Secular vs. Christian College

[chaotic life]

I don't see this posted anywhere, thought y'all might have fun with this one.

The cost of sending a young person to a state university will, in many cases, be a life marked by ambivalence toward spiritual things, regrettable lifestyle choices, or a complete disregard of the principles Christian parents had attempted to pass on to their children.

mbbc.edu/advantage/christian-vs-secular-college/

And one response someone posted in my FB feed:

stufffundieslike.com/2013/09/christian-vs-secular-college-a-response/

For those who have asked me to give a response I will give it now: it’s a load of fear-inducing, fact-eschewing, fundy-glorifying bullshit.

Come back and see me when you’ve done your due diligence with another study about how many graduates of IFB institutions have also left the faith or abandoned the “morals†they have been taught.

[PennySycamore]

I knew a woman years ago that had graduated from Bob Jones and was married to some loon who was a "missionary to children" and forbid her or her daughters to cut their hair lest their short hair be a stumbling block to others. I remember her lamenting that a Bob Jones education hadn't taught her brother to think through their faith. He'd become a Mormon after graduation. Btw, she didn't agree with her husband about cutting women's hair.

[JaChelle Sugar]

Short hair a stumbling block? Butbutbut, isnt' that what LONG hair is? That's why extremists freak out if a woman is out of hijab? It's a natural, innate, hardwired thing into men?

Also, bravo to that response post.

[Minerva]

The fundies (well, fundy-lites) at my secular university are anything but ambivalent towards spiritual things, and they let the world know!

[Revolennon]

Three people on my DH's side of the family went to Bob Jones. They are still Christians but they freely admit that the school is absolutely insane. They joke about it all the time.

My DH was nearly pressured into going there as well but he eventually got out of it and went to a regular university instead. He wouldn't have made it a month without being expelled from Bob Jones and he knew it.

[bbfreethinker]

Hmmm, I went to a Christian college and am now an atheist.

[DarkAnts]

Hmmm, I went to a Christian college and am now an atheist.

I went to a christian college for a year. Now I am against organized religion.

[2xx1xy1JD]

FWIW, my very secular, left-wing university turned me more religious and more conservative.

[dora]

I was quite involved in the Catholic chaplaincy at my public university. If anything it strengthened my faith and confirmed for me that I choose Catholicism for my self, not because of how I was raised (very loose catholic upbringing and public schools.) we have no religious universities here, closest thing would be bible college, no idea what you study there but I don't see how it would get you a job as anything other than some sort of minister.

[bluelady]

I, also, have issues with organized religion and I attended two universities - both Catholic institutions.

However, because they were also public institutions, what that meant for me was really only that the chapels on campus were Catholic and that there may have been christian prayer at certain events (convocation, for example), although I may be wrong on that. There were no rules on dress or academic thought and birth control was readily available at the campus clinic.

There is a Protestant Christian university nearby that got into hot water a few years back for discriminatory practices against homosexuals. I can't quite remember the details, but I believe it had something to do with refusing to employ gay people. The backlash was quite strong and the community called for that school to either change their practices or lose their status (and therefore funding) as a public university.

[FlorenceHamilton]

I went to a state University. However, my son went to a Jesuit University. He was not religious before and he is still not religius at all (we are Jewish). However, I think that the religious component of his education gave him a deeper appreciation for his own roots and a deeper understanding of the ways that religion hs influenced history. He was given the abilty to see the times that religion was a force for tolerance and pusuit of knowledge and the times that religion has been used as a brutal control mechanism.

My Jewish son's Catholic University encouraged crtital thought and respect for many religious beliefs. He has fond memories of his 4 years of college and has retained many good friends.

What bothers me about so many of the Christian schools we dicuss here on FJ is that they discourage critical thought. There is no space for students with a different belief system. They do not encourage the young people to push past their boundaries. I think that one of the most important parts of a college education is to individuate. Christian colleges hold the promise of preventing this to happen.

[August]

Florence, aren't Jesuits a class unto themselves when it comes to critical inquiry?

Short hair a stumbling block? Butbutbut, isnt' that what LONG hair is? That's why extremists freak out if a woman is out of hijab? It's a natural, innate, hardwired thing into men?

Also, bravo to that response post.

Isn't short hair a sign of a lesbofeminist? Or maybe the father's just really turned on by pixie cuts and since the watching eyes of his god are the only thing keeping him from rape, pillage and molestation he's erring on the side of caution?

[FlorenceHamilton]

Florence, aren't Jesuits a class unto themselves when it comes to critical inquiry?

Isn't short hair a sign of a lesbofeminist? Or maybe the father's just really turned on by pixie cuts and since the watching eyes of his god are the only thing keeping him from rape, pillage and molestation he's erring on the side of caution?

Pope Francis is a Jesuit.

[DomWackTroll]

Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, citing a 2008 article by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, reports that 83 percent of college students drink and 41 percent admitted to five or more drinks on at least one occasion within the two weeks preceding the survey.

Three words: Kathie. Lee. Gifford.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, citing a 2008 article by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, reports that 83 percent of college students drink and 41 percent admitted to five or more drinks on at least one occasion within the two weeks preceding the survey.

Three words: Kathie. Lee. Gifford.

Well, that's why I won't be sending my kids to a party school. There are perfectly good universities within commuting distance, so if they want to go out of town, it better be because they got into Harvard or into a unique and useful program that doesn't exist locally.

Hubby and I went to local schools. We were there to work, not party. I remember someone treating me to a drink on my 19th birthday (legal drinking age here). Otherwise, I don't think that I had more than 5 drinks in total during all of my undergrad and law school years. My husband was too busy studying to party, so he wasn't drinking either.

We both attended secular, multicultural universities.

[Mela99]

I considered going to a small, Catholic college in Pennsylvania. It's a decent school education-wise and they offered some really nice scholarships.

Then I went for a visit...

Most of the 101 math/english/gen ed reqs were taught by priests and nuns, not professors. I side eyed that a little bit, but it didn't bother me as much as the dorm arrangements.

Girls and boys on the same floor, but there was locked steel door between them which was locked at 8pm every night. And you could be thrown out of school for having someone of the opposite sex in your room after hours - EVEN RELATIVES. The tour guide told story about twins - a boy and a girl - both got in BIG TROUBLE for daring to hang out together.

I said fuck that noise and picked a state school instead.

[Miggy]

Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, citing a 2008 article by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, reports that 83 percent of college students drink and 41 percent admitted to five or more drinks on at least one occasion within the two weeks preceding the survey.

So? I think I'm missing something here. Are these students underage? Is that why it's a problem?

I'd take a guess and say Australian statistics are probably similar but most Australian uni students are 18 or older so its legal to drink. I'd also take a guess that those in the same age group who are working or at TAFE probably have the same or higher drinking rates. (I don't have any proof of this - just a guess based on observation.) I can't see why students participating in a legal activity is a problem.

[Kellbells]

Hmmmm, I was very religious (Methodist) until I went to a college with deep ties to the Southern Baptist Convention. Seeing the judgement passed and trash talked about others through the guise of religion, seeing the intolerance of anyone who thought/spoke/looked/acted differently pushed me firmly to agnostic.

[halcionne]

Well, that's why I won't be sending my kids to a party school. There are perfectly good universities within commuting distance, so if they want to go out of town, it better be because they got into Harvard or into a unique and useful program that doesn't exist locally.

Hubby and I went to local schools. We were there to work, not party. I remember someone treating me to a drink on my 19th birthday (legal drinking age here). Otherwise, I don't think that I had more than 5 drinks in total during all of my undergrad and law school years. My husband was too busy studying to party, so he wasn't drinking either.

We both attended secular, multicultural universities.

Eh, I allowed, and even encouraged, my daughter to go away to college at a 'party school,' ASU. They offer one of the best programs available in her field of study, IMO. And even though she's hundreds of miles away and I don't know whether she's drinking or not (pretty sure she's not, since she's paying for all of this herself) I raised her right -- hurr hurr -- and I trust her to not get too far out of control. And I'll be there for her if she DOES.

[DomWackTroll]

Well, that's why I won't be sending my kids to a party school. There are perfectly good universities within commuting distance, so if they want to go out of town, it better be because they got into Harvard or into a unique and useful program that doesn't exist locally.

Hubby and I went to local schools. We were there to work, not party. I remember someone treating me to a drink on my 19th birthday (legal drinking age here). Otherwise, I don't think that I had more than 5 drinks in total during all of my undergrad and law school years. My husband was too busy studying to party, so he wasn't drinking either.

We both attended secular, multicultural universities.

My point is that Kathie Lee Gifford went to Oral Roberts University, and yet she drinks like a fish.

[JMarie]

I considered going to a small, Catholic college in Pennsylvania. It's a decent school education-wise and they offered some really nice scholarships.

Then I went for a visit...

Most of the 101 math/english/gen ed reqs were taught by priests and nuns, not professors. I side eyed that a little bit, but it didn't bother me as much as the dorm arrangements.

Girls and boys on the same floor, but there was locked steel door between them which was locked at 8pm every night. And you could be thrown out of school for having someone of the opposite sex in your room after hours - EVEN RELATIVES. The tour guide told story about twins - a boy and a girl - both got in BIG TROUBLE for daring to hang out together.

I said fuck that noise and picked a state school instead.

Are you trying to say that priests and nuns can't be professors? Many Catholic clergy have graduate degrees in addition to their religious studies, making them perfectly qualified to teach.

[Minerva]

Well, that's why I won't be sending my kids to a party school. There are perfectly good universities within commuting distance, so if they want to go out of town, it better be because they got into Harvard or into a unique and useful program that doesn't exist locally.

Hubby and I went to local schools. We were there to work, not party. I remember someone treating me to a drink on my 19th birthday (legal drinking age here). Otherwise, I don't think that I had more than 5 drinks in total during all of my undergrad and law school years. My husband was too busy studying to party, so he wasn't drinking either.

We both attended secular, multicultural universities.

I think students who want to drink will do so wherever they go. I think, quite possibly, the major difference between a party school and a non-party school is how much peace and quiet you get. A couple of my neighbours in 1st year didn't realize they'd signed up to be on a party floor. They weren't happy.

I actually don't know whether my university is a party school or not. I assume I'd have heard of it if it was. On the other hand, 80% of people drinking and 40% drinking heavily sounds pretty much like the 1st years at my school.

[Mela99]

Are you trying to say that priests and nuns can't be professors? Many Catholic clergy have graduate degrees in addition to their religious studies, making them perfectly qualified to teach.

No, I'm simply saying I wasn't sure if I wanted the daily influence of a priest or nun. I wasn't entirely sure what influence a religious person would have on Biology 101.

I have no idea what they were qualified in or not qualified in. I just didn't want to spend my college career feeling like I was in Sunday school again, worrying about what I should or shouldn't say or ask or do. I personally wouldn't have felt comfortable.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I think students who want to drink will do so wherever they go. I think, quite possibly, the major difference between a party school and a non-party school is how much peace and quiet you get. A couple of my neighbours in 1st year didn't realize they'd signed up to be on a party floor. They weren't happy.

I actually don't know whether my university is a party school or not. I assume I'd have heard of it if it was. On the other hand, 80% of people drinking and 40% drinking heavily sounds pretty much like the 1st years at my school.

Obviously, there is an element of personal responsibility and choice.

At the same time - college-aged kids tend to follow the crowd. You don't need to be a hard-core alcoholic to use some bad judgment because you are young and away from home and everyone around you is partying hard.

I went to York. It was an ugly commuter school. Sure, it had its pubs, but the idea of drinking on that campus was downright depressing. The football team was known for multi-year losing streaks.

My husband went to U of T. Every single undergrad conversation he had seemed to revolve around grade point averages and/or admission criteria for med schools. He resented parties, because they cut into study time. His friends were like that as well.

My sister went to Waterloo. Fine, it meant living away from home, but everyone seemed to focus on job placements and technology (even for my sister, who majored in recreation).

My friend went to Western. When I wen to visit her - and she had been a pretty studious nerd - I kept saying, "is this place for real? It's just like all those American college movies!" I know plenty of people who went there who are now fine, upstanding citizens, but it was definitely more of a party atmosphere.

[Megan]

No, I'm simply saying I wasn't sure if I wanted the daily influence of a priest or nun. I wasn't entirely sure what influence a religious person would have on Biology 101.

I have no idea what they were qualified in or not qualified in. I just didn't want to spend my college career feeling like I was in Sunday school again, worrying about what I should or shouldn't say or ask or do. I personally wouldn't have felt comfortable.

Depends on the University... several of the major Catholic universities are signatories to the Land O Lakes statement, in which they basically pledged that their missions, as universities, was to provide quality educations.

I went to a Catholic university and received an amazing education. Some of the most popular professors were clergy, though most of the ones I heard about taught history or the like.

I definitely spent time considering the religious influence in education before I decided to apply to religious schools, and again before I decided to attend one.