AFA fear mongers and lies about anti-bullying program

[dawn9476]

AFA fear mongered and lied about a "Mix it up at Lunch Day" anti-bullying campaign taking place on 10/30 that is being used to teach kids not to bully. Because of their lies and fear mongering, they got 200 scalps. They are also telling parents to keep their kids home from school that day. :(

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/15/us/se ... d=tw-share

[MarthaMarcyMayMarlen]

It's sad that the afa is doing this. They are punishing children who could benefit from this day. This would have been great when I was in school.

[SpeakNow]

That's absurd

[doggie]

AFA (Almighty fucking assholes) just another christian hate group. Of course they don't want Christians bullied but they teach children others that are not like them are bad. I am so sick of hate in the name of Christ so sick of Christians thinking they are so great when they hate others. I think they actually think of no one accepts homosexuality it will just go away i think they are that stupid.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Soooooooooo its okay to bully someone if they do things that go against their religion?

What a wonderful lesson to teach children...

[Kitty]

That's a great idea, especially in schools where there is still racial segregation as well. (Not forced, but black kids and white kids still do not sit together). I really dont see any problem with it. But of course these are the types who don't want their white Christian kids mixing with those who... Aren't.

[m0drnmoonlight]

This is disgraceful, but then again, what do you expect from a hate group like the AFA? I can't believe they scared 200 schools into canceling the program, that's just awful.

[salsa]

I used to get their monthly newsletter (No, I didn't subscribe; it came to me free because it was sent to our church and I got the mail) and from the first, I could hardly believe my eyes. They targeted a certain convenience store and sent a mailing to the entire area that if this convenience store was in your neighborhood, your children were in danger of being raped. The crazy link? something like 60% of pedophiles looked at pornography. Convenience store sold pornography. ......

so, I'm probably not saying anything you don't already know yourselves, but ... this organization can spin anything to "advance" their cause. I've never quite figured out how people can't see through it, though....

The anti-bullying day is a GREAT idea. Only the AFA would use it to "spin" their cause.

[BlueberryBird]

Soooooooooo its okay to bully someone if they do things that go against their religion?

What a wonderful lesson to teach children...

Well, no. Telling the truth isn't bullying. It's, uh, telling the truth! Bullying is telling them that they can't tell the truth.

I think that's how the logic goes...

[atheistjd]

Well, no. Telling the truth isn't bullying. It's, uh, telling the truth! Bullying is telling them that they can't tell the truth.

I think that's how the logic goes...

I know I should not dignify this with a response, but the logic. It fails.

First and foremost, one person's subjective interpretation of one religious text =/= "the truth," and certainly is not something that should be given primacy in a secular society.

Even if it was, however, telling something that is even objectively "truthy" CAN, in fact, be bullying. If one child were to walk up to another child who was, by current scientific standards/measurements, overweight, or "fat" (apologies in advance for how fat-shamey this metaphor is) and called him or her fat, that most certainly could, or would, be bullying. The same could be true of remarks made about skin tone, gender, glasses, braces, or any number of "true" statements.

TL/RD: even though you are incorrect in labeling religious bigotry as truth-telling, even if it were, your argument fails.

ETA: If your post was sarcastic, and it might have been, I apologize for being so snippy. Just redirect my response to those who actually make the argument you just made. Thanks :)

[BlueberryBird]

I know I should not dignify this with a response, but the logic. It fails.

First and foremost, one person's subjective interpretation of one religious text =/= "the truth," and certainly is not something that should be given primacy in a secular society.

Even if it was, however, telling something that is even objectively "truthy" CAN, in fact, be bullying. If one child were to walk up to another child who was, by current scientific standards/measurements, overweight, or "fat" (apologies in advance for how fat-shamey this metaphor is) and called him or her fat, that most certainly could, or would, be bullying. The same could be true of remarks made about skin tone, gender, glasses, braces, or any number of "true" statements.

TL/RD: even though you are incorrect in labeling religious bigotry as truth-telling, even if it were, your argument fails.

ETA: If your post was sarcastic, and it might have been, I apologize for being so snippy. Just redirect my response to those who actually make the argument you just made. Thanks :)

Yes, I was most definitely being sarcastic. That is why I ended with "I think that is how the logic goes."

In the NYT article, that is the crux of the AFA response: they just tell the truth but everybody keeps picking on them for being hateful. They aren't a "hate group" but rather a "truth group." I've heard that before; I think "truth group" might be the cool new buzzword.

[YPestis]

I think the AFA is doing this because they are getting back at the Southern Poverty Law Center in a political move. The fact that a school program meant to break down social barriers gets pushed aside is a moot point since the AFA is not about inclusion, they're about setting fundie based public policies.

Here's what I don't understand. If the AFA and their ilk dislike antibullying programs because they believe it promotes acceptance of homosexuality, then why not start their own antibullying program that promotes "love the sinner, not the sin" idea? It's a common refrain from many churches that one can condemn a sinful activity and still accept the person who commits it. Conservative groups say they also condemn bullying but feel antibullying campaigns are wolves in sheep clothing. Why not build their own antibullying program? How much more Christian is it to stress to kids that Jesus accepts all and loved all despite whatever perceived moral failings they had? Or that everyone, gays and straights have their own failings and one should not single gays out for condemnation or harassment?

There are hard statistics that show gay teens are several times more often bullied, depressed and attempt suicide than nongay teens. Surely, even conservative churches realize that bullying contributes to that problem? I guess many feel it's a behavioral issue and if a teen just stops "being gay", they would no longer be bullied. Of course, any bullied teen will tell you, it's not being gay that gets your harassed, it's the perception that you are different. If churches continue to condemn homosexuality and treat it like a behavioral choice, their flock will continue to think it's ok to bully teens perceived to be gay.

[atheistjd]

Yes, I was most definitely being sarcastic. That is why I ended with "I think that is how the logic goes."

In the NYT article, that is the crux of the AFA response: they just tell the truth but everybody keeps picking on them for being hateful. They aren't a "hate group" but rather a "truth group." I've heard that before; I think "truth group" might be the cool new buzzword.

Yeah, I read that in the article (and have sadly had that argument made to my face many time). It makes me so angry I lashed out irrationally :)

[BlueberryBird]

I think many genuinely feel that they are just hating the sin and not the sinner by telling their truth. That's the disconnect. They don't get that going around telling fragile GBLT teens that they are sinning is, in fact, bullying.

[lilah]

What a lovely program and a good way to build friendships across cliques and grades. I am glad it exists and I wish had existed at my school.

Conservative groups say they also condemn bullying but feel antibullying campaigns are wolves in sheep clothing. Why not build their own antibullying program? How much more Christian is it to stress to kids that Jesus accepts all and loved all despite whatever perceived moral failings they had? Or that everyone, gays and straights have their own failings and one should not single gays out for condemnation or harassment?

I am once again reminded of that Gandhi quote about Christians being so unlike their Christ. Christ would break bread with everyone that society had already rejected.

I think conservatives, paticuarly homophobes will play lip service to notion that bullying is wrong but I think they tacitly approve gay kids getting bullied because they are being punished for being gay, much like a pregnant teen is punished for having sex.

[Artemis]

I realise that this is totally flip and by no means a new thought, but can we just ask them how they know Jesus wasn't gay?

I mean, look at the evidence.

He never married or had a girlfriend.

Went around with a bunch of blokes, one of whom was called the 'beloved disciple', and lolled around on couches with him: 'en to kolpo' in his bosom' at the last supper.

Had friendly, supportive and non-sexual relationships with women.

Told the 'beloved disciple' to look after his mother when he died, just like a dutiful son in law.

If that doesn't ping the gaydar, what does?

Dear Lord, a small and humble prayer: when these wretched homophobes reach their destined end, please appear to them in drag before sending them on to the next place, and let their hell be the eternal knowledge that they were wrong.

[Gil]

While the AFA sucks and their reasoning is stupid, it should be known that Mix It Up At Lunch Day is almost universally hated by its target audience. It winds up making kids sit with kids that they don't sit with for very good reasons. They had this when I was in middle school and most of the people I usually sat with wound up sitting with people we avoided because they harassed us. My memories mostly consist of this event facilitating bullying. No one learned a thing except what it was like to spend a lunch period being even more uncomfortable than school usually is by default. It's pretty ignorant of the realities of tween/teen politics, imo, unless it's changed in the last few years.