Bad news: You can't be a Christian and a feminist

[snuggles911]

Sunshine Mary has a new post out today questioning modern theologians who believe Jesus was a feminist. sunshinemaryandthedragon.wordpress.com.

Temperance was a movement, much like feminism, that was begun by a small group of mentally-unstable women who desired to control men’s behavior. Carrie Nation, anyone?

And most of us now understand that women’s suffrage has been a negative thing because women tend to vote with either their emotions or their sexual tingles.

Patriarchy benefited women, not men, says Sunshine.

Patriarchal social structure protected women. We were lucky that men ever cared for women like that; if and when the last vestiges of it are ever truly wiped out, women will realize how very much we depend upon men for physical sustenance and spiritual and emotional fulfillment.

We need to wipe feminism from the modern church, says Sunshine

If women just come right out and announce their feminism, there is a chance – maybe a small one, but a chance – that we will at least see people begin to reject that and wake up to how feministic the entire Church has become. If Christian men will now stop white knighting for feminism, perhaps we will have a chance of washing this out of the Church.

Because feminists are sluts

One of the favorite topics among feminists is sexuality – the sluttier, the better. Don’t believe me? Just read through the list of course offerings from any typical college Women’s Studies Department. Does unchained sexuality give women dignity?

And they want equal rights without equal responsibilities:

Does feminism give women rights? Yes, that’s evident, but what about responsibilities? Feminists oppose women having the responsibility to:

* pay for their own birth control and abortions

* compete in the workplace without affirmative action

* perform as well as men in the military.

That doesn’t sound like equal responsibilities to me.

She asks her readers to weigh in and the comments are quite interesting. Most conclude that Jesus wasn't a feminist and feminists are ruining the church.

[lizziesmom]

Women vote with their "sexual tingles"? :lol: She must have missed the poll that showed why many Alaskan men voted for Sarah Palin. Let's just say they didn't use the head on their shoulders to make their choice.

Actually, if it came down to being a so called Christian like this witch or a feminist, there would be no contest. Her idea of Christianity sounds like pure hell to me.

[singsingsing]

Wow! Now that's what I call delusion.

[danvillebelle]

Oh, yeah? Watch me. :hand:

I am so sick of these namby-pampy simpering idiots who say that no woman can have a life and passions outside the home because they don't have the discipline or the balls to do it themselves. Lady Lydia and Sunshine Idiot, I'm talking to you.

It is no accident that one of the many dozens of reasons Orthodoxy drew me in was because of the high status of women in the theology and tradition. For us, the most important human being that ever lived was a woman (Mary). There are several women who are given the title "Equal to the Apostles" because they took the gospel to other countries, sometimes converting the entire population. Not by browbeating or shaming, but by living the Gospel...giving away all their money to the poor, feeding people, caring for children and the elderly. Something these twits seem to be incapable of doing. They just sit home, clean their houses, feed their kids (barely, sometimes), shred fabric and hang it from every available surface, and have tea parties and call that living for Christ. :cray-cray:

ETA: Depending on men for physical sustenance and spiritual and emotional fulfillment? I thought we were supposed to depend on GOD for those things? Hypocrites.

[Anny Nym]

Patriarchal social structure protected women. We were lucky that men ever cared for women like that; if and when the last vestiges of it are ever truly wiped out, women will realize how very much we depend upon men for physical sustenance and spiritual and emotional fulfillment.

Along with the fact that this is ABSOLUTELY HISTORICALLY INACCURATE (but preaching to the choir here, ik...), the second sentence just shows us how bitter and basically eaten away with self-hate Sunshine Mary is.

I just realized again, how lucky I am for not being enforced to lead her kind of life. It would be such a waste of my time here on this planet .

[curlytoes79]

Women vote with their "sexual tingles"? :lol: She must have missed the poll that showed why many Alaskan men voted for Sarah Palin. Let's just say they didn't use the head on their shoulders to make their choice.

I had to stop reading at "sexual tingles" because I was laughing so much. :lol: :lol:

I remember reading some anti-suffragette pamphlet from the late 1800s that said if women got the vote, they'd vote for whoever had the nicest mustache. Actually, maybe that's how Sarah Palin got elected governor....

[AnywhereButHere]

Again with the sex with this one! I think she needs to have more of it, since she seems to be a little clueless as to what it doeas and does not influence in normal people's lives... (And not for nothing, I've never looked at a politician and gotten any sort of sexual tingle. I don't want to know who she's looking at when she says that!)

Does feminism give women rights? Yes, that’s evident, but what about responsibilities? Feminists oppose women having the responsibility to:

* pay for their own birth control and abortions - I do actually pay for my own birth control. It's through a health insurance program offered by my company that I pay into. Or I guess that is the evil "socialised healthcare" so it doesn't count?*

compete in the workplace without affirmative action - If men, and women like Mary, would get over themselves, we wouldn't need any sort of affirmative action, but since they have their heads up their asses, I'm glad it's around. And hey, even with it, women still make less than men in comparable jobs.*

perform as well as men in the military. - What woman who joins the military thinks she should preform at a lower level? I would think most women in the military double up their efforts just to prove they're good enough because of idiots wi these views. No one joins the military for an easy life, men or women.

Her version of a Patriarchal Societal Structure doesn't protect women. It smothers and relegates them to a life of "second class citizens"

How insecure in yourself and frightened of life do you have to be to embrace the life that she wants to lay out for herself?

[singsingsing]

I remember reading some anti-suffragette pamphlet from the late 1800s that said if women got the vote, they'd vote for whoever had the nicest mustache.

Oh man! So THAT'S why I voted for Jack Layton!

[RachelB]

Sunshine Mary does not know as much as she thinks she does, least of all what is in anyone's mind other than her own. Asking genuine questions in the hope of improving her understanding would be a far better use of keystrokes than pontificating about things into which she has no insight.

Signed,

A Feminist, Christian Policy Voter Who Follows Politics in Non-presidential Election Years

[happy atheist]

Patriarchal social structure protected women. We were lucky that men ever cared for women like that; if and when the last vestiges of it are ever truly wiped out, women will realize how very much we depend upon men for physical sustenance and spiritual and emotional fulfillment.

Does she understand that feminists don't want to outlaw men? The way she talks, it's like she thinks feminists want to wipe men off the planet.

[Claddagh]

I had the feeling this would be a rant by "Sunshine" Mary. I sometimes wonder if she ever writes anything outside of hating women.

And most of us now understand that women’s suffrage has been a negative thing because women tend to vote with either their emotions or their sexual tingles.

I couldn't stop laughing at that.

[treehugger]

Man, I have yet to find a politician that makes me tingle :lol: I don't know how I've managed to vote without it.

[burntnorton]

Darn, SSM won't let me in her club.

Also, what is with MRAs and the imaginary distinction between thought and emotion?. Their thoughts are magically devoid of emotional influence whereas women's are hopelessly tainted by it. Because thats how the brain works. Men are equipped with an emotion turn off switch that allows them to operate on pure logic.

[MamaJunebug]

Sunshine Mary has a new post out today questioning modern theologians who believe Jesus was a feminist. sunshinemaryandthedragon.wordpress.com.

?

Yeah, Carrie A. Nation for me, please. Sunshine Mary - who is neither sunshiney nor probably a woman - does not know his history. When Carrie married, she knew that her husband would have final and complete say on how the money he brought home would be spent. He chose to drink it away, leaving his wife and children to nearly starve while at the complete mercy of landlords who would choose whether to permit the woman and her yougn children to remain under roof.

So much for patriarchy looking out for the dear women and children.

Carrie's campaign was to shut down bars and prohibit liquor so that men could not waste their money on drunkkenness rather than spend it responsibly on their families. Perhaps she did not realize that liquor wasn't the root cause of the deplorable conditions in which she and her contemporaries lived. But she was brilliant in attracting attention to her cause! While Prohibition didn't (and couldn't) work, it certainly showed how the system was broken.

I knew nothing of this until I attended a historical society program where a woman gives a first-person speech as Carrie. Carrie - and the woman who researched her and presents this program - are two of my heroes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for being both a feminist and a Christian, well, look, for here I am. But you must first understand how I define "being Christian."

It is not "striving to follow Jesus of Nazareth and to become like Him." That's flat-out impossible.

It is: believing that Jesus' life, etc., assures me that after death, there is life and peace, and this permits me to serve others in His name and to live life joyously while doing so.

Big big big differences, there.

Feminism I define as "the belief that each person deserves to live her/his life as makes her/him happy so far as it harms no one else directly or otherwise."

LIke, "Pursuit of happiness," belief.

It's so logical to be both a Christian and a feminist that I want to :pull-hair: when I hear someone swear that it's impossible to do so. :disgust:

[patsymae]

I know a lot of highly educated, vocal and active nuns who would disagree.

[Jinger Jar]

Sunshine Mary does not know as much as she thinks she does, least of all what is in anyone's mind other than her own. Asking genuine questions in the hope of improving her understanding would be a far better use of keystrokes than pontificating about things into which she has no insight.

Signed,

A Feminist, Christian Policy Voter Who Follows Politics in Non-presidential Election Years

I doubt SSM knows her own mind very well. She (or he) has been so brainwashed by MRAs that she can barely find her ass with both of her hands on a clear day.

[burntnorton]

Exactly, Mama. People ignore the very real and horrific problems that the WTU was trying to adress in favor of cariacturing them as hysterical harpies. They may have chosen the wrong target for solving the problems caused by womens legal disadvantages in the long term, but its easy to understand why they pursued alcohol bans. A much more attainable target, as it turned out.

[Ruby Slippers]

Somebody should have told Deborah in The Book of Judges that.

[Dysfundamental]

Carrie Nation was a devout Evangelical Christian (Disciples of Christ), so I don't even get the parallel. Most temperance advocates were Christians (hence the "C" in the WCTU), so how are temperance and feminism supposed to be alike in reference to Christianity?

Her argument literally makes no sense, in addition to being completely wrong.

[Rachel333]

I think the Bible is fairly anti-woman, especially the Old Testament. It bothers me, though, that fundies ignore the Biblical women who were prophets, apostles, and did things other than stay at home and have babies. In addition, I believe there is a lot of evidence that early Christian women were very active in ministry.

[danvillebelle]

I think the Bible is fairly anti-woman, especially the Old Testament. It bothers me, though, that fundies ignore the Biblical women who were prophets, apostles, and did things other than stay at home and have babies. In addition, I believe there is a lot of evidence that early Christian women were very active in ministry.

Indeed. And they weren't sitting around baking cookies. They were opening up their homes, supporting the apostles financially, and often getting sent to prison for it, just like the men. And WORKING - Aquila and Priscilla, anyone? They were BOTH tentmakers, she wasn't having tea parties while he was doing all the work.

Joanna, one of the followers of Jesus, was married to a man who worked in Herod's household. She had money and influence. She was using it to help further his ministry, there's no doubt in my mind.

[Trynn]

I vote with my "sexual tingles?"

How does this work if I'm an asexual?

I think someone needs to re-think things... plus, don't sexual tingles happen, you know, in the genitals? I don't know about her, but *I* vote with my fingers.

[France Nolan]

Tell that to:

St. Catherine of Sienna

St. Terese of Avil

St. Joan

St. Catherine of Alexandria

St. Hildegard

St. Lucy

St. Hedwig

And others, I'm sure. Hell, women are even considered Doctors of the Church now.

I can only imagine how she feels about my beloved Anne Hutchinson.

[OkToBeTakei]

No offence. But the whole feminist thing is a non event in my life. But it does seem to be a convenient vehicle for the right wing religion nut US folks to go all lets find a label and hate.

They just love to attach some misnomer to things they dislike/ fear.

[fundyfunland]

Oh man! So THAT'S why I voted for Jack Layton!

HAHA! That's exactly what I was thinking! Then I realized, I also voted for his wife Olivia Chow in my riding. I'm hetero, and wasn't attracted to Layton in the least. His & her minds & ideas on the other hand...ok maybe they 'satisfied' me a bit :P