OK, OK...time to delurk...Jeubs, Maxwells, and more

[deelaem]

Best typo ever. It made me imagine Jesus with a blog.

I know, how awesome was that? I'll bet if Chris(t) Jeub saw that, he'd say "Finally!" :lol:

[ems]

Yes, perspective is my friend, thank you, and I will rethink it when a single scientific study finds that spanking is effective and nondamaging.

ALSO :

One meta-analysis of studies performed on children found that even mild corporal punishment was damaging (Larzelere and Kuhn 2005).

Spanked children more likely than nonspanked to have aggressive and criminal behavior (Cohen 1996).

Another study found that found that physical discipline is linked in a variety of cultures and nation with increases in aggression and anxiety in children(Lansford et al 2005).

A study found that it raises the chances of sexual deviancy. http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/ ... havior.htm

Spanking is linked by numerous APA studies to violent behavior and poor outcomes. http://www.apa.org/about/governance/cou ... hment.aspx

Spanking has been found to lower intelligence. http://www.suite101.com/content/spankin ... ce-a156068

Children who were spanked are more likely to have anxiety and psychiatric problems as adults. http://www.cmaj.ca/content/161/7/805.long

eta: sorry, that graph did not copy and paste well.

Note, though, that the study found a link between "severe" and "extreme" physical punishment and crime. My own childless self is not a fan of spanking as I think there are far better ways to teach children moral reasoning and to be hardworking, productive, and compassionate human beings (and also to NOT hit in frustration), but I do think there is a BIG difference between the occasional spanking and beating or switching a child (or especially! an infant), and I think we need to differentiate when we discuss the issue. Spanking does not = beating.

[demgirl]

Re: the whole spanking thing... I always really liked what Marmee said in Little Women (circa Susan Sarandon Marmee), which I'm aware outs me as a total dork:

'' Mr. Davis...

what right have you to strike a child?

In God's eyes we are all children and we are all equals.

If you hit and humiliate a child, the only lesson she will learn...

is to hit and humiliate.''

As a child who was often beaten for punishment, that always reallly resonated with me.

[Guest Anonymous]

I would agree that spanking does not ALWAYS = beating, though I still believe it is always wrong.

There is quite a lot of difference though (in terms of pain) between a symbolic tap on the wrist and hitting a child on the thigh with a switch, which is what is often spoken of in fundie circles.

I too, am glad Lalabee is here and has turned away from the Pearl teaching, and am sorry if my earlier posts came across as shaming, but I am really, really curious about what goes on in the background to 'prepare' parents, or to create a readiness to accept the Pearl teaching.

There is a thread running currently on NLQ, where a few women are talking about what drew them into quiverfull. Many are saying that it was incremental, starting with homeschooling and then leading to believing the promises of a perfect life. One or two are going deeper and talking about having emotionally distant parents and difficult childhoods.

I think it is a really important subject to explore. Many of the women at NLQ are very keen to speak out against the institution of Patriarchy and I think they are right to do so, but it remains that some people get sucked into it where others don't, and I am really interested to understand the predisposing factors to getting sucked in.

I think that challenging the massive institutions that promote this crap is one way to attack it, but understanding the underlying psychological and situational factors of individuals who get drawn into it might also go a long way to understanding how future generations of young parents might be supported and educated to make better choices.

[ems]

Re: the whole spanking thing... I always really liked what Marmee said in Little Women (circa Susan Sarandon Marmee), which I'm aware outs me as a total dork:

As a child who was often beaten for punishment, that always reallly resonated with me.

As a fellow dork, I like this a lot too :) I remember some similar passages from Jane Eyre, though unfortunately I can't quote them.

As I said, I'm not a huge fan of spanking myself...so maybe when I think of spanking I'm thinking a gentle swat on a diapered butt as a last resort, as that is the only type of spanking I could see myself performing. That being said I'm just mainly bothered when it seems that "spanking" and "beating" are used interchangeably. What the Pearls advocate is by no means the same as the average spanking parent in my eyes.

But as your quote suggests, we should stand up for parenting techniques that teach through example to love and empathize rather than hit and humiliate. So props to that.

[Witsec1]

As a fellow dork, I like this a lot too :) I remember some similar passages from Jane Eyre, though unfortunately I can't quote them.

Yes!

I am not talking to you now through the medium of custom, conventionalities, nor even of mortal flesh: it is my spirit that addresses your spirit; just as if both had passed through the grave, and we stood at God's feet, equal — as we are!

A cage match between the Bronte Sisters and the Bayly Brothers would be worth seeing.

Edited for riffles

[formerlyfundie]

Lalabee...I just wanted to tell you that I understand COMPLETELY. I just recently freed myself and my little family from the ridiculousness of fundie life, and I am still working on my relationship with God and other Christians because of it. Hearing what you are saying rings so true to me right now. We were first attracted by the Duggars, and then the more blogs, families, and things of that matter I was exposed to, the more I wanted it. I didn't wear pants or anything ~immodest for almost 3 years, dabbled with headcovering here and there, and had two babies in a year's time...and they are the only really great thing I got from the whole mess. Truth is, in that lifestyle, you are under a constant microscope, if not from God, then from other families like yours, they are WAITING for you to mess up, looking for a reason to hold you "accountable" so they can minister to you. It is such an unrealistic lifestyle, such a false way of living, you forget who you are really supposed to be impressing which is supposed to be God. I mean my kids are little babies, and I would not let them get dirty, not allow my son to be loud and crazy like he is naturally, and had dreams of my baby daughter being this SAHD...and one day I realized how I could be holding her back from life. She can be anything she wants, she was made to do SOMETHING, and forcing her, well, guilting her to stay home and be Mom to other siblings? Absolutely not.

Sorry for the rant lol, but I feel ya honey, I'm right there with you.