Reasonable prolife person

[samithemage]

A friend of my mom wrote and posted this on her facebook recently. She's definitely prolife and I don't agree with everything she says, in fact I disagree with several things, but she's the most reasonable prolife person I've ever heard from on the issue. She wants to try to solve societal problems rather than slut shame and wants to keep the laws of the nation prochoice. I only wish more prolife people were so logical.

I received a letter from someone titled, "pro-abortion at _______________. " They were passing on a letter asking if I knew a fellow Catholic who they were labeling as "pro-abortion." this is and edited version of my response.

Making Abortion a Non-Choice:

Dear ______

I do not know ____________personally, except as an acquaintance on Facebook.

It is possible to have a pro-life stance and still support the reproductive rights of an individual. I, for one, am very pro-life. I also think there are better ways to make abortion a "non-choice" than having any government entity mandate personal choices. China does this and remember, that they force couples to kill their babies because the government wants to limit the size of their population. Our constitution protects our individual rights. No government agency has the authority to force a person to pro-create or to not. It is our personal choice which is between us, our partners (sacramental in our case) and our God.

While I share everyone's concern and passion for stopping the murder of the innocent, I do not think that limiting the personal choices or liberties of anyone will stop the practice. Women who find themselves in hopeless situations, like poverty or (biblical times) infidelity, have always and will always seek a resolution to a seemingling hopeless situation. This has been going on since the dawn of human kind.

As an academic and a scientist, I am a problem solver who follows a process of logic and reason. I have the added gift of also believing in what I cannot measure and quantify. My relationship with God is a divine gift and I treasure it and the Holy Catholic Church. I also believe that each life is sacred and ordained by God, from conception to the grave.

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I propose the following solutions to a "societal" problem for those of us who believe that life begins at the moment of conception and that each life is ordained by God, has dignity and must be protected.

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1) Stop politicizing the issue! We have a separation of church and state and the same constitution which preserves our right to speak out against the holocaust of abortion, also protects our personal right to practice our religion openly and freely in this society. That same constitution protects us from any government agency dictating or regulating our personal reproductive choices. They may not limit our family sizes, tell us to use birth control or force us to have abortions against our will. That door of regulation swings both ways and I for one like having the freedom to choose to NOT use birth control and to be able to have as many babies as God is able to grant in my life.

· The right wing of the political parties in America is not pro-life. They are bought and paid for by corporations, who have only one agenda, power and wealth.

· Extremism alienates people of good faith and the pro-life movement has been absorbed into something that Jesus would not recognize. It is hate filled and mean spirited. People like myself have stopped supporting the "Right to Life" organizations because of the extremism, hate and negative politicization of the entire issue.

· The sins of 1) bearing false witness, 2) character assassination 3) hate that comes from the deep desire to protect and save the unborn and 4) taking of life itself through extremism...does not bring glory to God or to the unborn.

2) Model nothing but God's love when speaking on behalf of the unborn. Too many times, we elevate ourselves to God's level and we pass judgement on others. Just as ___________ and others are doing with the email sent around entitled, "Pro-abortion from _________." How do such accusations bring glory to God? Attacking fellow Catholics?

A. We insult and attack people by labeling them...

"Pro-abortion," just because they support the constitutional protections of a person's reproductive rights.

"Bad Catholics," If a fellow Catholic is able to form their conscience based on the good of all, rather than the good of a theocratic few, and if they don't condemn ALL birth control and all choices that do not lead to life, you judge them to be bad Catholics?

"Pro-abortion Candidates," Our elected officials take an oath to uphold the constitution of the United States. Is it truly reasonable to ask them to only vote based on their own churches teachings in a diverse society of sinners of all religions?

B. We bear false witness and engage in character assassination of those who are open to finding solutions, which include any compromise for those of other opinions or religious viewpoints. Jesus would not pass on lies and misinformation to bolster a political position.

C. Stop Bullying! We all too often are seen as judgemental, self-righteous bullies, who must have it all our way or no way at all. Bullying will not convert hearts and change minds. All it does is render the voices of those battling, out of love for the unborn, to be reduced to background noise...we become as banging gongs and clashing cymbals.

3) Attack Poverty on all fronts by

supporting government and church agencies that render aid to women and families in poverty. Don't alienate agencies simply because they offer legal options to poor women or their politics don't match yours...like Planned Parenthood. Instead work with them to help find resources for women who are making a choice.

Many of us already do this. If we offer extra assistance and support to women who choose life, then we will be making an impact on those who do not. We must go out of our way to make life a viable choice, not go out of our way to limit their choices for them.

supporting government programs meant to give assistance and education to the poor, especially single women with children (the one's most likely to seek an abortion) . Don't alienate programs because they are not exclusive of the things you are fighting against. Universal health care, where pre-natal care is free or at least affordable, is a necessity for the woman alone with small chidlren. Planned Parenthood actually serves the women who choose life too. Abortion services are only a small percentage of what they offer. Is this horrific!? You bet it is! Can we change a woman's legal decision to end a pregnancy through hateful rhetoric or the taking life giving services away? We are powerless against global poverty, but we are not powerless in our christian call to love the sinner and to render support to those who are suffering.

4) Be a part of the education and empowerment of Women: Accept that a government agency must teach about birth control, yet lobby and even recommend reasonable insertion of the best and most logical solution (abstinence). Encourage education which includes discussion of "responsibility" of choices. Don't alienate these programs because they include teaching about things that are against our moral teachings as Catholics...against God's laws. It is counterproductive and limits our overall ability to engage others in a dialogue that could lead to a change of hearts and minds.

5) Continue to Pray...Prayer is our greatest and most efficient weapon. Look what happened in Fayetteville with the abortion clinic there. We all prayed long and hard, but it was God who put an end to that holocaust.

I realize that everything I am saying flys in the face of what we have all been taught to do as Pro-Life advocates, but as someone who

has been in a situation where I had to choose and then lived the poverty of making a choice of life

continues to pray for the unborn daily and for the conversion of all hearts regarding the life and dignity of the unborn

is a scientist and logical thinker...

I can tell you with great certainty that the attempts to change hearts, minds and laws, by engaging in the process of political manipulation and persuasion, has rendered our mission impotent, as it has become part of the sinful nature of the process. I see good, God fearing, wonderful, well intentioned people advocating hate and engaging in the propagation of lies and misinformation....becoming part of the problem...as they become part of an extremist obsession, which is anything but Christian, anything but loving, anything but good. We become just like the ones we loathe. We become obsessive, hateful, sinful and separated from God in the process.

I can also tell you that God is the one who will judge us all in the end. We must stand for the unborn, but do it in a way that brings glory to God and allows us to share Christ's love with others. Alienation is not the answer. Hating is not the answer. Modeling the love and mercy of God is the answer.

With great love and affection for all of my pro-life sisters and brothers,

[formergothardite]

If she thinks women should have the option to have an abortion then she is pro-choice. If she is anti-choice, then she isn't really that reasonable.

I hate the term pro-life for people who are actually anti-choice.

ETA: It seems like she is a pro-choice person who is just really religious.

[luckystone]

I don't think that's reasonable at all. It's full of religious garbage, I couldn't bear to read it. And she thinks she's scientific and logical?! Please.

And yes, even if she's against abortion, she is pro-choice if she wants it to still be a choice.

Plenty of pro-choice people don't like abortion, would never get one, and think we should minimise their occurrence by having available birth control and education.

[sparkles]

If she thinks women should have the option to have an abortion then she is pro-choice. If she is anti-choice, then she isn't really that reasonable.

I hate the term pro-life for people who are actually anti-choice.

ETA: It seems like she is a pro-choice person who is just really religious.

This.

Anti-choice still isn't accurate enough for me. Anti-reproductive freedom is more like it.

[sassycupcake]

Nope. Anyone who refers to abortion as a "holocaust" is not reasonable, regardless of whether they are actually an ignorant pro-choicer (which your mother is if she supports keeping abortion legal) or not.

Appropriating the systematic persecution, imprisonment, rape, torture, and murder of millions of individuals to express your distaste with a medical procedure is never reasonable or Christ-like.

[ElphabaGalinda]

If she thinks women should have the option to have an abortion then she is pro-choice. If she is anti-choice, then she isn't really that reasonable.

I hate the term pro-life for people who are actually anti-choice.

ETA: It seems like she is a pro-choice person who is just really religious.

I agree that she is actually pro-choice. She seems to support keeping abortion legal and not restricting it legally, so she is pro choice. She may never choose an abortion for herself, and they abortions are a sin, but if she thinks women should have the right to make their own choices, she is pro choice. It is impossible for people to be both anti-choice and reasonable. It is never reasonable to try to control what other people do with their bodies. It is never reasonable to limit reproductive rights. A reasonable anti-choice person is like an oxymoron.

Calling abortion a holocaust is very unreasonable, and offensive.

[Minerva]

Normally "reasonable pro-life people" end up being pro-choicers who just wouldn't have an abortion themselves. This one seems rabidly anti-abortion for everyone, but realistic about the extent to which the anti-abortion movement can stop abortions from happening and seeing through the right-wing bullshit that usually comes attached to anti-abortion rhetoric (defunding health services unrelated to abortion, for instance). I'm not 100% clear on whether she thinks it should remain legal, but she talks about constitutionally protected reproductive rights and how the door of not having the government force you to do things swings both ways. The fact that she thinks a clinic closing is a good thing contradicts her statement that limiting the practice of abortion won't stop people from having them, so she loses a reasonable point there. But she gets a point for acknowledging that her conviction that abortion is murder is a religious one and hinting at the right to choose being a matter of freedom of/from religion.

I don't personally think believing that fetuses are people and that abortion is comparable to the holocaust is even remotely reasonable, but I can't call her unreasonable since she acknowledges that it is a religious conviction that she cannot impose on others. Is she offensive? Hell yes. I think it's an insult to babies to call fetuses babies, and I think it's an insult to the victims of the holocaust and of genocide to compare their suffering and deaths to the death of something that isn't aware of its own existence. But then again she probably considers my position offensive. That's how free speech works.

[linnea27]

I heard a Catholic priest speak in an abortion debate held on some talk radio station while I was on a roadtrip. The priest, surprisingly, was on the pro-choice side, and said he had to be pro-choice in today's society. He said that while he felt that a fetus was a baby, at the same time, he felt that our society was so sick that it had created an environment where some women feel forced to abort their children. He said that if we see children as blessings, we would welcome ALL children with open arms, and until we love and accept and provide for the children born to teen moms and those living in poverty, etc, he was pro-choice.

He also said that god could have chosen to have a married woman birth Jesus, but he chose to use an unwed mother as a message to us that all children should be loved and prized, not just children born to affluent, white, married couples, and the Christian faith is doing a horrible job of sharing that message. He said that every Christian alive today would trip over themselves to support Jesus and Mary financially and emotionally but few step forward to help poor, single-parent families today. He expressed his point better than I am here, and I found him fascinating to listen to.

[DarkAnts]

I have a friend who is anti abortion. But, she thinks that the option should be available for those who want/ need it. She also thinks that contraception is key in limiting the number of abortions.

Edit to add

I am pro-choice. I have not been in a situation where I needed to make a decision of this nature yet. At this point, I dont think that I would have an abortion; but, I want all of the options available so I can make an informed decision.

[emmiedahl]

I have found that these reasonable pro-life people are less toxic because you can come to a place where you are working toward the same goal. I think it is important to stress certain points to anti-choicers.

1. Making abortion illegal does not stop it. Offering free contraceptives, good sex ed at an early age, and a vast network of social services stops it. This can be easily proven to their satisfaction with a short google session.

2. If their problem with abortion is religious, they should pray about it. I think this is a good approach. Seriously, their prayers are worth less than nothing to me but it makes them feel better, so whatever. That Fayetteville clinic did not close due to prayers but if their belief in the power of prayer kept them from bombing it, then we all win.

3. There are many ways to be pro-life. I have some things in common with truly pro-life people, the kind of pro-life people you usually find in Catholicism. I am against most wars, against execution and maltreatment of prisoners, against immigration policies that create human misery, etc. I am against miserable childhoods with no hope of a bright future.

Honestly, if you do not want to take away my rights, then be as pro-life as you want. We all have opinions.

[Sola]

You can be pro-life with yourself and be pro-choice for everyone else. That's what this lady seems to be to me. If you yourself would not have an abortion but you recognise that nobody has the right to decide for someone else, that's pro-choice.

[ElphabaGalinda]

I have a friend who is anti abortion. But, she thinks that the option should be available for those who want/ need it. She also thinks that contraception is key in limiting the number of abortions.

Edit to add

I am pro-choice. I have not been in a situation where I needed to make a decision of this nature yet. At this point, I dont think that I would have an abortion; but, I want all of the options available so I can make an informed decision.

Your friend is pro-choice because she thinks the choice should be available to women. That's what being pro choice means. Would I ever have an abortion? I don't know, and since i'll never have consensual sex with a man, that makes it less likely that that's a decision i'll have to make. But the whole definition of pro-choice is thinking women should make their own choices, whatever that choice may be. What you would personally do has nothing to do with it.

[Witsec7]

I heard a Catholic priest speak in an abortion debate held on some talk radio station while I was on a roadtrip. The priest, surprisingly, was on the pro-choice side, and said he had to be pro-choice in today's society. He said that while he felt that a fetus was a baby, at the same time, he felt that our society was so sick that it had created an environment where some women feel forced to abort their children. He said that if we see children as blessings, we would welcome ALL children with open arms, and until we love and accept and provide for the children born to teen moms and those living in poverty, etc, he was pro-choice.

He also said that god could have chosen to have a married woman birth Jesus, but he chose to use an unwed mother as a message to us that all children should be loved and prized, not just children born to affluent, white, married couples, and the Christian faith is doing a horrible job of sharing that message. He said that every Christian alive today would trip over themselves to support Jesus and Mary financially and emotionally but few step forward to help poor, single-parent families today. He expressed his point better than I am here, and I found him fascinating to listen to.

Well that all sounds like a pile of religious bullshit from a celibate male who is going to sit on the bench for the rest of his life. Fact is he's just making up this crap as he goes, and no the RCC would be sending him off for an attitude adjustment with regards to his 'pro choice' views.

[Guest Anonymous]

I am slightly annoyed at the 'I'm pro-life... but' camp. Truthfully, these people are pro-choice. By calling themselves 'pro-life' they are giving that whole movement way too much credit and credibility. They make it seem as if the pro-choice folk love abortion, and want people to have abortions all the time. Saying that you don't want any woman to be in a position where she needs an abortion, but you want her to have the legal right to have an abortion, is pro-choice. Own it.

Random additional information:

I am pro-choice. I used to be one of those women who said: 'I support abortion rights, but I would never have one for myself.' Then I was raped. A few weeks later, I was pissing into a cup at a sexual health clinic and all I could think was 'Yep, I am having an abortion. It's done, it's settled. That disgusting man is not having a part of me.' (Thankfully, I was not pregnant).

Edited: Wording