Sarah used the term "love offering"

[nokidsmom]

I have been wondering the same thing. If I were someone selling a cutting-edge exercise routine, let's say, that preached that going to a gym/having a membership was a total waste of time, then it would probably be a BAD IDEA to say my lines and hawk my wares inside a gym. Sure, that's where the hardcore fitness crowd hangs out, but wouldn't the manager owners be pretty upset with me? (fyi-- I have nothing against gyms; it's an example I came up with)

So how can a minister allow the Maxwells to come into their places of worship and work, and then preach to the faithful that what they are doing is wrong? Churches rely on parishioners for support, so why on earth would they invite a group whose message denounces what they are doing as an organization? Do they just not look into the Maxwell message before they open the doors?I do not get it.

I suspect that is what happens. They don't throughly check it out, maybe just peruse their site a little bit, get taken in by all the nice pictures and Bible quotes, any questions are probably directed to the Maxwells themselves, and that's it. But it probably doesn't occur to them that this seeming godly family is actually against them as an organization until the conference itself. Too late then. Or, it's just to rent the space for $$$.

I hate to say it but in my experience, churches are one of the best settings for ripoffs, whether perpetuating them or getting fleeced themselves.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I wonder what feedback the sponsoring churches get from conference participants afterwards, especially participants who are congregation members who can give feedback to other members and church leaders as opposed to non members who show up one time to the conference and never seen again. Plus it might be a bit disconcerting for these churches to host them and then find as the conference progresses how "anti church" they are and how much they are hawking their wares. Wonder if any of them feel a bit duped afterward?

What really makes me wonder is how many of those churches or other regional gatherings would advertise the Maxwell conference as a "homeschooling conference." Some churches would advertise it that way (you can find old flyers on the internet), and some regional homeschooling conference would also invite them as speakers.

But of course homeschooling is only one tiny bit of their message, which is really all about hardcore fundie religion and the supposed religious basis for extreme sheltering of children. They don't actually talk about the nuts and bolts of homeschooling. The closest they get is helping Mom schedule it (and reassuring Mom that using textbooks and setting the kids to pretty much self-learn from those textbooks) is a valid choice.

If I went to a homeschooling conference and it turned out to be the Maxwells, I'd feel pretty ripped off, personally.

[Sweetpea1]

I wonder how many churches ask them back. That would very telling.

[Jana814]

I wonder how many churches ask them back. That would very telling.

I am wondering the same thing. I wonder if some of the places where they do a conference really know what their message is.

[purpleeee]

I wonder how many churches ask them back. That would very telling.

Well, conference itineraries since 2003 are listed on their site (you can put titus2.com/past-conferences.html into webarchive.org if you don't want to click).

So.... :geek: ...out of 238 total conferences 2003-2012, 174 (73%) were in towns that appear on the list only once. I didn't bother checking the 25 repeated towns to see if they were also visiting the same churches (you'd have to do separate clicks for that) but some of them are large places like Denver or Kansas City.

They have only done five gigs in their home town and those I did check - three music concerts (Calvary Baptist, First Baptist plus one not named) and two conferences at Open Door Church, in 2003 and 2004.

Anyway, yes, I'd say their repeat rate is quite low.

[MamaJunebug]

Well, conference itineraries since 2003 are listed on their site (you can put titus2.com/past-conferences.html into webarchive.org if you don't want to click).

So.... :geek: ...out of 238 total conferences 2003-2012, 174 (73%) were in towns that appear on the list only once. I didn't bother checking the 25 repeated towns to see if they were also visiting the same churches (you'd have to do separate clicks for that) but some of them are large places like Denver or Kansas City.

They have only done five gigs in their home town and those I did check - three music concerts (Calvary Baptist, First Baptist plus one not named) and two conferences at Open Door Church, in 2003 and 2004.

Anyway, yes, I'd say their repeat rate is quite low.

W-ow --- you went above and beyond the call to do all that! :wink-kitty: It's really telling, to me, that the church website has nothing about the conference. Who's sponsoring them, anyway?

[WonderingInWA]

Churches have a lot of expenses for upkeeping their building so often will rent out their spaces for programs/conferences they aren't necessarily sponsoring. When my kids were little, our preschool took place in a church, but they were unaffiliated and part of the tuition the preschool received was given directly to the church so it was a "good deal" for both the church and the school.

As far as the Maxwell conferences, there may be a 3rd party involved (like a homeschool organization) that finds the space for them to "perform" and churches are always going to be a cheaper option over, say, a conference center.

[SPHASH]

Churches have a lot of expenses for upkeeping their building so often will rent out their spaces for programs/conferences they aren't necessarily sponsoring. When my kids were little, our preschool took place in a church, but they were unaffiliated and part of the tuition the preschool received was given directly to the church so it was a "good deal" for both the church and the school.

As far as the Maxwell conferences, there may be a 3rd party involved (like a homeschool organization) that finds the space for them to "perform" and churches are always going to be a cheaper option over, say, a conference center.

My home church (no longer attending there as I have moved out of state, still trying to find a church here in ND) used to rent the Sunday School classrooms to the school district for their GED and ESL classes.

[Mela99]

This might be the lawyer in me, but I wonder how they report "love offerings".. you have to report any accession to wealth.

[socalrules]

This might be the lawyer in me, but I wonder how they report "love offerings".. you have to report any accession to wealth.

I don't think love offerings are reported. Why would you report money sent by God, the highest authority?

My theory has always been that people who get money in cash, whether they be love offerings or for work, likely report little if any of it to the IRS.

[WonderingInWA]

Yep, I think that's true. They report their business expenses, but not their cash gifts. And of course, the love offering givers don't either since there is probably no receipt of the transaction to a non-profit or what have you.

[WonderingInWA]

Is Stevie's "ministry" registered as a non-profit? I'm sure they have to report their book sales, but that's got to be under a different business name, right? I'd love to see his books, and I'm not even an accountant.

[WonderingInWA]

And that WOULD be a useful class to charge their sheep -- one in tax evasion! Or, to make it look pretty, how to handle accounting for a homeowned business. I'd love to know what he would say when asked directly about how they account for "love offerings".

[Coconut Flan]

When an offering such as a love offering is taken up at or by the church, it's supposed to be counted and a 1099 done by the church. I'm sure many of the churches "forget" that step.

[Justme]

Is Stevie's "ministry" registered as a non-profit? I'm sure they have to report their book sales, but that's got to be under a different business name, right? I'd love to see his books, and I'm not even an accountant.

No, Stevie has said it is not "not for profit" 'cause they didn't want to do the paperwork. (a/k/a (my words), they know it wouldn't qualify.) :D

[Savoring Samsara]

My home church (no longer attending there as I have moved out of state, still trying to find a church here in ND) used to rent the Sunday School classrooms to the school district for their GED and ESL classes.

My church used to rent its Sunday School classrooms to a charter school during the week, so yeah, that's pretty common. However, in the end, the hassles of sharing that space were not worth the money derived from the rental. I wonder if something similar is behind the Maxwells not repeating at most churches.

[nelliebelle1197]

No, Stevie has said it is not "not for profit" 'cause they didn't want to do the paperwork. (a/k/a (my words), they know it wouldn't qualify.) :D

They would have qualified. Plenty of these type of "ministries" do. In fact, it would have been beneficial. I think he is sincere in his craziness about that.

[salex]

Is Stevie's "ministry" registered as a non-profit? I'm sure they have to report their book sales, but that's got to be under a different business name, right? I'd love to see his books, and I'm not even an accountant.

No, he points out that they are not a not for profit on their site.

And the "love offerings" -- I think we touched on that a bit with the Baby Tate donation scam thing. GIfts (which is what a love offering is) are not taxes until they reach a specific amount from each lover gifter per year. (10K comes to mind) So, unless someone loves the maxwells an awful lot, these kinds of "gifts" may not be taxable.

[Coconut Flan]

"Love offerings" made directly to an individual or family are different than passing the basket in a church. The IRS has specific instructions that anyone that gets more than $600 a year from the church is to be issued a 1099. From what I've read and been told by the church treasurer that includes passing the plate or basket for a speaker. It's to be counted and a 1099 issued before they give them the money. The church can be fined for failure to do so.

The question would then become do the Maxwells usually get more than $600 in offerings from their speaking or music sessions? I kind of doubt it at least in the past year or so. They don't seem to be drawing large crowds of people with extra cash.