The Country Handmaiden on chivalry

[dairyfreelife]

Today I am disgusted at a large percentage of young ladies in this society.

So many swoony girls complain that there is a lack of noble, courageous, chivalrous, and honorable young men in our society. They say that the boys around them aren't the dashing knights they would want to marry one day.

Well, girls, I've got some news.

It's your own fault.

what young man wouldn't feel that manly spirit of chivalry well up inside him when he saw a lovely young lady in a long, modest dress, with her hair swept back, a baby on one arm, and a heavy bag in the other, trying to open a door for herself? I can't think of any that wouldn't. At least, not any self-respectable young man.

And men have pride, and they don't appreciate being embarrassed, so they will avoid these situations altogether. They become woman's equal, and sometimes even her lesser.

Isn't pride a sin?

thecountryhandmaiden.blogspot.com/2012/06/on-chivalry-and-certain-young-women-of.html

[Fargood]

This is so fundie-annoying. Of course it's the woman's fault. It's *always* the woman's fault in fundie-land.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think if a man would only open doors and stuff for women because he likes the way they dress, he isnt a true gentleman.

I think some of these people are just setting the bar too high, not because they arent modest enough, but because they have an idealised version of what kind of perfect man they want to marry, but that kind of man isnt real, as nobody is perfect.

I would probably open a door for someone who was carrying a baby and a heavy bag though...or anyone who was carrying loads of things at the same time, or even just if there was someone walking a few steps behind me.

[Deleted05]

This is a new one. She's Catholic, but barely mentions it; in every other respect she looks like any other generic fundie daughter. Have any of you ever seen a Catholic SAHD before?

[Cannelle]

what young man wouldn't feel that manly spirit of chivalry well up inside him when he saw a lovely young lady in a long, modest dress, with her hair swept back, a baby on one arm, and a heavy bag in the other, trying to open a door for herself? I can't think of any that wouldn't. At least, not any self-respectable young man.

I wish this guy had any idea how many times I had the door dropped on me when I was pregnant, and how many women I've jumped up to get the door for because she was struggling with her bags and a baby in a stroller (and sometimes another older kid who wasn't capable of getting the door for mom). And you know what, you fucking dickface, I've helped dads who were struggling with strollers too, because I'm not a "Oh, only help the poor helpless little woman" douchebag. I help PEOPLE, and I don't give a shit what they're wearing or how their hair is styled. If they're alive, that's all it takes for them to be worthy of my help. Fuck you, jackass.

[Knight of Ni]

And here I was thinking that you should open the door for someone who had their arms full or anyone who happens to be behind you because it's the polite courteous thing to do. Glad she set me straight on that. I guess I can go to letting doors slam in men's faces now.

[snarkbillie]

I wish this guy had any idea how many times I had the door dropped on me when I was pregnant, and how many women I've jumped up to get the door for because she was struggling with her bags and a baby in a stroller (and sometimes another older kid who wasn't capable of getting the door for mom). And you know what, you fucking dickface, I've helped dads who were struggling with strollers too, because I'm not a "Oh, only help the poor helpless little woman" douchebag. I help PEOPLE, and I don't give a shit what they're wearing or how their hair is styled. If they're alive, that's all it takes for them to be worthy of my help. Fuck you, jackass.

I've been on crutches before and been a few steps behind someone and they let the door slam on me. I have no idea why they think that's acceptable. If someone is just a few seconds behind me I always try to catch the door for them, no matter what gender they are but especially if they are carrying something, on crutches, holding a child, etc.

[doggie]

that dashing knight would be as likely to rape her then help her. The whole rescued by a knight thing is such a joke and ignorant it is amazing. look at me waiting for prince charming. so nothing like thinking a fairy tale is real.

[Kitten]

A young man is walking along, when he sees a young woman standing there by a pickup, yanking the back of the bed down, and reaching in to grab some bags of animal feed...."Do you need any help? I can take those for you..." he begins, stepping forward.

"Naw, I'm fine!" she says, slamming the back shut, "These are no problem..." She turns on her heel and starts walking off in long, confident strides, then shouts back after a few moments, "THANKS ANYHOW!...Eventually this young man is led to believe that these girls don't need any help, his help would be nothing to them because he obviously isn't any stronger than they are, not to mention they aren't interested in his help anyways.

Well, if he's anything like the young men who flock around my strong, athletic, attractive, self-confident daughter, he's thinking "Wow! THAT is one fine woman! I would love to know her better. Anyone who can haul bags of feed like that could keep up with me in all the athletic activities I like to do, like hiking and camping and playing sports. And she loves animals!"

And oh yeah, my daughter AND my son were raised to offer help when it looks like it's needed, whether or not the person accepts, and without feeling like a rejection means they are utterly worthless people who should just curl up and die because they didn't have the opportunity to display their amazingness. :roll:

[nokoanna]

There's a certain Margaret Atwoodish delight to the fact that she calls herself a handmaiden. Yes, I know it's in the Bible as well, but still....

[Fargood]

I've about had it with these Fundie crazies. They claim liberals are the ones who try to idealize everything? Try living with one of these crazy bitches who thinks that if the wife dresses up and plays house long enough then her loathesome husband will turn him into Prince Charming.

[sparkles]

Why does gender have to enter into the common-courtesy equation?

I'm a late-middle-aged woman but if I'm ahead of someone, ANYone, I'll hold the door even if it means waiting a bit. If I see someone, ANYone in need of a seat, I'll give up mine. If I see someone, ANYone who needs assistance will something, I'll offer it up. I do it because it's the right and kind thing to do and I expect that anyone who does the same for me, does so for the same reasons. Not because of some antiquated idea of chivalry or any other vapid, fairy tale-ish reason. Because it's the right and kind thing to do. Sometimes we accept the help, sometimes we don't and neither is wrong.

Do I really need to slow down to allow a man to hold the door for me or accept his offer of help when I'm perfectly capable of handling the situation myself just so I avoid hurting his witto manly feelings? Does acting like a helpless twit really make me more of a woman? Give me a fucking break.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Ok, stop me when I sound too much like a broken record but....

What's the deal with making such as huge deal about opening doors and assuming that women must be far too weak for it, but at the same time having no issue with women having tons of kids?

Guess what? Being pregnant and caring for small children is WORK. Real, physical work. When my kids were younger, I felt like that mythical woman with the pickup truck every time I wrestled kids into car seats, folded up double strollers and put them in the back of the van and loaded the rest of the groceries. I felt like that when I was pregnant with #3, and carrying both #1 and #2 in order to keep them under control. I felt like that when I was pregnant - and even wearing a long dress - and installing car seats, pulling as hard as I could on the belts while putting all my weight on the seat to ensure that it was truly immobile. I felt like that every time I picked up my roly-poly baby in the car seat, since it weighed a ton.

Secondly, why are we assuming that men are complete idiots? The entire argument boils down to "we all have to pretend to be completely helpless, so that if one of us ever really needs help, we'll get it."

What about simply teaching everyone to show basic courtesy, and help out others as needed? Is that really so hard?

[Jinger Jar]

This is a new one. She's Catholic, but barely mentions it; in every other respect she looks like any other generic fundie daughter. Have any of you ever seen a Catholic SAHD before?

Indeed, online. They're generally converts from fundie sects and come off like they're more Catholic than the pope. But more modest, of course. They glom on to the writings and thinking of men like St. Josemaria Escriva, Padre Pio and Benedict XV and use what these and other Victorians said as a way to extend their evangelical/fundie worldview into 2012 Catholicism.

And yes, they can be absolutely insufferable.

[shesinsane]

Ok, stop me when I sound too much like a broken record but....

What's the deal with making such as huge deal about opening doors and assuming that women must be far too weak for it, but at the same time having no issue with women having tons of kids?

Guess what? Being pregnant and caring for small children is WORK. Real, physical work. When my kids were younger, I felt like that mythical woman with the pickup truck every time I wrestled kids into car seats, folded up double strollers and put them in the back of the van and loaded the rest of the groceries. I felt like that when I was pregnant with #3, and carrying both #1 and #2 in order to keep them under control. I felt like that when I was pregnant - and even wearing a long dress - and installing car seats, pulling as hard as I could on the belts while putting all my weight on the seat to ensure that it was truly immobile. I felt like that every time I picked up my roly-poly baby in the car seat, since it weighed a ton.

Secondly, why are we assuming that men are complete idiots? The entire argument boils down to "we all have to pretend to be completely helpless, so that if one of us ever really needs help, we'll get it."

What about simply teaching everyone to show basic courtesy, and help out others as needed? Is that really so hard?

That won't work, you might help a Democrat, Jew, gay woman, or some other minority fundies don't approve of. If you only help women that dress modestly and look weak and helpless, you'll end helping fundie gals (and maybe an abused woman) most of the time. ;)

[2xx1xy1JD]

That won't work, you might help a Democrat, Jew, gay woman, or some other minority fundies don't approve of. If you only help women that dress modestly and look weak and helpless, you'll end helping fundie gals (and maybe an abused woman) most of the time. ;)

Of course. Maybe that's why the reference is to chivalry, instead of basic courtesy and human decency. Chivalry is associated with knights, and by extension with the Crusades and religious warfare. "Chivalrous" knights somehow didn't have a problem massacring Jews and Muslims.

[Sobeknofret]

Of course. Maybe that's why the reference is to chivalry, instead of basic courtesy and human decency. Chivalry is associated with knights, and by extension with the Crusades and religious warfare. "Chivalrous" knights somehow didn't have a problem massacring Jews and Muslims.

Or raping women of lower social status, or killing indiscriminately, or being general menaces to the population at large during peace and war.

[linnea27]

What I got from that is that gentlemen like single mothers. Why else would you be looking for gentlemen if you were married to the father of the baby you are carrying?

[JesusFightClub]

WTF.

I can't think of any that wouldn't. At least, not any self-respectable young man.

Or "self-respecting", which is what it is called in the English language. You may have heard of it.

Now, whether they go ahead, step forward, and help her or not depends on how nice a man they are, how kind, charitable, and in-tune to the needs of others they are. But nonetheless, that spirit of protection and care is implanted in the spirit of all men and boys. They are born with it.

Um, evidently not if they're examining a woman's hair, childbearing abilities and dress as clues to whether they should help her or not bother.

Eventually this young man is led to believe that these girls don't need any help, his help would be nothing to them because he obviously isn't any stronger than they are,

Yeah, that's their fault. They should not be strong, just like...working class women have never been in case they offend men. OH NO I FELL INTO AHISTORICAL WORLD

Oh, and you also have to watch it, because girls like this can be a total tomboy one moment, and the next turn into a terrible flirt. Strange, but true. And believe me, I am talking from personal experience.

Have you had extensive lesbian sexy tiem? Nowt wrong with that, but it doesn't really fit with your image.

[swissbeauty]

They're so disgusting. It's never your fault for someone else's poor actions. People make CHOICES. That's part of being an adult.

[desertvixen]

Ok, stop me when I sound too much like a broken record but....

What's the deal with making such as huge deal about opening doors and assuming that women must be far too weak for it, but at the same time having no issue with women having tons of kids?

Guess what? Being pregnant and caring for small children is WORK. Real, physical work. When my kids were younger, I felt like that mythical woman with the pickup truck every time I wrestled kids into car seats, folded up double strollers and put them in the back of the van and loaded the rest of the groceries. I felt like that when I was pregnant with #3, and carrying both #1 and #2 in order to keep them under control. I felt like that when I was pregnant - and even wearing a long dress - and installing car seats, pulling as hard as I could on the belts while putting all my weight on the seat to ensure that it was truly immobile. I felt like that every time I picked up my roly-poly baby in the car seat, since it weighed a ton.

Secondly, why are we assuming that men are complete idiots? The entire argument boils down to "we all have to pretend to be completely helpless, so that if one of us ever really needs help, we'll get it."

What about simply teaching everyone to show basic courtesy, and help out others as needed? Is that really so hard?

She did post your comment, though. Not surprised to see it came from FJ.

QFT.

[desertvixen]

Explored some more on the blog. I like the doll outfits, but I hate to break it to this girl - she's no Anne Shirley (or Laura Ingalls Wilder, who she also has quoted on the sidebar).

Plus the music is super annoying.

[slickcat79]

What I got from that is that gentlemen like single mothers. Why else would you be looking for gentlemen if you were married to the father of the baby you are carrying?

Considering the world of SAHDhood, the baby is just as likely to be a sibling :?

I wish fundie maidens would quit idolizing this warped idea of "chivalry" in men. It doesn't take much to effect a veneer of gentlemanly behavior in public, but that really tells you fuck-all about the guy's actual personality. There's way more to building a life together than pulling out chairs and opening doors.

[debrand]

Maybe I am too tired but her post really, really annoyed me. I can't post on her site for some reason. I will try again tomorrow. This is what I was going to say.

I have very short hair and wear jeans. Both men and women open doors for me and I like to do the same for other people. Being polite shouldn't depend on what a person wears or if they fit a gender mold.

" young man is walking along, when he sees a young woman standing there by a pickup, yanking the back of the bed down, and reaching in to grab some bags of animal feed. This young woman (for a young woman she is, but I'm not calling her a young lady) is wearing jeans, a tee shirt, sneakers, and a baseball cap with her ponytail sticking out the back of it."

You make a lot of generalizations about people based on their clothing choices. I was taught that a lady is someone who is polite and cares about others. Whether or not they load their own feed into their pick up trucks had nothing to do with their manners. My grandmother wouldn't have fit your narrow model of feminity. Like many rural women of her generation, she was tough and strong. However, she was also kind, honest and would have helped anyone. I'm very lucky to have had her as a role model

I was never taught to that I should pretend to be weak in order to win a man. The men that I knew would have been highly offended if I acted weak on purpose. They would have also been offended, and who can blame them, that someone thought their egos were so easily bruised. They appreciated strong women because they were strong men.

You do realize that deciding that a woman is not a lady based on the fact that she wears jeans and can load her own feed is passive aggressive cattiness.

[MamaJunebug]

The Country Whatever wrote,

what young man wouldn't feel that manly spirit of chivalry well up inside him when he saw a lovely young lady in a long, modest dress, with her hair swept back, a baby on one arm, and a heavy bag in the other, trying to open a door for herself? I can't think of any that wouldn't. At least, not any self-respectable young man.

and I want to ask her, "What is that skirted, long-haired helpmeet and mother-to-rival-the-Blessed-Virgin-Herself doing out in public without her headship? Huh? She actually purchased a heavy bag full of stuff by herself? HUH? Sounds like a hussy waiting to happen, missy! How dare you suggest such a thing occurs in your perfect, smug world?!"

Reminds me of when handicapped parking spots first began to be designated. I don't think people had thought to have handicapped hangtags on the rearview mirrors at the time. One man got yelled at for parking there - lucky for the self-righteous critic that the harangue didn't stress the heart patient into some kind of cardiac event!

Like debrand, I hold the door for anybody if I can. The Clunky Handmaiden would be amazed, I'm sure, at the number of toothless 20-somethings with Skoal in their hip pockets who say, "Thanks, ma'am," and then I glimpse them doing the same for a ratty-looking lady wearing shorts and a halter who is pleasantly surprised by the favor they pass along.

It's too late at night for me to visit the Cranky Handjobber. I'd probably brew up a half pot of coffee and go after the sycophants who complimented her on her wizzdumb.