Fundies and "the simple life"

[YPestis]

Ok, I know there's a trend to go green, to live closer to the land and all that, but I've noticed fundies have also gotten into that. Do people think that's just part of a general reaction to our consumerist lifestyle? Or is this movement within fundie-dom motivated by something uniquely fundie?

I look at fundies like Anna T and Whiner Lady, both of whom want to more towards a "simpler" lifestyle but they often speak of doing so because "those times" seem to fit better with their own values. What I mean is, how many fundies are doing the simple life because of love for farming and living on the land, and how much for the love of that time period? Fundies like to talk about how great life on the farm was, because children were more wholesome, parents didn't divorce and everyone were Christians. At least that's the fantasy. I wonder how much of their love for replicating that lifestyle through animal raising, organic farming is due to this fantasy? That somehow if they replicate this lifestyle, that they would also replicate those moral values? I don't know.

I'm sure many people, fundies included, merely want to feel closer to the land when they cut back on their modern, consumerist lifestyle. However, there seems a pattern of seeking alternative routes to escape modern values by leaving the modern lifestyle. Then again, left leaning hippies have been doing this for decades as a means of escaping modern life too. So maybe people just want to seek alternative lifestyles to differentiate themselves from "the world" and the actual lifestyle is secondary to the fact that it's different from how everyone else lives.

[lizziesmom]

Fundies tend to be isolationists. Before World War I the agrarian communities were pretty isolated. Kids had fewer choices and limited exposure. IMO that is what these bloggers are pining for - not the dawn to dusk 16 hour 7 day a week work involved.

[louisa05]

I know a few IRL. I think it is a fear of the pressures of life. They think that there was a magic time when there weren't temptations and troubles and broken relationships and that by retreating to the country and finding ways to drop out of 21st C life, they can recreate that. One of my friends is raising seven children and homeschooling, and not allowing cable, internet, cell phones or any other trappings of modern technology. She thinks it will keep her kids healthy and happy for all time. I worry for them, because it won't work and they will in so many ways be left behind when it comes to finding their way in the world.

[lizziesmom]

My great aunt was one of 10 kids born on a farm who became a self made millionaire in the 60s, worked her entire life and was a wonderful role model for family and friends alike told me something when I was struggling to fit in in high school that served me well my entire life. "The strongest steel is forged by the hottest fire." I don't see how raising kids in bubble wrap prepares them for dealing with adversity. Life is full of adversity and it's what happens after you fall that makes or breaks your character I've found.

[salex]

I think they view it as part of the Dominionist goal, decentralizing government and moving toward state rights and finally county rights and everyman king of his own castle. Toss in an underlying belief that the end of the world as we know it is right around the corner -- my fundie inlaw was literally the only person I knew who stocked up for y2K--- and you get the whole prepper in the middle of no where trend going. Now, this same inlaw set up his children on land in the country, near his childhood home because he feared for their lives if they lived "in town" when the proverbial shit hits the fan.... but the town he referred to had a population of, 12000 people.

the people i've talked to who are most convinced that the end of the world as we know seem also to long for an upheaval where their true worth will finally be seen and they WILL RULE AS KINGS.... or some such.

I think a lot of them go without mod cons because they are sure after the big event, they won't have them and they will be ahead in the game since they don't rely on them.

A subset of them are the gun hoarders who believe two well armed people would fend off starving hoards. My thought is, generally, "your roof is flammable" and once you start shooting at people, they may just burn and pillage regardless of if they wanted your food or not.

Toss in the mid or post tribulation rapture people who want to be off the grid to avoid the mark of the beast (and who apparently think that an evil global government would not have access to heat detectors to scan anyplace they were looking) and you have a nice little crunchy salad.

http://americanvision.org/countyrights/ is an old site that seems to promote these ideas

Then there is Kansas' new appellate judge, who was selected and appointed in a "new" way (ie, old committee for selecting judges replaced by governor picking and senate rubberstamping)

Caleb Stegall.. smart, verbose, and I think very dangerous (anti abortion and anti birth control access anti modernism, anti public school, and in a position that he can be in for 20 years, if the Kochs don't run him for senate.... )

ANd promoting CHristian Enclaves and small self sufficent communites living on nothing from more than 50 miles away....

oldarchive.godspy.com/reviews/Reconnecting-with-Reality-Interview-with-Caleb-Stegall-by-David-Jones.cfm.html

You once wrote that Christians who establish "ghettos" and fight rearguard actions are doomed to fail, but that instead they should create, as you say, "pockets of resistance" or "enclaves" where a new Christian humanism can flourish. What's the difference between a "ghetto" and an "enclave"?

When I've used the term Christian ghetto it's been in the context of Christians trying to find a satisfactory response to political and cultural liberalism. The responses have been either Christians assimilating with the dominant order or Christians acquiescing to being shunted aside into a kind of nature preserve for rubes and hold-outs—a ghetto; a facsimile habitat mimicking liberal society but with a Christian spin.

I have been charged with wanting to ‘turn back the clock…

Often these responses happen at the same time in a Christian community caught in this dilemma; it's happened most obviously to evangelicals. Its leaders seek access to and are granted nominal positions of "influence" in secular society in exchange for keeping the rowdies on the reservation. The problem with this is that it cuts out the church's heart and replaces it with what sociologist Christian Smith has dubbed "therapeutic deism". Christianity becomes just another lifestyle choice complete with its own marketing departments, commercial backers, support "systems," and political interest groups. In this sense, late modern liberalism ghettoizes all identity—you really are what you eat, what you wear, what you consume.

When I talk about new enclaves of civility and culture, borrowing from thinkers like Alasdair McIntyre and T. S. Eliot, I think the point is that communities of tradition and practice need to be rebuilt along different non-liberal lines in a way that allows a real culture to flourish again. The church can never accept life on a reservation, but neither should it position itself to run what is already a decultured and post-Christian deformity—which is largely what late liberalism has become.

[Ellimenopy]

I think fundies are less immune to the trends of modern life than they imagine themselves to be. There's a trend of "getting back to nature" in fundidom because the same trend is present in all of Amercian culture at the moment. Fundies aren't different because they say they're different. They're still human, and it's very human to attach to these kind of whims and make justifications for them.

We *all* are in this period of romanticizing the pastoral past, probably because modern life feels too overwhelming, but it's a mistake to think that those times were "better." There was lots of hard-work, and lots of malnutrition, and surviving on the same beans and rice for weeks at a time in winter. People didn't have time to be all up in each other's business enforcing no-hug rules. And though I love a good jam, and I appreciate the art of butchering, in a very real way organic carrot salads with apple-pork sausages makes a mockery of the real hardship of the past. In short, I think fundies would balk when faced with the banality and even depravity of the past the same as most liberal tree-hugging neo-hippies would (and I include myself in that last category lest you think I'm being insulting.) We all fall prey to the zeitgeist of the age, fundie or no fundie.

Edit: wordz

[SisterLilBunny]

I'm the person who tries to grow as much as we can, make as much as we can food wise, save as much as we can and recycle/upcycle everything else. Remind me how this is simpler? Yes, portioning out bread into baggies for future baking in the bread maker isn't a horrible task but it does take a good hour for a month's supply. If I make it from scratch, it's a good four hour block for a week's worth. Yes, I can get away with washing the dishes up as it rises but oy, being stuck at home that long is a pain with our schedule.

Same with my freezer meal planning that happens every other Sunday. There's the cutting up, browning, et al of the meats and veggies to go in the bag. It is a good afternoon's worth of work to save us time during the week. And of course the soup making takes a bit. You make the stock then you soak the beans then you finally make the soup.

Then there's the garden. That's a decent hour at least of work to make sure we have things that are edible.

And of course there's the whole time vs money thing but seriously, if we're talking simple? Yeah, it's NOT so simple. I've got it down to not a pain in the arse and finally money saving but still, it's NOT simple. We're not even tossing in the cleaning factor of things. And THAT I still have down to not a pain in the arse and money saving too! ;) We do it only because of the last factor of money saving and you bet your hind end that I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't have a system down too.

Eff that romantic stuff, seriously. It's hard work and they just want the LOOK AT ME!!!!! kudos for it. I used to be a Titus 2 wannabe and seriously, the more you suffer the awesomer you are. :pink-shock: I'm still effing proud of what we do but damn, I don't brag unless it's me sticking up for the other side now. ;)

[gardenvarietycitizen]

A lot of people seem to forget that humans are social animals. Our natural behavior is to live in groups - groups may compete against each other, but no man is an island, we make at least small tribes. We divide our labor. Traditionally when people live out in the middle of nowhere, East BFE, they do it in small villages.

It seems to me that a lot of the "gun nut" and "zombie apocalypse is gonna happen any day now, I better be able to fend for myself when society falls" fans (and yes, they range across the political spectrum) spend so much time preparing for this mythical time when society will be gone and they'll be fending off the hordes with their gun (yes, under the flammable roof! :lol:) that they neglect to prepare for living in the society we actually have.

This isn't to completely rip on survival skills or back to the land living or hobbies, it's just the utter romanticism of so much of the "post-apocalyptic sceanario" versions in particular that strikes me as a bit silly.

Particularly in 2013, "normal" life is such that no one person can be a master of everything and completely DIY. Heck, no single occupation even really has a single individual as master of the entire thing anymore. There's just too much knowledge, so we specialize. Perhaps some of the romanticism is a reaction to that.

[TrueRebel1]

I think for many fundies, the reason for a "simple" life is as you mentioned: They wish to return to a more wholesome lifestyle, which in their minds, is back in the good old days. They also wish to not associate with the modern "worldly" culture, the alternative of which is to live an old-fashioned lifestyle.

I do know a few fundies who are into natural, green living. But because buying organic food, upgrading to "green" options, etc can be very expensive, this isn't very popular as most fundies are poor and/or cheapskates.

If a fundie family professes being into a simple life, 9 times out of 10 it's for convenience. "Simple" means oatmeal is the only option for breakfast. "Simple" means you only have to buy your kids a couple toys. "Simple" means you don't have to run to ballet and soccer practice. "Simple" means you never buy new furniture. "Simple" = lazy. It does not equal a true passion for natural, green, or old-fashioned living.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Part of it is a reaction against consumerism and outside influences. If you live a "simple life", you don't care about advertising or brands or watch TV or have a need to go away from home to earn a living.

That said, I also notice that it's not a universal trend among all strains of fundies. Anna T, for example, is pretty unusual in her community and looks to Christian sites for inspiration. I know a handful of Jewish hippies, but the hardcore Jewish fundies aren't remotely into living off the land. I don't really see it among other "ethnic" fundie groups either. In some cases, these groups remember that the good ole days weren't so good and have no desire to be peasants. It's also hard to be part of a really communal religion if you are living in an isolated farm.

[tropaka]

Argghhh, my post disaappeared....a desire to return to a simple (imaginary) past coupled with an unhealthy fear of government/education seems to be what makes a lot the Christian fundies choose "simple" living and homeschooling. There are also the martyred DIYers who like to brag on netz about themselves ("look! We canned 50 jars of X before 8 am this morning. The Lord Does Provide!).

[AnywhereButHere]

I know a few IRL. I think it is a fear of the pressures of life. They think that there was a magic time when there weren't temptations and troubles and broken relationships and that by retreating to the country and finding ways to drop out of 21st C life, they can recreate that. One of my friends is raising seven children and homeschooling, and not allowing cable, internet, cell phones or any other trappings of modern technology. She thinks it will keep her kids healthy and happy for all time. I worry for them, because it won't work and they will in so many ways be left behind when it comes to finding their way in the world.

It's like they're trying to live in a religious version of the movie "The Village" (which I actually liked - I know many thought it was stupid so don't throw tomatoes at me :) ) They try so hard to keep everything "bad" away, but it winds up finding them anyway, because, you know, that's just life. Bad things happen. This return to a "simpler way of life" is a big security blanket for them. They try to pull it over their heads and keep the big, bad world away.