Pope Francis called right-wing fundamentalism a sickness

[treemom]

Except there is a lot of ideological fundamentalist and fundie lite Catholics. I know several whose political and moral ideology is indistinguishable from southern and independent baptists.

[Diana]

It isn't exactly like Catholics and Protestants are historically known to be bffs. I doubt the fundies care, they probably believe the line that Catholics worship Mary over Jesus and God and you know how they feel about women... Rome also doesn't have the power to persecute protestants anymore (well certainly not in America) so it will be water off their backs.

he was speaking about christians and that includes also catholic people from movements like opus dei or kikos, who ideologically are very much like protestant fundamentalists

by the way for me this people are a big problem for catholic church at least here in spain where today most of the practicant christians at least the young ones are part of this movements that seem sects to anybody else

[ohnomoe]

Thanks for the clarification, that makes it more interesting/meaningful.

[outrunningzombies]

Except there is a lot of ideological fundamentalist and fundie lite Catholics. I know several whose political and moral ideology is indistinguishable from southern and independent baptists.

Exactly. I mean, look at Abigail and the new 4 or 5 kids with 2 CF kids and no plans to quit cranking out babies.

[NurseNell]

Exactly. I mean, look at Abigail and the new 4 or 5 kids with 2 CF kids and no plans to quit cranking out babies.

Abigail doesn't have any children with CF. She has the potential but to date has had none with it. She also represents a very tiny minority of Catholics in this country. American Catholics tend to be politically liberal, vote Democrat, and do not have large families. I have been Catholic my entire life and I know very few Catholics whose political and moral ideology is indistinguishable from Southern and Independent Baptists.

[treemom]

Abigail doesn't have any children with CF. She has the potential but to date has had none with it. She also represents a very tiny minority of Catholics in this country. American Catholics tend to be politically liberal, vote Democrat, and do not have large families. I have been Catholic my entire life and I know very few Catholics whose political and moral ideology is indistinguishable from Southern and Independent Baptists.

I think some of that is where you live vs where I live. Even in south bend where I "grew up" catholic has changed since I was in high school.

And the catholic I encountered by actively practicing Catholics in Memphis is pretty far from the same demographic in south bend.

None that I know that attend mass regularly, etc. would consider themselves liberal or democrat. I have lots that are Catholic but don't actively practice because of their feelings about the conservative catholic agenda.

And way more Catholics that I would eect are socially conservative. And support the death Penalty. Two things I find in contrast to catholic doctrine.

[NurseNell]

I think some of that is where you live vs where I live. Even in south bend where I "grew up" catholic has changed since I was in high school.

And the catholic I encountered by actively practicing Catholics in Memphis is pretty far from the same demographic in south bend.

None that I know that attend mass regularly, etc. would consider themselves liberal or democrat. I have lots that are Catholic but don't actively practice because of their feelings about the conservative catholic agenda.

And way more Catholics that I would eect [sic] are socially conservative. And support the death Penalty. Two things I find in contrast to catholic doctrine.

There probably is some difference between Catholics in Memphis and those where I live but Catholics are a minority in the South. I lived in Alabama for 3 years. But even there most of our parish were liberals and voted Democrat. Southern Catholics were more in favor of the death penalty. In St. Paul, MN, which is as Catholic as South Bend Catholics are liberal, vote Democrat, and are opposed to the death sentence. The official teaching of the Church is that the death penalty is wrong. I only know a few Catholics who support it and those are people I know on line, not in real life. I probably know a lot more Catholics than you do and the majority of my Catholic friends do attend Mass and are active in the life of the Church. We are liberal, vote Democrat, and are involved in social justice which includes being opposed to the death sentence.

[Mama Mia]

There probably is some difference between Catholics in Memphis and those where I live but Catholics are a minority in the South. I lived in Alabama for 3 years. But even there most of our parish were liberals and voted Democrat. Southern Catholics were more in favor of the death penalty. In St. Paul, MN, which is as Catholic as South Bend Catholics are liberal, vote Democrat, and are opposed to the death sentence. The official teaching of the Church is that the death penalty is wrong. I only know a few Catholics who support it and those are people I know on line, not in real life. I probably know a lot more Catholics than you do and the majority of my Catholic friends do attend Mass and are active in the life of the Church. We are liberal, vote Democrat, and are involved in social justice which includes being opposed to the death sentence.

Yeah, that describes almost all of the Catholics I've known? The emphasis is definitely on social justice - in this area there is a big focus on working to help immigrants.

[mrs]

When I attend mass (now once or twice a year with family) we often pray to end the the death penalty. I second Mrs2004, social justice is a very big part of the Catholic community.

Edited to fix typo.

[treemom]

There probably is some difference between Catholics in Memphis and those where I live but Catholics are a minority in the South. I lived in Alabama for 3 years. But even there most of our parish were liberals and voted Democrat. Southern Catholics were more in favor of the death penalty. In St. Paul, MN, which is as Catholic as South Bend Catholics are liberal, vote Democrat, and are opposed to the death sentence. The official teaching of the Church is that the death penalty is wrong. I only know a few Catholics who support it and those are people I know on line, not in real life. I probably know a lot more Catholics than you do and the majority of my Catholic friends do attend Mass and are active in the life of the Church. We are liberal, vote Democrat, and are involved in social justice which includes being opposed to the death sentence.

They are a smaller group of Christians yes, but they are certainly nowhere near a religious minority. I was simply explaining why I know some whose political and moral ideology is the same as conservative baptists. I was not trying to paint all Catholics with the same brush. You said you know very few like that and I in fact have known lots like them and feel like there has been a conservative movement in Catholicism in the last 20 years. We can disagree. It isn't a big deal.

I used the death penalty precisely because it is against catholic doctrine. And who knows if you know more Catholics than I do. I am not going to start counting them for the I know a catholic contest.

But staunchly conservative Catholics exist and in an area that is already conservative, there tend to be more of them.

[treemom]

When I attend mass (now once or twice a year with family) we often pray to end the the death penalty. I second Mrs2004, social justice is a very big part of the Catholic community.

Edited to fix typo.

That's my point. In that there are Catholics who have moved to the right politically and part of it is because of the polarizing issues of abortion and gay marriage and the obsession church leadership had over them. That drove many already more conservative Catholics farther to the right.

I know what catholic doctrine is, and the importance of social justice. The polarizing issues have clouded the importance of it in recent years,

[ILoveJellybeans]

Good. Cause it is. Fundies give other normal Christians a bad name.

[dawbs]

Basically, it is ok to judge Christians but not gays. Interesting.

There's also a drastically different set of 'standards' for judging (and this is explained somewhat throughout the new testament).

If someone proclaims publicly, their Christianity and then behaves like a boor, it's actually supposed to be the responsibility of 'their brethren' to assist and rebuke.

If someone proclaims publicly, their non-Christianity, then their behavior isn't really supposed to be held up to the Christian measuring tape.

[Mama Mia]

They are a smaller group of Christians yes, but they are certainly nowhere near a religious minority. I was simply explaining why I know some whose political and moral ideology is the same as conservative baptists. I was not trying to paint all Catholics with the same brush. You said you know very few like that and I in fact have known lots like them and feel like there has been a conservative movement in Catholicism in the last 20 years. We can disagree. It isn't a big deal.

I used the death penalty precisely because it is against catholic doctrine. And who knows if you know more Catholics than I do. I am not going to start counting them for the I know a catholic contest.

But staunchly conservative Catholics exist and in an area that is already conservative, there tend to be more of them.

I think your point about region making a difference in what is stressed is really accurate. In conservative areas the emphasis is more likely to be on abortion, same sex marriage, etc. in more generally liberal areas the emphasis is different. I don't think that just applies to Catholics. Even the most conservative fundie-light people that I know are going to mostly talk about helping the poor, or saving drug addicts or getting people to be more committed to prayer. They may be against marriage equality or abortion, but it isn't something they are going to emphasize. They are more likely to do a single parents support group or find a room for a pregnant mom than to protest at an abortion clinic.

[treemom]

Maybe. All independent Baptists I know obsess over what I consider to be right wing ideology. I also think the high poverty rate and socioeconomic problems play into it as well.

I have a handful of very conservative friends but they aren't assholes and we tread lightly around each other because I feel like they treat people well. But most of my friends fall on the left side of Liberal. and there are many Catholics in that group.

[sea_gale]

We're overdue a Chick tract on how evil Tims are...

[NurseNell]

I used the death penalty precisely because it is against catholic doctrine. And who knows if you know more Catholics than I do. I am not going to start counting them for the I know a catholic contest.

But staunchly conservative Catholics exist and in an area that is already conservative, there tend to be more of them.

I just believe that those of us who are Catholic, have always been Catholic, and still are active in the Church probably know more Catholics than a non-Catholic living in an area of few Catholics. And we probably understand Catholic history and theology to a greater degree. You no doubt know more Jews than I do even though I have some Jewish family members and friends. And I know some Jewish history and theology but you know more.

And yes, staunchly conservative Catholics exist. I had to spend a dinner once seated at a table with the publisher of The Wanderer. Don't think that wasn't hard to endure. There is no more conservative Catholic paper in the country than The Wanderer. In ultra liberal Catholic St. Paul, MN is the island of St. Agnes Church and School, an icon of conservative Catholicism. My older son went to high school there. I know conservative Catholics. They remain a small minority in an otherwise liberal American Church.

[Hane]

Catholic conservatism often crosses the blurry line into political conservatism. The more conservative Catholics are likely to endorse the death penalty and oppose what we would consider advances in racial equality--even though those attitudes are in direct violation of Church teachings on social justice.

Nauseating but true: Back in the '80s, the head honcho of the Connecticut KKK (there is such an animal, sadly) announced that he was Catholic and that the KKK now "welcomed" Catholics. (Yup, the Church will excommunicate people who endorse abortion rights but won't touch these sumbitches.)

I thought it all was charming, since the KKK used to burn crosses on my Italian-American Catholic relatives' lawns in upstate New York in the early 1900s, scaring many of them into Anglicizing their surnames.

[NurseNell]

Catholic conservatism often crosses the blurry line into political conservatism. The more conservative Catholics are likely to endorse the death penalty and oppose what we would consider advances in racial equality--even though those attitudes are in direct violation of Church teachings on social justice.

Nauseating but true: Back in the '80s, the head honcho of the Connecticut KKK (there is such an animal, sadly) announced that he was Catholic and that the KKK now "welcomed" Catholics. (Yup, the Church will excommunicate people who endorse abortion rights but won't touch these sumbitches.)

I thought it all was charming, since the KKK used to burn crosses on my Italian-American Catholic relatives' lawns in upstate New York in the early 1900s, scaring many of them into Anglicizing their surnames.

In the 1950's I often had trouble sleeping at night because I was afraid the KKK would visit us, this was in upstate NewYork too. They did burn a cross on the property of Fulton J. Sheen, well known Catholic priest.

I read a few years ago that CT is the state with the greatest growth in KKK members. Scary!

[Hane]

In the 1950's I often had trouble sleeping at night because I was afraid the KKK would visit us, this was in upstate NewYork too. They did burn a cross on the property of Fulton J. Sheen, well known Catholic priest.

I read a few years ago that CT is the state with the greatest growth in KKK members. Scary!

Tell me about it, NurseNell. A couple of decades ago, there was a KKK march in my central Connecticut bluecollar town, and it met with MANY angry protesters. They didn't come back.

Not long after that, the Republican mayor of Wallingford (the next town over) decided to fight his municipal union over making MLK Day a paid holiday. He was penny-wise and pound-foolish: White supremacists of every stripe started flocking there for talks and rallies, and Wallingford got an undeserved reputation as a racist town.

After Wallingford decided to recognize MLK Day, the furor simmered down.

There was a rumor that a white-supremacist contingent wanted to participate in the annual Celtic music festival--given that it's such a "white" event--but that they were turned away. More than a few people of color attended the years I did.

[Ruby Slippers]

Basically, it is ok to judge Christians but not gays. Interesting.

That's what you got out of this? :|

[treemom]

I just believe that those of us who are Catholic, have always been Catholic, and still are active in the Church probably know more Catholics than a non-Catholic living in an area of few Catholics. And we probably understand Catholic history and theology to a greater degree. You no doubt know more Jews than I do even though I have some Jewish family members and friends. And I know some Jewish history and theology but you know more.

And yes, staunchly conservative Catholics exist. I had to spend a dinner once seated at a table with the publisher of The Wanderer. Don't think that wasn't hard to endure. There is no more conservative Catholic paper in the country than The Wanderer. In ultra liberal Catholic St. Paul, MN is the island of St. Agnes Church and School, an icon of conservative Catholicism. My older son went to high school there. I know conservative Catholics. They remain a small minority in an otherwise liberal American Church.

I was only stating they exist and are common in memphis. That was it, I was not commenting on anything else you inferred.

[mrs]

In the 1950's I often had trouble sleeping at night because I was afraid the KKK would visit us, this was in upstate NewYork too. They did burn a cross on the property of Fulton J. Sheen, well known Catholic priest.

I read a few years ago that CT is the state with the greatest growth in KKK members. Scary!

WOW this has been very educational for me! I had no clue the KKK is/was active that far north.

[dawbs]

*snip*

WOW this has been very educational for me! I had no clue the KKK is/was active that far north.

I'm in MI and I know where the former 'grand wizard' (or whatever he's called), used to live...it's one of those 'public secrets', everyone knows the house.

(although, to be fair, Michigan is kinda an exception--it always was one of the northern/midwest states w/ heavy heavy klan presence, especially around Detroit. Hell, in the 70's, they were still blowing up busses here.

Which isn't a slam against my home state, it's just some of the crappier part of our history.)

[realist51]

I grew up Catholic but no longer practice. Most of the Catholics I have known in my life lean toward Social Justice. That said, though, in the part of the country where I have lived most of my adult life, the ONLY people I have encountered who act like the fundies we snark on here--LARGE families, homeschooling, long skirts, girls raising their siblings--are conservative Catholics. There does seem to be a burgeoning movement. I once took my daughter to a meeting of a Sea Scouts troop that consisted of kids from these uber-Catholic families. All the kids in the troop had 9, 10, and 11 siblings. (My daughter declined to join, because, as she said, "What if I wanted to say a swear word or something?")