Lori: Something's Wrong with Men Who Don't Want Submission

[GeoBQn]

Men, if you don't want your wife to submit, then don't come crying to Lori when your marriage falls apart.

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/03/for-husbands-who-dont-want-submissive.html

I do things like make my husband his favorite foods and find ways to make him happy because I love my husband, respect him as a person, and because I WANT to, and not because I am trying to fill a subordinate role--and he does the same thing for me.

[MarsGirl]

Sheesh, does this lady ever shut up? If she's a Godly housewife, why is she spending all her time on the internet writing blog entries? Shouldnt she be tending to her house and her husband??

[GeoBQn]

We should just have an entire sub-forum called "A Quiver Full of Snarking on Lori."

[MarsGirl]

For real. She's really horrible. She frightens me more than the Duggars.

[rbella627]

Does she fail to realize that not submitting does not equate to being a total b*tch? Maybe that it means more of a partnership, where both husband and wife do things to please each other and make each other happy. This woman is so black & white with her thinking, which is seriously twisted. I guess her way is the only way to live then?

I guess something must be wrong with my husband, according to her! :roll:

[Joan of Snarc]

This woman's a fucking broken record. :roll:

I googled "annoying broken record" to see if there was a funny pic to spice up my post and these two images came up:

[MarsGirl]

Oh puke. I just read this entry and it infuriates me. What about the man sexually pleasing the woman? Why is it in this fundie society that it's all about the man's happiness?! The woman is not allowed to be happy? A real marriage is made up of both people making each other happy... and sexually satisfied. Egads, I'm so glad I dont live the life of these fundies.

[skeptifem]

What a bleak view of men. She might as well be a robot.

[Burris]

What a bleak view of men. She might as well be a robot.

It's odd she doesn't recognize how her view of men is insulting.

ETA:

And isn't this...

So husbands, if you don't want your wives to submit, it is completely your fault when your marriage falls apart...

...teaching and preaching at men?

Lori, you lowly vaginal creature - where do you get off scolding your superiors?

[2xx1xy1JD]

Are all of those questions really about wifely submission, or are they about spouses simply treating each other well?

Husbands and wives should both want to please each other.

Husbands and wives should both want to give each other sexual pleasure.

Nobody - husband or wife - wants to constantly argue or be treated with disrespect.

That all seems to be more about the Golden Rule than wifely submission.

(Let's see if this makes it through comment moderation.)

[Sobeknofret]

Wow. My husband doesn't want me to submit; he wants, he needs, a partner that he can trust, not someone he needs to micromanage to get shit done. We've been together for nearly 25 years, so I guess the egalitarian thing is working out well for us.

If Lori Alexander ever has a substantial thought in her head that wasn't put there by her husband, I'd be mightily shocked.

[Claddagh]

I strongly doubt it'll be posted but here's my comment.

My dad didn't want a submissive wife. He wanted a woman who would speak her mind and if she disagreed with him to speak up so they could discuss it. My parents had a very good marriage for thirty years. It only ended because my mom died from leukemia.

You don't want me to please you?

Isn't marriage a partnership where both sides have to contribute? You can't have one party giving everything up to make another happy and expect it to work. You know that quote about a house divided....

You don't want me to give you sex when you want it?

This always annoys me. A person does not have the right to demand sex or say it's owed to them. My ex-boyfriend once told me men "die without sex." I looked at him and said "A man can survive without getting some for a month. Try not breathing for a month."

You don't want me to fix your favorite foods?

Fixing a person their favorite food is being nice, again, not something that's automatically owed because one partner has a penis.

You want me to continue arguing and quarreling with you?

Everyone argues at one point or another. And your point is....?

You like it when I give you the cold shoulder?

You like me to always insist on winning arguments?

You don't want me to do things you ask me to do and conveniently forget

about them?

You want me to speak ill of you to others?

You want me to not respect or appreciate you?

Everyone's probably ranted about their partner or their parents at one point or another. It happens and sometimes they really piss us off. To intentionally go around and say nasty things about a person is being immature.

Promising to do something and then "forgetting" is passive-agressive and immature.

Respect and appreciation are earned, they aren't handed out like Hallowe'en candy because of gender.

[lilwriter85]

For real. She's really horrible. She frightens me more than the Duggars.

In some ways, she does frighten me more than the Duggars. The Duggars do spank, but I suspect they don't have the major spanking and "training" beliefs that Lori has. But in some ways, Lori is a tad better than the Duggars. Yes, she is very sexist and is against women going to college. She at least encouraged her kids to consider college and one of her sons is in orthodontic school and one of her daughters has a college degree. I don't know if the other son attended college. Lori also supported her kids having hobbies outside the home and her oldest daughter was a ballerina. Things like that aren't happening with the Duggars.

Lately, Lori has started creep me out more than Michelle Duggar and some of the other fundie women we discuss here. Her views on sex and submission are extremely disturbing. Lori's husband is also horrible. This might sound crazy, but I think Ken is creepier than Steve Maxwell. Michelle and Jim Bob don't have the kind of darkness than Ken and Lori have. I think Jim Bob is an asshole, but I think he would more pleasant than Ken. When I first started reading Lori's blog, I didn't expect her to be in the same level as Zsu, Stinking Housewife, Kendull, Kelly C. After reading her blog, for several months I have put her in that level. In some ways, she annoys me more than Zsu. Lori is an older version of Kendull. The sad thing is that Lori's adult children seem to be following her extreme beliefs. Her son force feeding his toddler daughter is a scary example.

[Burris]

If Lori Alexander ever has a substantial thought in her head that wasn't put there by her husband, I'd be mightily shocked.

I actually think it might be the other way around a lot of the time; that, like Kelly Crawford, Lori sees submission as a means to control her husband through guilt. (Lori wants to turn her, um, frog into a prince.) A lot of these fundie woman blogs suggest the pay-off, in the end, is a better husband. If submission were a duty in itself, uncoupled from a husband's actions, then fundie authors wouldn't talk about how men can be changed without a word by the actions of women. Yes, a Bible verse mentions it, but fundie scribblers - and now I'm speaking of far more people that just Lori - wouldn't continue to hammer that point.

[lilwriter85]

What a bleak view of men. She might as well be a robot.

Her view is really bleak. Here a couple of other Lori postings on men. In both postings, she has a very stereotypical view of men.

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2012/08/admiring-his-masculinity.html

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2012/09/are-women-weaker-vessel.html

[GolightlyGrrl]

Oh puke. I just read this entry and it infuriates me. What about the man sexually pleasing the woman? Why is it in this fundie society that it's all about the man's happiness?! The woman is not allowed to be happy? A real marriage is made up of both people making each other happy... and sexually satisfied. Egads, I'm so glad I dont live the life of these fundies.

Ken probably thinks the clitoris is a dinosaur found at the Creation Museum.

[lilwriter85]

From the fangirl comments

Victoria · 41 minutes ago

I always think about this when reading your blogs. My brother is the type of man who wants a wife who works and does things besides keeping home. His fiancee just had a baby and is stunningly good at being a home maker and mother. I feel bad when my brother looks down on her and says mean things to her. Anyone reading this please pray for his heart. She is really trying to do what she needs to do and it's hard. I am so proud of her I wish my brother could see what a blessing he has and stop worshiping money. I also wish he would put marrying her first and foremost but he isn't. I know this is really personal stuff but it has been heavy on my heart and I just have been praying so much for them. I know they are not technically married so I am not sure how to give her advice either. I don't want her to marry him and be in a bad relationship but they have a child. Also, she is now a Christian and is trying to do right.

Lori Alexander · 24 minutes ago

She needs to go about winning him without a word as she lives a godly life in front of him. Your brother needs to marry her since they have a child together and are already playing married life. She needs to be praying consistently for her "husband" and treat him as such since they are "one flesh." Counsel her to be in the word daily and maybe you can mentor her. She will need encouragement to do things God's ways and not the world's. I will pray for them right now and God can do abundantly more than we ask or imagine.

Victoria might be telling the truth about her brother being mean and wanting his wife to work. I also think there is a huge possibility that Victoria is either exaggerating or lying about her brother.

Barf worthy comment

Nicole Taulman · 42 minutes ago

Lori, thank you for this post. I am especially needing this right now. I have been pouring over you and Ken's most recent posts on submission as my husband and I are STRUGGLING right now, and I think a lot of it as to do with MY incorrect definition of submission. I almost cried when I read this post because I CAN DO THESE THINGS! I like to do these things! I like to please my husband, and he is a grateful, loving man who will be thrilled to have me consistently do these things. What I have learned is that his leadership of our home has nothing to do with my submission. They are separate acts. If I am able to practice these acts of submission, I feel free to turn my husband's difficulties with leadership over to God to handle. I have enough problems of my own. Thank you, Lori. I feel like I have my own personal marriage counselor with you and Ken. God bless.

Lori Alexander · 23 minutes ago

As you seek to please him in all areas, he will become the leader God wants him to become. Begin in the little things like asking where he wants to go for dinner, etc. Most men in our society feel so emasculated and have no idea how to lead because they haven't seen strong men be leaders just as we haven't seen submissive wives to model. Your submission WILL help him become a better leader! Just work on being the godly help meet God has called you to become and allow the Lord to convict and change your husband. Pursue peace with all men...including you husband!

LORI IS NOT A MARRIAGE COUNSELOR.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Why would anyone want to take Lori's marriage advice.

Its a recipe for ending up in an abusive relationship, and manages to be sexist to both men and women at the same time.

If I wanted something that worshipped the ground I walked on and obeyed me, I would get a dog. When it comes to relationships, a submissive fundie helpmeet would annoy me so much, I might as well have a 5 year old who is intelligent enough to use the oven. I want someone with a brain, who is intelligent, with opinions and thoughts who can be a friend of mine. Fundie men see wives as a maid/prostitute they dont have to pay.

[Spider Burps]

Ken probably thinks the clitoris is a dinosaur found at the Creation Museum.

The Clitorisaurus Rex is always crowd pleaser at the Creation Museum. It's truly a divine example of God's majesty and whatnot.

[2xx1xy1JD]

So far, my comment hasn't made it through moderation. I thought it was pretty mild and fair and reasonable, but apparently that's not what Lori wants to publish.

[GeoBQn]

Lori said in a comment to a previous post that she's set her comment filters so that comments from "known trolls" go directly to a spam folder so she never sees them.

[lilwriter85]

Why would anyone want to take Lori's marriage advice.

Its a recipe for ending up in an abusive relationship, and manages to be sexist to both men and women at the same time.

If I wanted something that worshipped the ground I walked on and obeyed me, I would get a dog. When it comes to relationships, a submissive fundie helpmeet would annoy me so much, I might as well have a 5 year old who is intelligent enough to use the oven. I want someone with a brain, who is intelligent, with opinions and thoughts who can be a friend of mine. Fundie men see wives as a maid/prostitute they dont have to pay.

I think most of the women come from similar backgrounds to Lori. There are conservative Christian women that wouldn't take Lori's advice because it is too extreme. I hate to sound mean, but some of her fangirls are idiots to not see the many red flags about Lori and Ken. She has posted many times about how women should never refuse sex. Ken or Lori posted a comment against women's shelters the other day. Lori and Ken look phony in pictures. I've said this before, but I wouldn't be surprised if a tragedy linked to L&K's advice happens someday.

[lilwriter85]

Lori said in a comment to a previous post that she's set her comment filters so that comments from "known trolls" go directly to a spam folder so she never sees them.

I have never commented on Lori's blog. I know several FJers have done so a few times. She has even emailed a couple of them to "lecture" them.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Does the irony of this post occur to Lori?

My husband is a man. According to Lori, I should be listening to him and not arguing or contradicting, but respecting his wishes. Right?

Well, he's made it clear that he wants me to freely express my views, call him out when he's acting like a jerk, and not go along with anything if I don't truly agree. Using Lori's logic - as a good wife, wouldn't I just respect my husband and his views?

Yet here's Lori, a woman inciting other women to convince their husbands that they are wrong.

Well, no Lori. I actually love and respect my husband. I think the fact that he has no NEED to control me is a good thing and a sign that he's a decent human being. I am not willing to see this as a flaw in my husband. Unlike you, I'm not naturally a critical bitch, so I can show love and respect without struggling to suppress my desires, and I'm not married to a man who gets off on watching his wife struggle to deny herself. Call me arrogant, but I believe that my husband is simply a better person than Ken.

[jenny_islander]

We've been together in a "wrong" mutually submissive relationship since 1989. My husband persists in asking for my opinion, being glad that I can earn my own spending money, and leaving me to make the decisions about the areas of our lives in which I do most of the work. Our marriage is going to fall apart any day now. Yep. Aaaaaaaany day now.