Bad news: You can't be a Christian and a feminist

[Arete]

Honestly, I get pretty sick of both radical feminists and right wing Christians telling me what I can and cannot be, and what views I am and am not allowed to combine.

[fundyfunland]

No offence. But the whole feminist thing is a non event in my life. But it does seem to be a convenient vehicle for the right wing religion nut US folks to go all lets find a label and hate.

They just love to attach some misnomer to things they dislike/ fear.

Just wondering why "the whole feminist thing" seems to be a non-event in your life. I've read your posts and I'd classify you as a feminist, despite what you may think of yourself. It sounds like perhaps you think women have reached the same level in society as men. Although I disagree with this (we still make less than men, for starters), I have to ask, do you think society would carry on as is, and continue to support women's rights without a feminist voice? As far as I'm concerned, the minute women become complacent and no longer stand up to ensure that our rights CONTINUE to be upheld, is the minute they are challenged.

BTW...sorry if I've misinterpreted what you said. It's just that it comes across to me this way.

[wildrose]

HAHA! That's exactly what I was thinking! Then I realized, I also voted for his wife Olivia Chow in my riding. I'm hetero, and wasn't attracted to Layton in the least. His & her minds & ideas on the other hand...ok maybe they 'satisfied' me a bit :P

My NDP MP is a woman and I haven't been close enough to her to check out her facial hair. Maybe it was the NDP platform that I voted for....

[desertvixen]

SSM:

Temperance was a movement, much like feminism, that was begun by a small group of mentally-unstable women who desired to control men’s behavior. Carrie Nation, anyone?

Why, yes, they did desire to control men's behavior. Because "men's behavior" at that point encompassed issues like drinking away all the money, beating wives and children, abandoning wives and children... maybe they weren't all right, but they had a legit cause.

Plus, she tried more "feminine" tactics such as praying outside the saloons before she got busy with the hatchet...because as usual, being "ladylike" generally did not result in stuff getting changed.

SSM:

And most of us now understand that women’s suffrage has been a negative thing because women tend to vote with either their emotions or their sexual tingles.

No, I tend to vote largely with my desire to control what happens to my body. John McCain's appearance didn't turn me off, but the infamous air quotes around "women's health" sure did.

Patriarchy benefited women, not men, says Sunshine.

SSM:

Patriarchal social structure protected women. We were lucky that men ever cared for women like that; if and when the last vestiges of it are ever truly wiped out, women will realize how very much we depend upon men for physical sustenance and spiritual and emotional fulfillment.

It protected women as long as they stayed in their little lady-shaped box and didn't piss off any men. Not really my kind of system.

SSM:

Does feminism give women rights? Yes, that’s evident, but what about responsibilities? Feminists oppose women having the responsibility to:

* pay for their own birth control and abortions

* compete in the workplace without affirmative action

* perform as well as men in the military.

That doesn’t sound like equal responsibilities to me.

While I would prefer some government aid with the first, I'd be satisfied if they would get out of our way on the subject.

On the second, see failure of "acting ladylike". If we wait for the people in power to do the right thing out of the goodness of their heart, it's going to be awhile.

On the third, does SSM support women in combat? Sounds like it to me.

eta for quote box fail

[fundyfunland]

My NDP MP is a woman and I haven't been close enough to her to check out her facial hair. Maybe it was the NDP platform that I voted for....

Doubt it. NPD women are known to sport 'staches, so you were probably overcome with hormones and didn't realize that, that was the reason you were voting for her (if you voted for her) :P

[OkToBeTakei]

Just wondering why "the whole feminist thing" seems to be a non-event in your life. I've read your posts and I'd classify you as a feminist, despite what you may think of yourself. It sounds like perhaps you think women have reached the same level in society as men. Although I disagree with this (we still make less than men, for starters), I have to ask, do you think society would carry on as is, and continue to support women's rights without a feminist voice? As far as I'm concerned, the minute women become complacent and no longer stand up to ensure that our rights CONTINUE to be upheld, is the minute they are challenged.

BTW...sorry if I've misinterpreted what you said. It's just that it comes across to me this way.

No not at all. I have got in to many debates here regarding this and would like to clarify I am not from the US. More than anything what I detest is labels. More than anything it is important to walk the walk not talk the talk or wear a t-shirt which I remember from a previous thread. When the term itself has many negative connotations and open to such misinterpretation as in this case it highlights that fact even more.

[snuggles911]

The comments in response to Sunshine's post are scarier than her original post. One of her readers, an anti-feminist named The Shadowed Knight posted this:

Women need semen and dominance for their own mental health. They need to be sexed and controlled and held by strong, virile men. Despite this, they have spent several decades building and enforcing a system that denies them these needs. It is no wonder they are not happy.

The rape hysteria could easily be a manifestation of the repression of their need for domination. Women are social creatures, and with the stigmatization of dominant males means that rape is the only socially acceptable form of submissive behavior available to them. This ties into the rape/ravishment/use fantasy. They desperately want to be raped/ravished/used, because they can enjoy the masculine dominance and free their feminine submissiveness while not paying a social price.

[Burris]

Does feminism give women rights? Yes, that’s evident, but what about responsibilities? Feminists oppose women having the responsibility to:

* pay for their own birth control and abortions

* compete in the workplace without affirmative action

* perform as well as men in the military.

That doesn’t sound like equal responsibilities to me.

Sunshine is basically arguing that equal rights adhere to equal capacities rather than to membership in the human race. By that logic, men with disabilities should have fewer rights than men without - and fetuses, which have no ability to contribute at all, should have no rights.

And those men and women who have served in the armed forces anywhere - even for an oppressive nation whose values look entirely different from those of the United States (or Canada or most of Europe, etc) - should have more rights than the civilians of their new host country. Well, score! I have a massive pile of laundry that needs doing, and since Sunshine is my inferior, I think it's only fair she should wash my clothes.

Sunshine isn't very bright, as evidenced by her belief in a meritocracy where someone such as herself would have virtually no rights, given that she's never contributed anything intellectually to, or even entertained, the popular culture.

[DistantStar]

I'll be sure to go tell my church friends that we can't be feminists and Christians. I will also send off an email to the current head of said church on the national level and tell her that she can't be one either. :rolleyes:

[lizziesmom]

The comments in response to Sunshine's post are scarier than her original post. One of her readers, an anti-feminist named The Shadowed Knight posted this:

Is this guy part of the committee who puts together the GOP platform?

[Trynn]

Women need semen and dominance for their own mental health.

They do realize that this is an argument FOR premartial sex, right?

So, that's what's going to cure my depression?Semen and dominance? Huh, fascinating. Wonder where I could get some. /sarcasm.

[singsingsing]

I laughed so hard at 'semen and dominance'! I'm not into effeminate men, but I most definitely do not find the pushy, arrogant, dominant 'alpha male' type sexually appealing AT ALL. In fact, I find that kind of personality repulsive. The thought of having sex with a guy like that is a huge turn off. I do not have rape fantasies. I want sex to be about mutual pleasure and enjoying each other, not about me being ravished/used by some douchebag who thinks he just stepped out of a cheap bodice ripper. These women seriously need to stop projecting their own issues with sexuality onto the rest of us.

[docmom]

Wow, for a movment that has left so many women in abject misery, the current manifstations of feminism seem awfully popular. It's kind of hard to believe that all the women I know who are in equality based marriages, are working, obtaining advanced degrees and, in many cases, leading men at work are actually terribly unhappy and panting for "semen and dominance". In fact, I can absolutely guarantee that every. single. one. of them would find SSM's life hell.

[RachelB]

I laughed so hard at 'semen and dominance'! I'm not into effeminate men, but I most definitely do not find the pushy, arrogant, dominant 'alpha male' type sexually appealing AT ALL. In fact, I find that kind of personality repulsive. The thought of having sex with a guy like that is a huge turn off. I do not have rape fantasies. I want sex to be about mutual pleasure and enjoying each other, not about me being ravished/used by some douchebag who thinks he just stepped out of a cheap bodice ripper. These women seriously need to stop projecting their own issues with sexuality onto the rest of us.

+1

I have to imagine that, if Sunshine Mary is a woman, she doesn't have a lot of female friends. If she had female friends, even if none of them were lesbian or bi, she would realize that their opinions and preferences are a lot more diverse than she's acknowledging. I really resent it when someone tries to speak for all women, especially without talking to any (other) women about what they think.

[desertvixen]

The comments in response to Sunshine's post are scarier than her original post. One of her readers, an anti-feminist named The Shadowed Knight posted this:

You know, I'm not opposed to being dominated (in a fun sexytimes way) but this is ridiculous.

Strength and virility, luckily, can be found in a non-alpha-hole package.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

If anti-feminists were really so deliriously happy staying in their little bubbles, knitting doilies, and giving on-demand blowjobs all day, they wouldn't bother constantly lecturing the rest of us and getting into a tizzy about the fact that we don't live as they do. They'd be too content to do that, and really, why would they feel the need to proselytize if the home and the marriage satisfy 100% of their needs? And if they did truly want to reach out because they believed their way of life was so much better, they would do it gently, not with so much hateful, smug, dripping condescension. The daily rants of the likes of Lori Alexander just prove that most women do, indeed, need an outlet outside TEH HOME to exercise their intellect, leadership, etc.

[Anxious Girl]

Why isn't shitstainmary shutting up? I mean, the Bible's against women speaking freely unless spoken to, right? She's a hypocritical bitch who wants to be seen as a speshul snowflake. I mean, it's kinda sad at the same time. She downgrades her own self-worth for fundie and MRA internet fame.

[Miggy]

Sexual tingles? We have an election here in a couple of months and voting is compulsory.

(1) I must remember to contain myself and not draw in an extra box and vote for my husband.

(2) The majority of male politicians are old men in suits. They look identical and that look is not sexually attractive to me. Is she suggesting that voting will turn me lesbian as some of the female candidates are quite attractive women.

[tenth muse]

Another tool in the box.

[LostSamurai]

You can't be a Christian and a feminist? I'll tell the Catholic Church to ban half of their saints then.

[Anxious Girl]

You can't be a Christian and a feminist? I'll tell the Catholic Church to ban half of their saints then.

According to fundie Christians who don't have Saints, Catholics and Orthodox Christians aren't true Christians!tm because they aren't Biblical enough applying Leviticus laws that were meant for Israelites and appropriating Jewish culture to every-day life and they worship honor saints. :roll: