College course lumps homosexuality in with rape and murder

[luckylibrarian]

Franciscan University of Steubenville (in southeastern Ohio) made the news again for its brand of fundie craziness. They have been in the news a lot over the past year - first, because they discontinued offering students health insurance because they did not want to offer birth control coverage. Then, they sued the government over the mandate to cover birth control in their employees' health insurance.

Now, they've made NPR because of the description for Social Work 314: Deviant Behavior. It reads: ""The behaviors that are primarily examined are murder, rape, robbery, prostitution, homosexuality, mental illness and drug use." Franciscan responded to NPR with the following statement: ""Franciscan University follows Catholic Church teaching in regard to homosexuality and treats homosexual persons with 'respect, compassion, and sensitivity' (Catechism of the Catholic Church, No. 2358) while holding homosexual acts as 'intrinsically disordered.'" How can they say that they treat people with respect and sensitivity, while lumping them in with rapists and murderers?

Some gay and lesbian students on campus are fighting to have the course description changed. The university isn't having any of it. Instead, they sent their lawyers to warn the students not to use Franciscan's name in any of their activities, which marginalizes these students even further.

Here is the link to the NPR article: http://www.npr.org/2012/09/10/160763549 ... ape-murder

I'm not too surprised. I visited Franciscan, and they seem to be the training ground for fundie Catholics. There is a creepy fundie atmosphere. All of the students I met were perky, smiling robots. The bulletin boards were plastered with pamphlets warning of the war against Catholicism and instructions on how Catholics must vote. The bookstore sold materials that would make the Duggars happy. Not a secular book in sight - just books about "abortion regret" and DVDs promoting courtship. The campus also features a "Tomb to the Unborn Child" with an eternally burning flame. It's a very strange school. I was raised Catholic, but this isn't the type of fairly liberal Christmas-and-Easter Catholicism that I was raised with.

[ElphabaGalinda]

It must be horrible to be a gay or lesbian student at that school. I don't know how they do it. Especially the ones who aren't open, it's horrible to be taught that you're the same as a rapist or a murderer or that you're disordered.

[PennySycamore]

I heard that story, too, on my way home from the vet's. (My cat is diabetic and goes in for periodic glucose checks.) It made me so mad! F. U. of Steubenville got a ton of money from Domino's founder Tom Monaghan before he founded Ava Maria U in Florida. Their batshit craziness goes back to their embracing the charismatic renewal in the 70s though. The school turned to the hard right wing of the renewal. Incredible as it may seem, their were some voices in the early days of Catholic charismatic renewal that were liberal or moderate, but they were completely drowned out by the right-wing wackos.

[darkplumaged]

The only thing I know about that university is that a friend of a friend went there. She's in her mid-30s and has eight children. I cannot stress enough how unusual this is where I live, particularly among younger people. So yeah, there must be some fundie stuff going on there.

[grovelina]

I had a friend in college who was seriously considering Stuebenville. She was also seriously considering a convent vocation, though ultimately she has so far decided against it. She said if she had gone there, it would have been very hard to find a husband if she chose that path since so many men were planning on entering the priesthood. Of course, she left our liberal, secular university without a date also since she never found a person who met her fundie Catholic standards. It is such a conservative place, I am surprised that there are any openly gay students.

[MonkeyMomma]

In high school, amongst the Very Good Catholics I knew, Steubenville was one of the few acceptable options for college. That, and Christendom in Virginia and Gannon in Erie (because of close proximity and affiliation with the diocese, I assume). Thankfully, my dear mother encouraged me to explore more options. :D

Also, is Steubenville's social work program accredited? I can't imagine a nationally recognized social work body approving of this course for future social workers ...

[Gil]

Also, is Steubenville's social work program accredited? I can't imagine a nationally recognized social work body approving of this course for future social workers ...

And because Franciscan’s Social Work Program is accredited by the Council on Social Work Education, you know you’ll be receiving an education that meets the highest of professional standards and will prepare you for work in your field

Guess so. :(

[MonkeyMomma]

Guess so. :(

Hmm ... perhaps they should be asked about Steubenville's accreditation?

http://www.cswe.org/About/StaffDir.aspx

[lizziesmom]

Has anyone done a study to see whether there is a higher suicide rate among LGBTs in these kinds of situations (religions that condemn as sin) than the general population?

[MarsGirl]

It's so weird. I was raised Catholic. Stories like these make me go ???? See, in the version of Catholicism I was raised, we were open-minded and intelligent. My grandma--a devote Catholic her whole life--taught me to question and always enjoyed a good debate. She would never have condemned any gay people, she probably would have thought they had the right to get married, and I'm pretty sure that if I came out as gay she would have loved me all the same. My mom (who is now atheist) taught me that the Old Testament is just stories to teach you certain things... my grandma even supported this idea that the Bible was not, for the most part, to be taken literally.

So the whole idea of "fundie Catholic" blows my mind. All these years, I've thought those Protestant religions were nuts and that Catholics were sane, thinking people. I guess I just grew up in a liberal version of all that. It's so eye-opening.

[tropaka]

They should change the wording in the title - I do remember in my own (public college) sociology course "deviant" did not mean "bad", just statistically "deviant" from the norm. In that context homosexuality, is "deviant", but so are a number of other acceptable behaviours - not just crimes like pedophilia and murder.

Then again, I know nothing about this university and the way the title is worder might very well be intentional.

[ElphabaGalinda]

They should change the wording in the title - I do remember in my own (public college) sociology course "deviant" did not mean "bad", just statistically "deviant" from the norm. In that context homosexuality, is "deviant", but so are a number of other acceptable behaviours - not just crimes like pedophilia and murder.

Then again, I know nothing about this university and the way the title is worder might very well be intentional.

Placing homosexuality among only unacceptable behaviors like murder and rape makes it pretty obvious that you mean deviant to be bad. That and the fundie nature of the college.

ETA: The university responded that they view homosexuality as intrinsically disordered, so it's pretty obvious what that means.

I'd be terrified to be openly gay on that campus.

[MarsGirl]

I want to know why anyone who is gay would want to go to that school. I would not want to go to a fundie college where they thought feminism was evil...

[Gil]

I want to know why anyone who is gay would want to go to that school. I would not want to go to a fundie college where they thought feminism was evil...

Sometimes, people are given an option between fundie college or no college.

Sucks, though. I just want to liberate them...

[PennySycamore]

I want to know why anyone who is gay would want to go to that school. I would not want to go to a fundie college where they thought feminism was evil...

You probably wouldn't if you were LGBTQ and were out to yourself and accepted your sexual orientation. You might not have a choice if your parents said that you would go the FU of Stuebenville or else AND you weren't our to yourself.

I've known people in that situation that have gone to Bob Jones University: it was either BJU or you didn't get any help going to college. I've also known several out and proud gays that survived BJU somehow. One man was the head of our local gay and lesbian youth organization. Another man was a local news anchor who probably came out fairly late. He sometimes preached at fundie churches before coming out, which must have been incredibly difficult for him. Another man helped start a local organization fighting for LGBTQ rights. These men are all unwelcome on campus, btw.

Christendom College is another place full of batshit crazies. I used to know the mom of one of the profs. The apple didn't fall far from the tree.

[Jinger Jar]

I heard that story, too, on my way home from the vet's. (My cat is diabetic and goes in for periodic glucose checks.) It made me so mad! F. U. of Steubenville got a ton of money from Domino's founder Tom Monaghan before he founded Ava Maria U in Florida. Their batshit craziness goes back to their embracing the charismatic renewal in the 70s though. The school turned to the hard right wing of the renewal. Incredible as it may seem, their were some voices in the early days of Catholic charismatic renewal that were liberal or moderate, but they were completely drowned out by the right-wing wackos.

A family friend graduated from Steubenville back in the 70s. His oldest daughter was accepted there about five years ago and transferred a state school in California after one semester. He didn't encourage his other two kids to even apply. He said right-wing turn the college has made since he was a student there made the place virtually unrecognizable.

[luckylibrarian]

Guess so. :(

According to the article, it looks like the CSWA will be investigating the matter. Hopefully, that will be an issue whenever the program is up for re-accreditation.

[Miggy]

Placing homosexuality among only unacceptable behaviors like murder and rape makes it pretty obvious that you mean deviant to be bad. That and the fundie nature of the college.

ETA: The university responded that they view homosexuality as intrinsically disordered, so it's pretty obvious what that means.

I'd be terrified to be openly gay on that campus.

Why has no one else pointed out that mental illness is also listed? Mental illness, as with homosexuality, is not a problem in the real world but is in fundyland. The course may be unfortunately titled and they are just studying all those who "deviate" from normal. They may be calling all LGBT and mentally ill evil, in which case we should be hearing the mentally ill community screaming too.

I guess those of us who have or live with someone affected by mental illness just aren't vocal enough.

[Shoobydoo]

Apparently I have a cousin who goes/went there recently. :?

[MarsGirl]

You probably wouldn't if you were LGBTQ and were out to yourself and accepted your sexual orientation. You might not have a choice if your parents said that you would go the FU of Stuebenville or else AND you weren't our to yourself.

I've known people in that situation that have gone to Bob Jones University: it was either BJU or you didn't get any help going to college. I've also known several out and proud gays that survived BJU somehow. One man was the head of our local gay and lesbian youth organization. Another man was a local news anchor who probably came out fairly late. He sometimes preached at fundie churches before coming out, which must have been incredibly difficult for him. Another man helped start a local organization fighting for LGBTQ rights. These men are all unwelcome on campus, btw.

Christendom College is another place full of batshit crazies. I used to know the mom of one of the profs. The apple didn't fall far from the tree.

As I had to pay for college myself, I guess I forget that some people are chained to the parent. My parents tried to sway where I went (I wanted to live on campus, they wanted me to stay at home and go to a local school), but since I was paying myself it ultimately was my decision. (They couldnt afford to pay for my college even with all the loans and other financial aid I received.)

[ElphabaGalinda]

Why has no one else pointed out that mental illness is also listed? Mental illness, as with homosexuality, is not a problem in the real world but is in fundyland. The course may be unfortunately titled and they are just studying all those who "deviate" from normal. They may be calling all LGBT and mentally ill evil, in which case we should be hearing the mentally ill community screaming too.

I guess those of us who have or live with someone affected by mental illness just aren't vocal enough.

They are probably calling mental illness evil too. They probably think it's caused by the devil and cured by prayer, which is absolutely ridiculous to think. Though mental illness does hurt people (the person who has the mental illness especially) While being LGBT isn't the least bit harmful, so it's still a false comparison. (especially since many people still think being gay is a mental illness, which it is not.) But yes, if they mean deviant the way I think they mean it, mental illness shouldn't be there either.

[fundyfunland]

They are probably calling mental illness evil too. They probably think it's caused by the devil and cured by prayer, which is absolutely ridiculous to think. Though mental illness does hurt people (the person who has the mental illness especially) While being LGBT isn't the least bit harmful, so it's still a false comparison. (especially since many people still think being gay is a mental illness, which it is not.) But yes, if they mean deviant the way I think they mean it, mental illness shouldn't be there either.[/quote.] - ElphabaGalinda's quote

In what sense do you mean that mental illness hurts people? Are you referring to the emotional anguish that it causes the person with the disease, or that those with mental illness actually hurt others? Just want that clarified. If you're referring to the emotional distress, then I'd say being LGBT might also be harmful (I'm thinking of those who are unable to live their lives 'out'). Either way, mental illness and LGBT should not be considered deviant behaviour. Neither are behaviours.

Ultimately, this course just plain sucks. I hope the program gets its accreditation revoked.

Edited several times because I can't figure out why the heck EG's quote isn't in quotation (sorry EG).

[Gil]

quote="fundyfunland"]

They are probably calling mental illness evil too. They probably think it's caused by the devil and cured by prayer, which is absolutely ridiculous to think. Though mental illness does hurt people (the person who has the mental illness especially) While being LGBT isn't the least bit harmful, so it's still a false comparison. (especially since many people still think being gay is a mental illness, which it is not.) But yes, if they mean deviant the way I think they mean it, mental illness shouldn't be there either.[/quote.] - ElphabaGalinda's quote

In what sense do you mean that mental illness hurts people? Are you referring to the emotional anguish that it causes the person with the disease, or that those with mental illness actually hurt others? Just want that clarified. If you're referring to the emotional distress, then I'd say being LGBT might also be harmful (I'm thinking of those who are unable to live their lives 'out'). Either way, mental illness and LGBT should not be considered deviant behaviour. Neither are behaviours.

Ultimately, this course just plain sucks. I hope the program gets its accreditation revoked.

Edited several times because I can't figure out why the heck EG's quote isn't in quotation (sorry EG).

As a person in both categories, I wouldn't put emotional distress from mental illness in the same category as emotional distress from being LGBT. From the former, it's primarily internal from the get-go, although the way society treats mentally ill people can compound and create its own damage. In the latter, while internalized homophobia is certainly an incredibly powerful thing, the emotional distress by and large is imposed on us by society and external means (family, religion, etc). Being gay has never caused me emotional distress, but the way people treat or view me/homosexuality has. If you can't be out, it's being forced to live in the closet and its residual shame/internalization that's really hurting you.

At any rate, this is a deeply flawed program that really doesn't look like it should be accredited.

[Jessica]

Uhh yeah, because being in a same-sex relationship with another consenting adult is the same thing as violently sexually assaulting someone. Right...

[B5SnowDog]

Edited several times because I can't figure out why the heck EG's quote isn't in quotation (sorry EG).

Delete the second quote tag at the end of "I guess those of us who have or live with someone affected by mental illness just aren't vocal enough."