can balance out in the end.

[jaynie]

Bunny trail: maintaining population replacement rate does not mean that people cannot have more than two children. Plenty of people still choose to one or be childfree, so it can balance out in the end.

Relatedly, I have heard it theorized that as women gain more control over their reproductive choices, the birth rate tends to even out to replacement rate or just below it. I don't know whether that's based on actual data or on speculation, but its certainly worth keeping in mind. Like you said, those who choose to have a whole quiver full are ideally balanced out by those who choose to be childfree, plus (to some extent, depending on reproductive technologies available) infertile and same-sex couples. I'd say reproductive freedom is certainly preferable to an enforced one-or-two child policy, as far as population control goes.

That said, from what's written on this forum it seems that this poster was made by a student. I think simplifying the issue (and perhaps being a little ideological and dogmatic) is fairly typical for that age, and since it apparently won a contest I can understand the school keeping it up out of pride.

[2xx1xy1JD]

The freak-out was misguided. The poster looks like the student-created art that it was. If the hallways were plastered with official, school-board sanctioned "No More Than Two" posters, it might be a different story.

FWIW, I don't think that "No More Than Two" is a particularly useful message. Another person on the planet is another person on the planet - no matter whether they are the first or third in their family. If anything, those from smaller families may use more resources per capita than those from larger families, since there is likely to be more disposable income available per child, and since items are less likely to be passed down and reused. Strictly in terms of resources, it would probably be most efficient to have designated "breeder families", while others don't have kids at all. Of course, this would be opposed as draconian and an invasion of personal liberty - which is sort of how I'd feel about someone telling me I should have stopped after two.

[Stephanie66]

I disagree with this statement. People should have as many kids as they can realistically care for themselves. If you have so many kids that you can't afford to feed them, clothe them, or must turn your older children into full time caregivers, then you have to many children and I'll call you out on it.

I don't agree with forcing abortion or birth control on women any more than I agree with forcing birth on women. It's not MY choice to make for any other woman. I may not agree with their choices (with an abortion OR with another child) but it's NOT my decision to make.

[Conuly]

I don't agree with forcing abortion or birth control on women any more than I agree with forcing birth on women. It's not MY choice to make for any other woman. I may not agree with their choices (with an abortion OR with another child) but it's NOT my decision to make.

If you feel free to disagree with their choices, how is that different from what she said? She said she thinks it is immoral and she doesn't mind telling them so, not that she wishes she could forcibly neuter them. It might be rude to say to somebody's face* that you think they're a shitty parent and an awful human being, but as a general principle I don't think "try not to have more children than you can reasonably afford" is a particularly awful statement.

* unless they ask, in which case, fuck, they should've known better than to ask somebody whose honest opinion has got to be known already.

[Carla Bruni]

Actually, statistics (ebil science~*) show that as fertility rates drop, GDP per capita goes up, and with that comes higher educational attainment, more doctors per capita, more hospital beds per capita, longer life expectancy, higher vax rates, greater telcom penetration (important in development leapfrogging schemes - e.g. mobile banking in Africa), etc etc etc. And, obviously, to their great chagrin, more gender equality. Whoever wrote that article is an idiot - youth bulge is NEVER EVER EVER a good thing (higher unemployment, lower educational attainment, more crime, more violence).