No religious symbols allows...except for the crucifix

[2xx1xy1JD]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebecvot ... ssues.html

Sorry to burst the bubble on anyone who thinks that Canada is 100% perfect, but the Province of Quebec has an election tomorrow and the Parti Quebequois, which is leading in the polls, isn't being shy about its intolerant agenda.

PQ leader Pauline Marois has vowed to introduce a "secular charter" that would include an outright ban on religious symbols for those who work in public institutions - effectively making it impossible for observant Jews, Muslims and Sikhs to work there - but did indicate that there would be an exception for those who wanted to wear a small crucifix on a necklace. She has also defended the continued presence of a large crucifix in the legislature, because it's part of "Quebec's heritage".

[MrsYoungie]

Canada is not perfect, but I like it here. But Quebec? can be totally nuts at times.

[ElphabaGalinda]

I've been getting nervous that they might win, as my family are somewhat observant Jews that live in Quebec. It makes me sad that the majority in Quebec seems to support that....how is a crucifix not a religious symbol? That's not a secular charter, it's an against everything not Christian charter. And most people in Quebec don't even seem that religious, just nominally Christian but taking Christianity as the norm, which is why I think this might be so supported. I do like living in Canada, but things like this disturb me. I would never have considered moving to Quebec before, but after this, I hope at least some of my family flees to Ontario.

[Minerva]

I literally don't get how religious intolerance is so huge in Québec. Like it's a thing in all provinces, but so many Québecois people I know are totally Islamophobic and xenophobic. How people don't see how blatantly racist outlawing every religious symbol except the cross is, I don't know.

Edited because xenophobic does not get capitalized.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I've been getting nervous that they might win, as my family are somewhat observant Jews that live in Quebec. It makes me sad that the majority in Quebec seems to support that....how is a crucifix not a religious symbol? That's not a secular charter, it's an against everything not Christian charter. And most people in Quebec don't even seem that religious, just nominally Christian but taking Christianity as the norm, which is why I think this might be so supported. I do like living in Canada, but things like this disturb me. I would never have considered moving to Quebec before, but after this, I hope at least some of my family flees to Ontario.

It's not just "everything not Christian". It's a xenophobic "everything connected to Others who are not pure-wool Quebecois or at least willing to completely abandon their own language, religion, culture and political ideas and start acting exactly like us".

Don't forget, this is coming from the party of Jacques Parizeau, the former premier who said in 1995 that "60% of who WE are voted yes...we lost to money and the ethnic vote". In his mind, Jews like my grandparents weren't included in "who we are", despite the fact that my family's roots in Quebec go back over 100 years. He explicitly stated later that his remarks about the ethnic vote referred to Jews, Greeks and Italians.

[GiGi_41]

I had a Canadian Sailor boyfriend back in the day...I remember the first time he took me on a tour of the ship. I asked why everything was in English and French. He said it was for the Toads...later it was explained to me that crazy people from Quebec didn't necessarily speak English and they were always trying to become their own nation. At the time I was 18 and naive and it made absolutely no sense to me.

[crazyforkate]

Okay, seriously? This is not the kind of thing Canada should stand for. Quebec, stop being ridiculous.

[Maude]

I think (hope) this charter will be shot down. As one commenter said, Québec will use it as another excuse to separate. I've had it with the Parti Québecois.

- Edited because angry rant and clarification -

[adayinthelife]

Some of what they are proposing is absolutely crazy. Many parts of Quebec benefit hugely from tourism and these laws would make it so needlessly unwelcoming for tourists. I don't understand it at all.

[nomoxian]

That political party really is something...

Another WTF is that they paid for promo material to be made outside of Quebec (I worked making it, so I don't want to get into details) Some separatists :lol:

[Minerva]

I think the Québecois have a lot of good things to offer Canada, including a far more motivated activist community than I've seen anywhere else. I don't understand where all the racism comes from, if I didn't know better, they'd be the last province I'd expect to find these attitudes. I think the issue of them separating is separate from whether I like their overall politics or not. For one I could see things getting more oppressive there for non-Christians and immigrants if they separated and were no longer bound by Canada's various human rights codes. For another, if they want to separate it's their right and it doesn't affect me, and if they don't, that's also their right and I don't support expecting people to leave the country just because I don't like them. I don't understand people with 0 ties to Québec getting angry at the idea of them separating. Whether or not I need a passport to visit Montréal is trivial compared to how it would affect the daily lives of people who live in Québec.

[Maude]

I think the Québecois have a lot of good things to offer Canada, including a far more motivated activist community than I've seen anywhere else. I don't understand where all the racism comes from, if I didn't know better, they'd be the last province I'd expect to find these attitudes. I think the issue of them separating is separate from whether I like their overall politics or not. For one I could see things getting more oppressive there for non-Christians and immigrants if they separated and were no longer bound by Canada's various human rights codes. For another, if they want to separate it's their right and it doesn't affect me, and if they don't, that's also their right and I don't support expecting people to leave the country just because I don't like them. I don't understand people with 0 ties to Québec getting angry at the idea of them separating. Whether or not I need a passport to visit Montréal is trivial compared to how it would affect the daily lives of people who live in Québec.

Minerva, all Canadians should be concerned about Quebec separation, though Ontarians would undoubtedly feel it the most. For example, trade routes would be compromised because the St. Lawrence belongs to Quebec, and our bilingual heritage would be up in the air. It's also possible our relations with France would be compromised. I can't find a shred of good to be had in Parti Québécois, so we'll have to agree to disagree on that matter.

[Minerva]

Minerva, all Canadians should be concerned about Quebec separation, though Ontarians would undoubtedly feel it the most. For example, trade routes would be compromised because the St. Lawrence belongs to Quebec, and our bilingual heritage would be up in the air. It's also possible our relations with France would be compromised. Despite what I said in my previous post, I recognize that all of these things make Quebec's possible separation a bad thing. I can't find a shred of good to be had in Parti Québécois, so we'll have to agree to disagree on that matter.

I do agree with you that the PQ is purely horrid (by "the Québecois", I meant the people of Québec), and I acknowledge that non-Québecois would feel the impact of a separation, but I maintain that people who are most affected by a change should get the most say in it, which is why I refrain from having an opinion on separation. I don't know what the state of French is in other provinces, but I know that the Franco-Ontarian community doesn't rely on Québec being part of Canada for our continued existence. I would guess that many French-Canadian Ontarians are distantly descended from Québecois, at most. We've managed to have bilingualism recognized in many of our individual towns, on road signs and in city hall, through our own effort. I see your point about official bilingualism being up in the air, and I have no doubt it would change for provinces with very small Franco populations, but if there aren't enough Francophones in an area, you're already not going to be served in French whether you're at Wendy's or a government office. Official bilingualism is nothing but decorative in a lot of places, but of course it would still be terrible to see it go.

[Maude]

I do agree with you that the PQ is purely horrid (by "the Québecois", I meant the people of Québec), and I acknowledge that non-Québecois would feel the impact of a separation, but I maintain that people who are most affected by a change should get the most say in it, which is why I refrain from having an opinion on separation. I don't know what the state of French is in other provinces, but I know that the Franco-Ontarian community doesn't rely on Québec being part of Canada for our continued existence. I would guess that many French-Canadian Ontarians are distantly descended from Québecois, at most. We've managed to have bilingualism recognized in many of our individual towns, on road signs and in city hall, through our own effort. I see your point about official bilingualism being up in the air, and I have no doubt it would change for provinces with very small Franco populations, but if there aren't enough Francophones in an area, you're already not going to be served in French whether you're at Wendy's or a government office. Official bilingualism is nothing but decorative in a lot of places, but of course it would still be terrible to see it go.

I misread and apologize regarding "the Québecois." I'm too use to referring to the PQ simply as Québecois. My fault entirely. I edited my first post for clarification.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I do wonder about the future of official bilingualism at the federal level if Quebec separates.

It wouldn't be a civil war, but the separation process would be messy. You'd have to deal with:

- possible responsibility for a portion of the federal debt

- ownership of federal assets in Quebec (government buildings, military bases, etc.)

- reconfiguring the National Capital Region to take out everything in Gatineau and turn Ottawa into an international border town

- tons of issues with Native peoples, who are under federal jurisdiction and generally oppose separation, since Quebec may lack a legal claim to their lands

You'd also have to negotiate free trade between Quebec and the rest of Canada, and agreements to allow the free passage of goods through Quebec territory.

[Seven Severn]

Having the seaway compromised would be disastrous. Much (most?) of Great Lakes shipping is intralakes, but salties (salt water vessels) do make regular forays into the lakes to discharge things like wind turbine parts and pick up grain to be discharged to much of the world. If, in a fit of pique, a Quebecois government decided to shut down the seaway or even impose large fees on ships the ripple effect would be far reaching. Now that I think about it, though, intralakes ships could retaliate by cuttting off Quebec from grain, fuel, ore, and machine parts. Anyway, it would be giant mess with far-reaching implications.

[Seven Severn]

There was an attempt on Pauline Marois' life last night at her victory party.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/05/world/ame ... ?hpt=hp_t3