Hanna Williams body to be exhumed

[JaChelle Sugar]

Add me to the list of FJers wondering why should it matter how old she was. A human being was systematically tortured and deliberately left exposed to the element's, by people who's identity is known, and she died from it.

[thekate]

I dont think her age should matter, she was still beaten and murdered by her parents captors.

Fixed the riffle.

[AnnieC 305]

They need someone upon whom to take out their anger/aggression/dysfunction. They need scapegoats. How they pass the examinations has always *somewhat* puzzled me, but people can learn how to say the right things.

Christian privilege. I firmly believe that as long as you're a member of the right church and say the right things at least some, if not the majority, of social workers will just skim over the approval process. After all, your Their Kind of Christian, you simply must be good people.

At the same time if you're not Their Kind of Christian there is so much distrust that they will not pass you simply based on that, regardless of what you say or do with the homestudy.

[JaChelle Sugar]

Christian privilege. I firmly believe that as long as you're a member of the right church and say the right things at least some, if not the majority, of social workers will just skim over the approval process. After all, your Their Kind of Christian, you simply must be good people.

At the same time if you're not Their Kind of Christian there is so much distrust that they will not pass you simply based on that, regardless of what you say or do with the homestudy.

Disgusting. And these people have the gall to claim their persecuted.

[jenny_islander]

I hope they get everything they have coming to them. I just don't understand why people who so obviously hate children would adopt or have children or have anything whatsoever to do with children in any way.

Because the point is to prove the value of the fundamentalist worldview by adopting a little heathen (and never mind that Hanna Williams was probably raised Christian--she was some kind of brown Christian, so that doesn't count) and getting her/him to behave in lockstep with the fundamentalist ideal. Since the fundamentalist ideal breaks people down, obviously the child has to broken to her/his place.

If she dies, she was a little sinner. If she lives, she's a shining example. In either case, product, not a person.

[Nothing2CHere]

Horrible, just horrible. I was only able to read about half of the affidavit. I have two nieces who were adopted from Ethiopia, so I suppose I'm especially sensitive when I learn that internationally adopted children, especially if they're Ethiopian, are abused and mistreated, because I know what a difficult process it was for my nieces to be adopted. I am heartbroken to read about this, and can't imagine what was going through these parents' minds as they treated their children this way. Hanna and her brother weren't projects to try to mold into "perfect Christian beings" - they were children who went through tough times and needed love and understanding.

[lilith]

Add me to the list of FJers wondering why should it matter how old she was. A human being was systematically tortured and deliberately left exposed to the element's, by people who's identity is known, and she died from it.

If the US legal system is like the legal system here, getting the right charge is important.

If they are charged with something like "child abuse resulting in the death of a child" or even murder, with the victim being a minor as an aggravating factor, and convicted, and it is revealed later that the victim was an adult, the convictions can be overturned and, under double jeopardy provisions, the parents couldn't be tried again for the same crime.

That would explain why the prosecutors are going to great lengths to make the charges fit exactly.

[Bloo]

I don't care what the parents are charged with as long as it sticks and they get the maximum sentence. Exhume away if it helps.

Of course, I also don't believe that one is disturbing anything but dirt when a grave is dug up.

I don't want the oldest child charged, though, as someone mentioned above. If he was seventeen at the time, he was still a minor and at most four years older than Hana. Anything inflicted by him is most likely a further reflection of the parents' (and the Pearls') evil. He was likely subject to similar abuses and simply was luckier than poor Hana.

[Vex]

Poor Hanna. I'm devastated that they're having to exhume her body - God knows that girl deserves to rest in peace - but if it will bring those disgusting subhumans to justice, I fully support it. I've managed to get several Christian book stores here to stop selling the Pearl's nonsense and in some cases prevent them from stocking it (all I do is make them aware of the content, most are totally horrified and completely unaware), and I'm really hoping that finding her parents guilty will be the first step towards the Pearls having to face accountability for the dreck they sell.

[Lillybee]

If the parents of Lydia Schatz hadn't agreed to a plea bargin, Butte County DA Ramsey was planning on calling Michael Pearl as a witness.

[lilith]

If the parents of Lydia Schatz hadn't agreed to a plea bargin, Butte County DA Ramsey was planning on calling Michael Pearl as a witness.

Now that I would have loved to see, even though he would have pleaded the fifth to every question, probably even his own name. The rants we would have got on his blog about the godless, sodomite enabling court having no jurisdiction over a godly Christian patriarch would have been priceless, as would have been seeing him held for contempt.

[chaotic life]

I read details a year ago but this had a LOT more details than I had read before.

I am FURIOUS that this child's torture began when she failed to use the bathroom the way THEY dicated. First, her poop was NOT a risk to anyone on the face of this earth. She had Hepatitis B, not A thus it is NOT transmitted via the fecal-oral route. Second, all of the argument you can make that the menstral blood might expose someone the way you fix that is you VACCINATE the other children!!! You don't torture and isolate the child with Hep B. Why the fuck did they adopt two special needs children they were too STUPID to parent???? Why the fuck did any agency ALLOW them to adopt two special needs children???

When I was a very little girl, the janitor at the international school where my sister went to school in Latin America was refilling the water cooler bottles with tap water. They found out because a slew of the kids got Hep A from the contaminated water, including my older sister. I have memories of the Christmas my sister was so sick we all feared for her health and Dad had to carry her to celebrate Christmas because she was too weak to walk to the living room. We did NOT isolate her and treat her like garbage even if her disease DID spread by fecal-oral.

If you adopt a child with Hepatitis B, you simply VACCINATE (you can now vaccinate for Hep A too but it's an entirely different disease). I really think no agency should agree to allow a family to adopt a Hep B positive child unless they vaccinate the other children in the house so that the Hep B is simply a NON-ISSUE for the health of the family. The only person you need to be worried about with Hep B is that child who is positive who might have it attack their liver at some point in their lives!

[Lillybee]

I read details a year ago but this had a LOT more details than I had read before.

I am FURIOUS that this child's torture began when she failed to use the bathroom the way THEY dicated. First, her poop was NOT a risk to anyone on the face of this earth. She had Hepatitis B, not A thus it is NOT transmitted via the fecal-oral route. Second, all of the argument you can make that the menstral blood might expose someone the way you fix that is you VACCINATE the other children!!! You don't torture and isolate the child with Hep B. Why the fuck did they adopt two special needs children they were too STUPID to parent???? Why the fuck did any agency ALLOW them to adopt two special needs children???

When I was a very little girl, the janitor at the international school where my sister went to school in Latin America was refilling the water cooler bottles with tap water. They found out because a slew of the kids got Hep A from the contaminated water, including my older sister. I have memories of the Christmas my sister was so sick we all feared for her health and Dad had to carry her to celebrate Christmas because she was too weak to walk to the living room. We did NOT isolate her and treat her like garbage even if her disease DID spread by fecal-oral.

If you adopt a child with Hepatitis B, you simply VACCINATE (you can now vaccinate for Hep A too but it's an entirely different disease). I really think no agency should agree to allow a family to adopt a Hep B positive child unless they vaccinate the other children in the house so that the Hep B is simply a NON-ISSUE for the health of the family. The only person you need to be worried about with Hep B is that child who is positive who might have it attack their liver at some point in their lives!

What you are saying is true. I want to add, that if one is adopting a deaf, mute child who really doesn't understand English, there should be a plan put in place to help him communicate.

[BravaAmica]

You know, there is very little news coverage of this case up here. I live only 25 miles away from where she died and you'd think the local media would be all over it. One thing that did piss me off was how the comments in the local paper were moderated. I posted the link to the PDF above and also wondered if anyone had any thing else to tie them in with the Pearls. And that comment was taken down ASAP and I was banned.

I don't know if the father is still employed by Boeing. I wouldn't be surprised if he's suspended (not sure with pay, but it's possible) until he's convicted or not. That would avoid a lawsuit for Boeing if the guy doesn't get convicted. And I do think their church is paying for Williams' legal fees.

[chaotic life]

Yes I agree that their treatment of the other child was just as horrifying but somehow he managed to survive. I was floored to read the description that if he "pretended" to not hear his parents he would be punished. He's DEAF, what pretend is there???? He cannot hear and stomping on concrete floors?? Yeah, even my very low IQ son knew that wasn't going to get anyone's attention!

I want to be surprised that churches stand behind people like this. For Christians, it should just be SOO basic, if you cause a child to stumble you deserve to go to hell!

My newest son will still tell us that his first adoptive family was right to punish and abuse him, that they were justified in throwing him away because they had to "protect" their birth children. Protect them from WHAT? He has bought the garbage hook, line and sinker that they needed to protect the other children from HIM. Funny, no one in our house needs protected from such a gentle and protective spirit but that was the story for why three children were thrown away from the first adoptive home.

[BravaAmica]

My newest son will still tell us that his first adoptive family was right to punish and abuse him, that they were justified in throwing him away because they had to "protect" their birth children. Protect them from WHAT? He has bought the garbage hook, line and sinker that they needed to protect the other children from HIM. Funny, no one in our house needs protected from such a gentle and protective spirit but that was the story for why three children were thrown away from the first adoptive home.

This breaks my heart. I am so glad your son has you in his life to show him that he is an amazing, wonderful boy.

[Austin]

You know, there is very little news coverage of this case up here. I live only 25 miles away from where she died and you'd think the local media would be all over it. One thing that did piss me off was how the comments in the local paper were moderated. I posted the link to the PDF above and also wondered if anyone had any thing else to tie them in with the Pearls. And that comment was taken down ASAP and I was banned.

I don't know if the father is still employed by Boeing. I wouldn't be surprised if he's suspended (not sure with pay, but it's possible) until he's convicted or not. That would avoid a lawsuit for Boeing if the guy doesn't get convicted. And I do think their church is paying for Williams' legal fees.

If they were of any other religion, I have a feeling it would be covered a lot more. But because these people claim to be Christians, heaven forbid the media shine too bright of a spotlight on it.

I'm so fucking tired of Christians screaming persecution when the fact is, they are given special consideration in our society constantly.

[BravaAmica]

If they were of any other religion, I have a feeling it would be covered a lot more. But because these people claim to be Christians, heaven forbid the media shine too bright of a spotlight on it.

I'm so fucking tired of Christians screaming persecution when the fact is, they are given special consideration in our society constantly.

I agree. And Skagit county is very conservative. There's a lot of conservative Christians of many stripes- homeschooling, homesteading, preppers, "mainstream," hipster- but they're all uber-conservative.

[WonderingInWA]

Sadly, I live just about 45 minutes south of where this poor girl died. I remember hearing about it, but never really followed the story. But I have just now read through the entire CPS investigation and am appalled that all the stories from the children are so consistant. I have so many questions about how this couple managed to adopt the kids in the first place? And how the abuse was never discovered or stopped.

I will be interested to see what comes out. I don't know what they expect to find by exhuming her grave. Wouldn't xrays have been done as part of her autopsy? A friend of mine in law enforcement said they might be going back to examine "grave wax" for things the coroner may have missed that could seal a conviction.

In any event, a girl who was supposed to have a better life here in the US ended up dead instead. At the hands of people who presumeably wanted to at least initially give her a better life. I hope their biological children and the other adopted boy can somehow find peace as they grow up over this senselessly abusive home life they knew.

And honestly -- they profess to be Christians? How fucked up is that?

[Lillybee]

I live in the area that Lydia Schatz died and there was almost no media attention to her death. I wonder if it was because this is a very conservative part of Northern California.

[WonderingInWA]

Thankfully the Lydia Schatz case and outcome should be a precedent for the final sentencing of Hanna Williams' "parents", although no sentence other than torture would be severe enough. What continues to blow my mind is that the Pearls aren't held liable for any of their teachings because they aren't forcing people to do anything. Free speech is never going away.

[chaotic life]

Didn't Michael Pearl get called to testify in Sean Paddock's case? IIRC Pearl simply asserted that Lynn misused his methods and that he was in no way responsible for the abuse she put her children through. Paddock's case was an imperfect case to convict Pearl on in the first place because she did clearly go beyond what he advocates. However, I believe with all of my heart that Sean's death was the first clear indication of what IS dangerous about Pearl's teachings, especially with adoptees you are not attached to before you begin beating them. Lydia's case was a far more perfect example and I have heard rumors that they had evidence directly linking Pearl himself to the actions on the day that actually killed her. However, Lydia's parents did a plea bargain so there was no opportunity for the prosecutor to go after Pearl in that case.

I am afraid that Pearl will not be shut down until some survivors sue him in civil court for the MILLIONS he rakes in every year in his "ministry." Perhaps of Lydia's surviving siblings sued No Greater Joy for culpability in their own abuse and the death of their sister it might accomplish more. Sadly, most kids who endure the torture Pearl advocates lack the strength to sue in a timeframe that would do any good.

[WonderingInWA]

Didn't Michael Pearl get called to testify in Sean Paddock's case? IIRC Pearl simply asserted that Lynn misused his methods and that he was in no way responsible for the abuse she put her children through. Paddock's case was an imperfect case to convict Pearl on in the first place because she did clearly go beyond what he advocates. However, I believe with all of my heart that Sean's death was the first clear indication of what IS dangerous about Pearl's teachings, especially with adoptees you are not attached to before you begin beating them. Lydia's case was a far more perfect example and I have heard rumors that they had evidence directly linking Pearl himself to the actions on the day that actually killed her. However, Lydia's parents did a plea bargain so there was no opportunity for the prosecutor to go after Pearl in that case.

I am afraid that Pearl will not be shut down until some survivors sue him in civil court for the MILLIONS he rakes in every year in his "ministry." Perhaps of Lydia's surviving siblings sued No Greater Joy for culpability in their own abuse and the death of their sister it might accomplish more. Sadly, most kids who endure the torture Pearl advocates lack the strength to sue in a timeframe that would do any good.

It's going to take a group of like-minded lawyers who have it in their hearts to bring Pearl down and don't mind getting paid to do it to put a stop to that man. It would be a long and arduous fight for sure because our judicial system doesn't really address people of his type (it's hard to prove manipulation is criminal). I just would like to see children who have been wounded and abused at the hands of their parents based on his advocation of hitting them with plumbing line rise above and get justice. And I know he thinks his kids are all perfect because he beat them into submission, but if he weren't alive, I'm guessing one by one, they'd start talking about what it was really like living in their home and growing up.

[JesusFightClub]

Not sure about this one. I suspect strongly however the Pearls can't be held liable (I do not think they can under UK law and I suspect that's stricter).

To take an example. I possess a copy of The Minimanual of the Urban Guerrilla, which was written by Carlos Marighella and inspired a lot of militant groups including the RAF (Baader-Meinhof Gang), the 'RA, ETA and others. It's an interesting read and I recommend it (though it is now pretty dated) for understanding some militant revolutionary movements.

However, you couldn't say it MADE them do what they did. They used it as inspiration, but it was not the only source of inspiration. Even if it had been, the choice was theirs in the end. They decided "I'll take up the gun". Whether they were wrong or right, a book can't control their thoughts and actions.

I think the Williams would have punished poor Hana whether a book told them to or not. They're the kind of people who see a child leave a drop of menstrual blood on a toilet seat and instead of wiping it away and pretending they never saw, they embarrass and shame her. They're the kind of people who make a child stand in one spot and if she deviates from it by a foot, punish her by violence. They're the kind of people who don't think "Hmm, my new daughter from Ethiopia is having trouble, how can I help her and make sure she knows she's loved?" but "That disgusting child deserves Godly chastisement. We'll force her to eat away from us and fling her outside, as well as complaining about her at every opportunity."

This is not to defend the Pearls in the slightest. It's just I suspect the Williams were digging her grave, poor thing, before she even got there. And used the Pearls' methods as an excuse "we are doing the right thing, sweetie!" for their wickedness.

ETA - the Minimanual is actually technically a pamphlet, I think :D

[hoipolloi]

Wouldn't the Pearls have to be charged/convicted as accessories? If there were direct communications between them and the Williams pair over Hana's treatment, would that be enough to do so?

Re: exhumation. As I understand that article, they need to exhume her in order to obtain the dental & skeletal evidence to make a more precise age determination. The primary evidence would come from her dentition and the states of epiphyseal union in the skeleton, not from the adipocere ("grave wax") or other portions of the interred body. It is likely that the ME did not make such assessments from the at the time of original autopsy since, apparently, there was no question then as to how old Hana was; so this is not something lacking from the original autospy. There are standard methods of age determination using stages of dental & skeletal development so they may be able to place her age within at least a 2-year range, perhaps less. It could perhaps all be done by xray.

Re: Williams' claim that Hana was 16 or older. Probably bullshit but obviously something that the prosecution has to deal with now, hence the exhumation. May the Williams be convicted, somehow, and rot in prison for the rest of their disgusting lives.