Students Seek Right To Display Religious Banners

[thoughtful]

God heard the embattled nations sing and shout

Gott strafe England! and God Save the King!

God this, God that, and God the other thing -

Good God, said God, I've got my work cut out.

- Sir John Squire, 1884-1958

Love it!

If you look at the many pictures with the first story, there are lots of people painting verses on vehicle windows, and making smallish signs suitable for being held up by someone in the stands, as well as the "official" banner.

The implication is that they are being asked not to do any of that, which is not true. As far as I can tell, the kids, parents and reporters don't seem to understand the difference between these things. No, it's all about those poor children being persecuted for being Christian. :roll:

And I pity the office supply and craft stores in the area (well, except for Hobby Lobby -- they can suck it) -- if they have to buy markers and paint in mixed-color batches, they must have huge amounts of every color other than red, white and blue, that nobody buys.

Won't someone think of the retail stores? Use some green or purple, for Jesus' sake! ;)

[mirele]

It doesn't matter if the school told them to do it or not. It is during an official school activity, and schools allowing student-lead, student initiated prayer before football games is unconstitutional.

While this is not exactly a prayer, per se, I would hazard a guess that these big banners are being made with paint and paper provided by the school's art department, they're being held up at the beginning of a football game sanctioned by the school and, thus, the school is endorsing an establishment of religion.

Kountze is going to lose this case badly. They need to gut it up and stop this shit immediately.

[lilwriter85]

By allowing them to show favoritism for one religion over another, the school would be sanctioning their message. The behavior of the cheerleaders is inflammatory and bullying and they know it. They feel they can get away with it because the majority in their community is Christian.

Think how those who are not christian and go to that school will be made to feel by this. Even if they are not the majority, they still have as much right to their beliefs as the cheerleaders. Just because the majority of students may practice some form of Christianity does not give them the right to marginalize the minority students because they don't hold the same religious beliefs.

This. Those cheerleaders and their parents are probably smirking behind the scenes. They also know that nearby towns and schools are going to support them. I looked up info on this town. The population is about 2,000 people. My guess is that the local high school has about 200 students. I do wonder about the number of non-Christians at that school. It is possible that they are no non-Christians at that school. But when it comes down to it, religion needs to be kept away from a school sanctioned event.

[lilwriter85]

I just found HuffPost's article on this http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/2 ... 05083.html

I loved this comment left there

Your home, your church, your religious private school and your religion are all compatible and part of the religious freedom you enjoy as an American citizen. The government, its institutions and property are available to all citizens equally but none of those resources are available as a platform to distribute your personal beliefs. It is no more complicated than that.

The cheerleaders of this public school may not use the school sponsored football game as a platform to distribute their personal religious philosophy.

[2xx1xy1JD]

It reminds me of some poem from one of the Chicken Soup for the Teenaged Soul books where a football player prays before a game, "Please G-d, let my team win." G-d responds, "I can't answer that--the other team is praying for the same thing."

My ultimate blasphemous quote is "G-d does not care which team wins."

[Sola]

By allowing them to show favoritism for one religion over another, the school would be sanctioning their message. The behavior of the cheerleaders is inflammatory and bullying and they know it. They feel they can get away with it because the majority in their community is Christian.

Think how those who are not christian and go to that school will be made to feel by this. Even if they are not the majority, they still have as much right to their beliefs as the cheerleaders. Just because the majority of students may practice some form of Christianity does not give them the right to marginalize the minority students because they don't hold the same religious beliefs.

That's why I wonder what they'd do if a Muslim student wanted to do something similar. If they are OK with every religion and none, then I don't see a problem. But if it is just OK for Christians, fuck that shit.

[debrand]

This is from the Huffington Post article:

I'm actually thankful for it," Ashton Jennings, a cheerleader, told KHOU. "Because if someone hadn't complained, or if there hadn't been any opposition we wouldn't have this chance to spread God's word in this big of a way."

These girls do not have to be cheerleaders nor do they could attend a private, religious school. No one forces them to represent a school that is funded by government money. They aren't spreading the word of god. The people who support them are their fellow Christians. However, nonChristians are repulsed and worried by the cheerleaders' refusal to show respect or consideration for other faiths or nonfaiths.

They apparently have a facebook page.

[lilwriter85]

This is from the Huffington Post article:

These girls do not have to be cheerleaders nor do they could attend a private, religious school. No one forces them to represent a school that is funded by government money. They aren't spreading the word of god. The people who support them are their fellow Christians. However, nonChristians are repulsed and worried by the cheerleaders' refusal to show respect or consideration for other faiths or nonfaiths.

They apparently have a facebook page.

Do you have the link to the FB page?

[B5SnowDog]

Yeah it's Texas. 'Nuff said.

(we may be moving to Texas in a few years and holy shit I have already decided to find a good private school and live on Spam to avoid my kid (who plays football) having to deal with the insanity. I doubt it will help, though)

That wouldn't help you in my Texas town - all the private schools are religious. You'd probably have better luck in Austin or Houston.

[Sydney Fox]

Could these kids get any more narcissistic? Maybe it's my Catholic upbringing, but I always thought that you prayed quietly to God, asked him to help you and went about your day. That sort of public display is just crass. It also conveys that victory is assured because, hey, they've God's favour. What happens when the other team believes? Does God count the virgins on both teams and decide the match based on how heavily each player hits the porn and guilt?

This reminds me of a 3rd Rock From The Sun episode where Tommy prays before a basketball game. Here's a link:

[link=]http://www.freethunk.net/articles/tv-commentary/3rd-rock-from-the-sun-on-prayer-1765[/link]

Link unbroken because it's an atheist site and I doubt they'd mind the extra traffic.

[thoughtful]

http://www.freethunk.net/articles/tv-co ... rayer-1765

I hope Raquel never sees that clip -- she'd blow up like Landru.

[Lemonbalm]

Johnson says Liberty Institute has won 99% of their cases like this one over the past 15 years.

He says the cheerleaders are in the right because the supplies to make the signs came from the girls, not the school district.

http://www.kiiitv.com/story/19590525/ch ... e-attorney

Just putting that out there because someone mentioned the girls were probably using the schools supplies. Doesn't make this right by any means, just wanted the facts to be here though.

[lilwriter85]

I found an article about the Beaumont rally being held to support "these good little Christian belles" and I found the FB page for the event.

http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/ ... 892654.php

http://www.facebook.com/WideAwakeUSA

Some comments from that FB page

So Happy and thrilled to hear this. It is about time " For All Good Christians To Come To The Aid Of Their Country ". This movement is necessary and essential for Christians to claim and take back a country that belongs to GOD anyway. GO CHRISTIANS!!!!!

Wow when did your God claim America?

God is helping us and this is what he want for us to do..put out the word....i have been waiting for this for over 20 years...as soon as they took god out of our schools i home schooled my kids..my cousins do the same will not put them in public schools cause of the fact we no longer have god there...BRING HIM BACK BEFORE YOU LOOSE MORE CHRISTIAN KIDS TO HOME SCHOOL ......I am not knocking home school at all i home schooled my daughter she now has her high school diploma and soon going to college.....I love god and i am not afraid to say so..love yall and keep up the good work will read all post ...

[mirele]

http://www.kiiitv.com/story/19590525/ch ... e-attorney

Just putting that out there because someone mentioned the girls were probably using the schools supplies. Doesn't make this right by any means, just wanted the facts to be here though.

I was the one who said that. Still doesn't mean it's right. It is still an endorsement of religion by the school district. I hate that these issues have to be fought over and over because some people think they're somehow being persecuted by not allowing their beliefs free reign. *shakes head*

[Kitty]

What a bunch of spoiled, privileged brats. Do they really not realize that their public, government-run school is not supposed to endorse one religion or even appear to? That's what would happen if a bunch of cheerleaders in uniform made a banner for the football players in uniform to run through. If you wear a school uniform, you represent the school, and I'm positive that there are all kinds of rules for behavior while in that school's uniform. Or maybe my school's marching band was just weird like that.

[lilwriter85]

My hope is that these brats get their asses handed to them later on in the life. I suspect that some of the kids will never leave Texas, so they will always be surrounded by a Christian majority. HuffPost has a new article on this

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/2 ... 11295.html

I hated this comment.

The religious banners are put on display on a tax funded football field

[Guest Anonymous]

My hope is that these brats get their asses handed to them later on in the life. I suspect that some of the kids will never leave Texas, so they will always be surrounded by a Christian majority. HuffPost has a new article on this

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/2 ... 11295.html

I hated this comment.

The religious banners are put on display on a tax funded football field

[Guest Anonymous]

Isn't almost evrything in the U.S tax funded one way or another?

I don't think so.

[Loveday]

The judge in this case has issued a 'temporary restraining order blocking implementation of the ban.'

http://www.nbc12.com/story/19608390/kou ... ns-for-now

(it's an NBC affiliate, so didn't break the link)

So, for now, the cheerleaders can continue to make their banners and the football players can continue to run right through them. :?

[lilwriter85]

I was checking out the Friendly Atheist's site and he snarked on the football team losing a game.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... eam-loses/

[She Who Laughs]

Update: http://www.kens5.com/news/Judge-rules-i ... 13801.html

[outrunningzombies]

My hope is that these brats get their asses handed to them later on in the life. I suspect that some of the kids will never leave Texas, so they will always be surrounded by a Christian majority.

At least a few of them will go to UT, and they're in for quite the rude awakening there. My husband went from a small private VERY religious high school and was already half atheist and still had a huge culture shock at UT.

Sadly, if it's like most Texas small towns a large number of them will stay in town, insulated in their beliefs, continuing to hand them down generation to generation. Even in the big cities there are plenty of people who support this sort of thing--Houston and Dallas have plenty of mega churches.

[mirele]

Update: http://www.kens5.com/news/Judge-rules-i ... 13801.html

It may take a while, but this will get overturned.

Frankly, running through Bible verses shows a vast disrespect for the Bible (actually, New Testament). You couldn't do this with the Tanakh or the Qur'an, because it's a disrespect to the holy writ.

[BlueberryBird]

I'm fuzzy on the details now, but does anybody remember the rape victim who was kicked off the cheer leading squad because she refused to cheer for her rapist football player? I think this was also in Texas, but I could be wrong.

Schools absolutely have all sorts of rules for official activities and participants (taken to a jaw dropping extreme in that case).

[RachelB]

It is legal for teams to pray and for cheerleaders to make banners as long as it is not school sponsored or led.

As long as a player asks if they can pray before, during or after practice or a game and a player leads the prayer it is ok.

The same with the banners, as long as it is the Cheerleaders idea and no school resources are used it is ok.

Oh, good grief. As if kids don't coerce each other all the damn time in high school. If 29 cheerleaders want to pray a sectarian prayer, and one doesn't, does the commenter really think that one cheerleader is going to refuse to participate? Ugh-- refusing to participate would just turn the "uncooperative" cheerleader into a witnessing project for her teammates.

Change "cheerleaders" to "cross-country runners," and you have the team at the (public) high school I attended, which didn't even have the excuse of being in the bible belt. I was not okay with praying the Lord's prayer together as a team, not because I am not Christian, but because I didn't see what on earth prayer had to do with running. Prayer's a private thing for me, not something to display. But it didn't seem to bother anyone else to pray as a team (yeah, I know! this is bad logic, but I was young), and I didn't want to make a fuss if it wasn't a problem for anybody else.