Chaviva update

[LucySnowe]

She made aliyah and moved to Israel.

Also this article came out about her (and about conversion in general):

http://tomorrowthemag.com/articles/pros-and-converts

Her response:

http://www.kvetchingeditor.com/2012/11/bad-decisions-response.html

I do hope life in Israel works out for her; she seems to have had a rough time over the last few years.

[shedemei]

I read her blog from time to time, more so now that she's made aliyah because I like reading about people who move and reinvent themselves. But she's so freaking negative and finding fault in everything that it's really a turn-off; I expect the bitching about Israel to commence shortly.

On the article: it's a bit naive to post so much about yourself online then try to pull the "I don't tell you everything and you don't know me!" card.

[GryffindorFTW]

https://twitter.com/TheChaviva/status/2 ... 0056168448

Sigh.

[LucySnowe]

Sigh.

I'll see your sigh and raise you an eyeroll.

Ten shekels to anyone who can locate the false statement in either of the first two comments, because I sure as heck can't. Double your money if you use the phrase 'lashon hara'.

[Deleted03]

Hey Chaviva! I remember another thread where people were extremely nice about you and understanding. They thought unfair the pressure put on converts to behave just because other converts felt insecure when it would be better to criticize the system that enables such bullying mentality to emerge.

If people find you negative... it's not about it being false or not, it's about their opinions of your writings.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I hope she finds what she's looking for. I have friends who found their unique niche in Israel, and other friends who found it really hard to place their place.

I'm into people's stories, even and especially when they aren't perfect and cope with struggles in real time. I hadn't read the blog before, but I'll try to read it when I have some time.

The article on her was a bit mean, and I did catch of couple of errors, but I guess that's the nature of the beast in journalism. Writers look for angles, and try to highlight controversies and debates. As much as I enjoy reading personal stories, I know that there is a risk when anyone puts themselves out there. I wonder if 10-20 years from now, people will look back at the current internet culture and say, "wow, I can't believe what people used to share back then", in the way that my kids marvel over my tales of riding my bike around the neighborhood (sans helmet) at the age of 7, with no parent in sight, no cell phone and just an instruction to be back home for dinner. Inevitably, people will get scared into more prudent behavior, but we may lose something in the process.

[Jinger Jar]

I wonder if 10-20 years from now, people will look back at the current internet culture and say, "wow, I can't believe what people used to share back then", in the way that my kids marvel over my tales of riding my bike around the neighborhood (sans helmet) at the age of 7, with no parent in sight, no cell phone and just an instruction to be back home for dinner. Inevitably, people will get scared into more prudent behavior, but we may lose something in the process.

Back in '95 or '96 a friend of mine and her husband created a family website with GeoCities. There were pictures of everyone listed next to their full name and birth date (Catherine Marie Smith, born December 1, 1962, James Lincoln Smith, born October 22, 1988, etc.). They gave out their complete address along with a picture of the font of their house. They put up a copy of the floor plan of their home. They listed their employers' names and contact information. There were links to their CVs, which of course had their educational and employment histories on them.They divulged the names of their children's schools. And they even took pictures of every room of their home that highlighted various antiques, collectibles, and family heirlooms they'd acquired, the kind of pictures you have for insurance purposes.

They were so damned proud of that site. I remember going through it and thinking that it was a kidnapper's, burglar's, identify thief's, or serial killer's dream come true. And although these were otherwise intelligent people with post graduate degrees, it never occurred to them that they were quite literally opening up their financial lives and personal safety to the world. A couple of us warned them of this, but we were poo-pooed as being paranoid. They just couldn't see it; it was like they didn't understand that the world wide web quite literally means world wide web, not just our-friends-who-mean-us-no-harm wide web. And then they got an email from some stranger in another country, who basically told them what we'd been saying for months. After that, they wisely took down or changed about half of their site. :lol:

[Lostie]

Chaviva was invited on twitter to FJ to do a Q&A. If this happens I will be (in the words of Karen Brewer of the Baby Sitters Club which I have been reading way too much for my age :P) gigundoly pleased.

[pomology]

What ever happened to her goyish boyfriend?

It's not that I disapprove. I'm just curious.

[mystikchick17]

What ever happened to her goyish boyfriend?

It's not that I disapprove. I'm just curious.

They broke up - she realized that she was not in a good place emotionally to be dating someone yet, and she called him by her ex's name a few times in a week or something, if memory serves. In the article it says his lack of ambition was also a deal-breaker.

Her ex remarried within a week of their divorce being finalized (whether it was their get or their civil one, I have zero idea) and his new wife is apparently pregnant.

The article was poorly constructed, at least to me. There's so much richness to Chaviva's entire conversion process that got glossed over, and I found Bethany's tone really smug. Like Chaviva got what she deserved, getting scorn heaped upon her for publicly breaking the rules. Then again, she comes across as smug on her Facebook page as well, so that's hardly surprising (when talking about us damn liberals). I don't really get what the point of interviewing other converts in a piece about one particular convert's journey was, either.

The saddest part was reading that her relationship apparently caused her split with a woman who was her best friend. I read her blog and she comes across as a lovely, friendly, sensible religious woman, and she posted the note Chaviva wrote her on the eve of getting married thanking her for all her love and support. They seemed to have a wonderful friendship, and I imagine the loss of it on top of everything else was deeply hurtful.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Back in '95 or '96 a friend of mine and her husband created a family website with GeoCities. There were pictures of everyone listed next to their full name and birth date (Catherine Marie Smith, born December 1, 1962, James Lincoln Smith, born October 22, 1988, etc.). They gave out their complete address along with a picture of the font of their house. They put up a copy of the floor plan of their home. They listed their employers' names and contact information. There were links to their CVs, which of course had their educational and employment histories on them.They divulged the names of their children's schools. And they even took pictures of every room of their home that highlighted various antiques, collectibles, and family heirlooms they'd acquired, the kind of pictures you have for insurance purposes.

They were so damned proud of that site. I remember going through it and thinking that it was a kidnapper's, burglar's, identify thief's, or serial killer's dream come true. And although these were otherwise intelligent people with post graduate degrees, it never occurred to them that they were quite literally opening up their financial lives and personal safety to the world. A couple of us warned them of this, but we were poo-pooed as being paranoid. They just couldn't see it; it was like they didn't understand that the world wide web quite literally means world wide web, not just our-friends-who-mean-us-no-harm wide web. And then they got an email from some stranger in another country, who basically told them what we'd been saying for months. After that, they wisely took down or changed about half of their site. :lol:

I was a bit taken aback when I googled my name and discovered a distant relative had our names on a family tree that was made public. Guess why I don't use "mother's maiden name" as my security question? Fortunately, I'm not the only person in North America with my name.

[Deleted03]

I was a bit taken aback when I googled my name and discovered a distant relative had our names on a family tree that was made public. Guess why I don't use "mother's maiden name" as my security question? Fortunately, I'm not the only person in North America with my name.

I hate those security questions that are also used in government programs. I remember going through those questions: Mother's maiden name - same as mine. Father's last name - don't have a father. hummm let's see, uh grand mother's maiden name?

Let's get into the 21st century, thank you!

[pomology]

I hate those security questions that are also used in government programs. I remember going through those questions: Mother's maiden name - same as mine. Father's last name - don't have a father. hummm let's see, uh grand mother's maiden name?

Let's get into the 21st century, thank you!

Yeah. My mother's maiden name is still her name thank you very much and it's part of my hyphenated last name. I also like when they give me the choice of my mother's middle name or my father's middle name. Um, neither of them have one.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I like choosing my own security question, but notice people fall for these Facebook quizzes that are designed to get personal information - around the time of the Royal Wedding, there was one about determining your "Royal name" by using name of the street where you grew up and the name of your first pet. All common bank security questions.

[Deleted03]

I like choosing my own security question, but notice people fall for these Facebook quizzes that are designed to get personal information - around the time of the Royal Wedding, there was one about determining your "Royal name" by using name of the street where you grew up and the name of your first pet. All common bank security questions.

ah I never saw it like that! I never filled those anyway, but good to know!

[Dinorah]

I hope Chaviva will be happy in Israel. But I've the impression, from her blog, that she seems to rush into things and try to solve problems by moving. Of course I don't know what goes into her mind, but her marriage, divorce, move to Colorado, decision to make alyah are somewhat abrupt. I also remember that in the now private archives she mentioned not seeing herself living in Israel, for many reasons.

But I do hope I'm wrong and this is really what she's meant to be. Israel's a pretty cool place, though not one where I'd live myself, at least not more for a year or so (because I'm not Jewish, for one thing).

[Sobeknofret]

She seems terribly confused and at odds with what she really believes and what she thinks she ought to believe. I wish her peace and joy.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I hope Chaviva will be happy in Israel. But I've the impression, from her blog, that she seems to rush into things and try to solve problems by moving. Of course I don't know what goes into her mind, but her marriage, divorce, move to Colorado, decision to make alyah are somewhat abrupt. I also remember that in the now private archives she mentioned not seeing herself living in Israel, for many reasons.

But I do hope I'm wrong and this is really what she's meant to be. Israel's a pretty cool place, though not one where I'd live myself, at least not more for a year or so (because I'm not Jewish, for one thing).

Israel can be really intense. It's a place where questions of spirituality and identity and politics matters, deeply, in a way that they don't necessarily have to matter in North America. In the rest of the world, Jews are a minority, so there is a sort of natural bonding that can take place among members of the community, and there is also an understanding that religious issues are private, not public. In Israel, identifying simply as a Jew doesn't mean much, so people tend to be identified by their country of origin or particular spot on the religious/political spectrum. Some Jews who never really found their niche here love it there - the sheer variety may mean that they can find the exact community that speaks to them. Others can't find their place - they can't cope with all the divisions, don't fit neatly into any box and they always feel like an outsider.

[shedemei]

Wow. I don't think my own personal opinion of a blogger's writing has ever been tweeted about before! Neat!

[GryffindorFTW]

She's engaged:

https://www.facebook.com/Kvetchingedito ... ed_comment

[Jinger Jar]

Didn't she divorce not too long ago?

[mystikchick17]

Didn't she divorce not too long ago?

She did, but the Orthodox world can move very, very quickly when it comes to dating/marriage, and I guess, remarriage. I wish her the best.

[LucySnowe]

Another Saw You at Sinai success story. And I thought it couldn't be done. Who was I fooling?!

Just like aliyah, this was the smoothest, calmest, most meant-to-be thing that's ever happened to me.

Wow. Okay. Just over two months from aliyah to engagement.

[Dysfundamental]

I hope this works out better for her than it did for my college friend who did similarly. Said friend was a professional, financially comfortable, married a terrible guy who took her for most of her net worth in the divorce and doesn't pay a shekel of child support for their kids.

[Vex]

I like choosing my own security question, but notice people fall for these Facebook quizzes that are designed to get personal information - around the time of the Royal Wedding, there was one about determining your "Royal name" by using name of the street where you grew up and the name of your first pet. All common bank security questions.

I don't know about your ROYAL name, but that's traditionally been the way to work out your PORN name for ages.

People have been pretty positive about Chaviva, I don't know what she's bitching about. Saying she's negative (I happen to agree with that, it's part of why I stopped reading her blog) is a matter of opinion, and if she's openly publishing a personal blog then readers are 100% entitled to have them and to share them with other readers. Suck it up or make it private for ass-kissers only.