Free School Meals.

[Maggie Mae]

I don't like the idea of policing lunchboxes. I just don't. I don't think it's something that a teacher (who probably has no background in nutrition) needs to be concerned with. It is the parent's responsibility (and at a certain age, the student's responsibility) to be prepared for the day, and if that includes making a lunch, it includes making a lunch.

I personally don't like cafeteria food (or any food that I don't prepare for myself, really) but no one likes cafeteria food. I just took a look at the items they are serving in our local schools - chicken fingers and pizza and hot dogs. That's so different from the stuff I'd hear public school kids complain about when I was growing up.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Because it is the role of schools to educate children - it is the role of parents to make decisions about how they and their children apply that education.

There has been a pronounced trend in recent years for government, through public schools and other departments, to enforce an ideal of how children should be raised. As the ideals enforced tend to be those of the middle class of the dominant cultural group (who are the people who tend to write policy and studies), for the most part it doesn't directly affect me or other members of the dominant group - as I mentioned, I use pack a lunch that meets the guidelines anyway, and would wether those guidelines were there or not. The people who it does effect are those who are lacking a voice in policy formation and who are the least capable of asserting and defending their culture,

Every child and every family should have a knowledge of nutrition. I assume that the vast majority of parents want to do the best they can for their children. Not every parent has the funds and/or the time or the skills to pack meat and salad wraps, vegetable fingers and healthy dip, home baked non packaged snacks and at least two servings of fruit.

Children who are already being raised in a family that doesn't fit the middle class ideal are already pushing uphill to achieve in a school system based around and assuming knowledge of that culture and its (often unspoken) norms and values. Telling them and their parents that something as basic as their diet isn't good enough and doesn't fit won't be helpful, especially when the lessons in nutrition often won't be replicated at home.

At my kids' school, kids eat their snack in class, so the classroom teacher sees what they are eating. They encourage heathy snacks such as fruits or veggies, but won't make a child go hungry if they don't have those.

I am finding that it's changing the "food culture" of the class. A few years ago, constant junk was the norm. It was hard to sell my kids on healthy snacks if all of their friends were eating junk, or if the school itself gave out junk. At one point, I had a junior kindergarten teacher worried that I was starving my oldest daughter, because she constantly asked for a type of snack at school that I didn't permit at home. I had them check her lunch bag and note that she would often bring home her lunch uneaten, because she was filling up on the junk snacks instead.

Of course, you are right that preaching and making rules does no good if nutritious food is not available to the family. That's why it needs to be part of a larger effort. Schools need to work with community groups to eliminate "food deserts", where there are no local grocery stores with healthy foods. It might make sense to bring in local produce, for example, and give that out in school. Kids should be taught easy snack and lunch prep, and schools can have parent and child cooking activities. Healthy foods do not have to be fancy, and I think that there's a false message out there that being healthy means spending tons of money on organic produce only and spending hours in the kitchen. Of course, lessons should incorporate local flavors and ethnic cooking customs.

[OkToBeTakei]

Instead of banning packed lunches out of nutritional concerns, why not bring in healthy lunch rules/guidelines? Along with the zillion other rules for school lunches (ie. meatless kosher peanut-free), we also get reminders about the need to pack at least one healthy snack, and to pack litter-less lunches at least once per week. My son's teacher this year insists that the kids bring a fruit or veggie snack.

I honestly have never been informed or told to conform to any rules regarding kosher, allergy or litter-less. Not to start the peanut butter war again :? There is one child in my kid's school with a severe allergy, I only know this because he is the child of a friend's friend. ie I know WHO he is. I initially found out about it from my own child. She told me about X at school who has a nut allergy and how 'We' are all careful but that he is VERY careful. She looked after him in dinner hall when he was a P1 (age 5) A common practice where the older children 'buddy' the younger at lunch. She adored him. The only other time it came up was when on a charity bake she asked me to make sure it was something X could buy as people forget he has to be careful. I'm not sure X buys anything as it is very severe but as peanut butter is not so common here as a lunch choice as per the previous thread, it appears not to be an issue.

I would like to post the 4 week choice for school dinners as JP mentioned above but it would be I'm sure incorrect to C&P the e-mail.

I will do a rough 2 day menu.

Soup every day. Changes daily.

Wholemeal or half/half roll. With Flora (YIKES) My kid is a butter kid :lol:

Sandwiches. Tuna, Ham, Cheese, Turkey, Egg Salad. Daily.

Chicken Curry with Rice. Half Naan bread. Corn (for some bizarre non-Indian reason)

Pasta, broccoli.

Salad bar.

Fresh fruit.

Yogurt. Muller make apparently.

Water is free. As is Milk USED TO BE FREE BEFORE THATCHER THE MILK SNATCHER (personal hate :lol: ) Fairtrade Fresh Orange.

Home baking and the horror of Hot school pudding on alternate days. Today was Apple crumble and Custard :lol:

Repeat above for next day except the hot choices were;

Steak pie mash and neeps.

Veggie was various paninis.

Pudding was Rice pudding and Jam.

The rest of the soup, salad, drinks, home baking, fruit is varied but menued daily.

The average cost is £1.80 per day. All the food is cooked on the premises and is controlled by the 'dinnerladies.' They help the kids choose and help them with costs and budgets as do the older kids with the younger kids. THERE are rules, but it is more of the sort where the dinnerlady will say no...you cannot spend all your money on homebaking you have to choose one from this and one from this. One teacher supervises lunch on a rolling rota and one teacher helper. But mainly it is the realm of the dinnerladies who all children know by name.

Packed lunches are picked up every morning by the older kids assigned again on a rolling basis. Each class has a trolley which is taken to the kitchen. Their packed lunch is picked up in the dinner hall the same time as the other kids eat school dinner. They all eat together. The classes are rotated daily so one class is not always first although P1 is always first.

My child is in the top class ie P7 in school. She is assigned one P1. Her responsibility is to take them to dinner hall and either assist them with choice ie assist the dinner lady or supervise them eating their packed lunch. ALL not eaten food in packed lunch is put back in the chosen box and sent home. She did this last year as a P6 and is a past master at persuasion and bribery now. She loves it and finds the wee kids funny. She says the best persuaders are her male classmates as they are so desperate to get out of dinner hall to play footie they can get their P1's to eat ALL their Lunch. After they have supervised they eat their own lunch, they also get an extra 15 minutes play.

Anyway, sorry for the long story. Just what our system is. It is a state primary one of 6 in my town and they all use the same system.

[canbritam]

There has been a pronounced trend in recent years for government, through public schools and other departments, to enforce an ideal of how children should be raised. As the ideals enforced tend to be those of the middle class of the dominant cultural group (who are the people who tend to write policy and studies), for the most part it doesn't directly affect me or other members of the dominant group - as I mentioned, I use pack a lunch that meets the guidelines anyway, and would wether those guidelines were there or not. The people who it does effect are those who are lacking a voice in policy formation and who are the least capable of asserting and defending their culture,

in a family that doesn't fit the middle class ideal are already pushing uphill to achieve in a school system based around and assuming knowledge of that culture and its (often unspoken) norms and values. Telling them and their parents that something as basic as their diet isn't good enough and doesn't fit won't be helpful, especially when the lessons in nutrition often won't be replicated at home.

[2xx1xy1JD]

There has been a pronounced trend in recent years for government, through public schools and other departments, to enforce an ideal of how children should be raised. As the ideals enforced tend to be those of the middle class of the dominant cultural group (who are the people who tend to write policy and studies), for the most part it doesn't directly affect me or other members of the dominant group - as I mentioned, I use pack a lunch that meets the guidelines anyway, and would wether those guidelines were there or not. The people who it does effect are those who are lacking a voice in policy formation and who are the least capable of asserting and defending their culture,

in a family that doesn't fit the middle class ideal are already pushing uphill to achieve in a school system based around and assuming knowledge of that culture and its (often unspoken) norms and values. Telling them and their parents that something as basic as their diet isn't good enough and doesn't fit won't be helpful, especially when the lessons in nutrition often won't be replicated at home.

Here's the thing though - some times those families have a way to speak up and no matter how much you encourage them they refuse. In Ontario, every school in the public and Catholic systems are required by the Miniatry of Education to have parent run school councils which all parents can come and give feedback. I'm the chairperson of my boys school council for the third year in a row (because it's a thankless job no one else wants :p ). Anyway, I tried to get the parents of some of the Arab, Pakistani and Indian kids to come and participate and have a voice (we're currently doing dress code and code of conduct writing) an none of them will come. Two of them told me that it's because in their countries (Egypt and Pakistan) you don't question the teachers. You don't question school policy. You don't put in your two cents and you do what the school tells you, essentially.

So my challenge is, how do we get the people from this line of thinking to change the way they view the schools, administration and policy? How do we getthem to understand that they DO get a say in Canada? Because I've been trying for three years and haven't figured it out yet. The only ones that show up are the cultural majority.

[Arete]

I'm late but I will put in my 2 cents. Every kid with a need should be entitled to a hot, healthy, nutritious lunch at the public's expense while in school. I am not down with mandating everyone should get the lunch, or else have to write a dissertation as to why they should be allowed to bring lunch from home. That is way to much nanny statism than I am comfortable with allowing. Kids are going to figure out that some have more money than others no matter how alike their uniforms or their lunches (and I am actually pro uniform). Keep some general guidelines about what is packed from home to forbid sodas and twinkies. Don't allow sodas or twinkies to be sold or put into school lunches. In other words, choose the middle ground with some favoritism toward nutrition. Don't go looking for or creating resentments by forcibly turning public school cafeterias vegetarian, or insulting parents who are trying to do their best.

Educate. Educate, educate, educate. If you educate kids on nutrition, and encourage, but NOT mandate certain things in the school cafeteria, you will create changes in the outside culture, and not turn teachers into lunchbag wardens. The same way kids whine for chocolate they will whine for a piece of fruit if a critical mass of their peers are doing it and if it is encouraged.

[OkToBeTakei]

I'm late but I will put in my 2 cents. Every kid with a need should be entitled to a hot, healthy, nutritious lunch at the public's expense while in school. I am not down with mandating everyone should get the lunch, or else have to write a dissertation as to why they should be allowed to bring lunch from home. That is way to much nanny statism than I am comfortable with allowing. Kids are going to figure out that some have more money than others no matter how alike their uniforms or their lunches (and I am actually pro uniform). Keep some general guidelines about what is packed from home to forbid sodas and twinkies. Don't allow sodas or twinkies to be sold or put into school lunches. In other words, choose the middle ground with some favoritism toward nutrition. Don't go looking for or creating resentments by forcibly turning public school cafeterias vegetarian, or insulting parents who are trying to do their best.

Educate. Educate, educate, educate. If you educate kids on nutrition, and encourage, but NOT mandate certain things in the school cafeteria, you will create changes in the outside culture, and not turn teachers into lunchbag wardens. The same way kids whine for chocolate they will whine for a piece of fruit if a critical mass of their peers are doing it and if it is encouraged.

Uniform for me is one of the most important things.

[AnnieC 305]

Here's a thought that no one is bringing up that was a major issue in the district where I used to teach. Lunch programs need to be managed by someone. That means that someone gets to stay on site and figure out who is getting free lunch today and who is paying what and keep track of the records from the card or the finger reader or who has paid their monthly bill and send all the records back to the State and work with the district Dietary department to make sure they're not ordering too much or too little which will change every day as kids transfer in and out or do or do not show up and so on. (Yes, they have to track it that closely. God forbid you tell the lunch staff that you have 20 kids on meal plan today and you only have 19 so they have a meal left over. Waste! Waste!)

And then you'll need lunch room monitors to make sure that Suzy, who brought a bag lunch doesn't turn around and swap with Johnny, who's lunch was bought by the taxpayers and who would be outright annoyed at this bit of fraud going on. (I kid you not)

Putting everyone on the same lunch plan saved us aprox $750,000 US/year over the district, just in salary cost alone.

[duplessis3]

My kids went (one still does) to a Montessori School where par of the.program is f or kids to make their own lunches. My kids always have. Some parents never get the picture (they also want uniforms which is not Montessori) btw it is a public Montessori School in a challenging neighborhood. For awhile the teachers were p o living lunch and that was a nightmare for the teacher. I sent a fruit rollup that got confiscated because it ha one gram more of sugar than was allowed (7 grams for the. record)

[Buzzard]

I have no kids, so take what I say for what its worth. Every sunday (Yes, I do it weekly because I fucking HATE making lunches) I hit up costco and buy ingredients. I then make fruit portions, sandwiches, and salads for myself and my SO for the week. It takes (not including shopping) 2+ hours. Add a kid to the mix and fuck that, it would be lunchables all the way.

I work a demanding job and so does my SO. I'm lucky (or unlucky) enough that eating out for lunch isnt an option at my job due to the requirements of my job and where I am. The more stuff I have to make, the less healthy it becomes.

Children learn nutrition from their families and their tastes, unless there is a sensory issue, is dependant upon what they are exposed to. Its so easy to order a pizza and stick it in a zip lock every day for a week. I could order a case of sodium laden gelatenous lunchables from amazon and stick one of those in a bag as well. I freely admit to having a hoard of "simply asian" emergency lunches in my desk.

A free lunch program, if done correctly, eliminates the "easy" option for so many working people. No more chicken nuggets, no more crap. Of course, the school could cheap out and order grade Q meat so its all in theory. I'd LOVE it if my office offered lunch :-)

[keen23]

My kids go to a public school that qualifies for Title 1 funds (i.e. it's not an economically stable neighborhood) and 80-90% of the kids at the school are on the free lunch program. Because "EVERYONE" is on free lunch, the kids who don't buy are teased. Sack lunch becomes "sad lunch." My oldest who doesn't eat anything gives into peer pressure and buys lunch every single day, at a cost of $2.20 per day to me. The thing is, she'll actually eat school lunch, and as a result as opened up to trying new things at home. My younger two don't care so much what other people think of their "sad lunch" and happily pack lunch daily. Today it was cheese and crackers (actual Colby-Jack cheese that I cut from the block, not cheeze), clementines, a few quick pickled carrots that I made, and some beef jerky. Plus a Capri Sun, frozen to keep everything else cold. Here's the kicker though- the school doesn't let the kids who bring home lunch throw anything away. That way the parents have to monitor what leaves with the kids and what comes home with them.

I take my own lunch to work almost every day. But I just pack some leftovers from dinner, because I have access to a microwave and my kids do not.

[Conuly]

I have no kids, so take what I say for what its worth. Every sunday (Yes, I do it weekly because I fucking HATE making lunches) I hit up costco and buy ingredients. I then make fruit portions, sandwiches, and salads for myself and my SO for the week. It takes (not including shopping) 2+ hours. Add a kid to the mix and fuck that, it would be lunchables all the way.

With a kid, you make them do some of the work on an assembly line. The kid picks out 5 fruits and juices for the week, and baggies up 5 days worth of raisins, you make the sandwiches, your partner cuts them and shoves them in baggies. Then you make the salad for yourself and your partner, because it really is wishful thinking to imagine that your kid will eat salad at school, five days old.

[Little Miss Alien]

Yeah, it's up to the end of KS1 aka Y2. My son will just miss out.

Part of the reason I pay for him to have a hot lunch 5 days a week is because of the ever-growing list of banned foods at the school. Even healthy options like houmus are banned now because there is one pupil who is allergic to sesame. If several children each have a specific allergy then those foods all get banned. I'm allergic to avocado so that would be gone. There are children with allergies to eggs, dairy, citrus etc. At the moment those children have to eat on their own, in their classroom, but how practical would that be if kitchens had to cater for them too? Where would they find space to prepare such foods away from allergens?

[hapamama]

On the free/paying issue: my older son's school has a cashless system for the kids which involves a dinky little gadget that recognises their fingerprint (and yes, they give an alternative for the days they've cut themselves). Each child has their own account that the parent can pay into online (or by sending a cheque to school, I believe) or that can be topped up in school with cash. Kids on free school meals get credited with a set amount, supposedly enough to buy a decent meal each day.

The K-8 district some of my kids attend use a pin pad... each student is assigned a pin number, even if that student never buys a lunch.

The high school district has a system where you either scan the barcode on your ID or use your pin number.

Schools that participate in the National School Lunch Program are supposed to have a payment system that doesn't identify students receiving free/reduced price lunches... no punch cards, tickets or separate lines allowed.

[Conuly]

Where would they find space to prepare such foods away from allergens?

In the US, most schools don't have kitchens. The food is prepared off-site, and heated up at the school. One company will serve many schools, so it is entirely possible for that one company, using the economies of scale, to dedicate a few kitchens to preparing allergen-specific foods.