Little House series: book vs reality

[hoipolloi]

Holy Toledo! Just reading the Miller book (Becoming Laura Ingalls Wilder), and he says that there were three (3) additional people living with the Ingalls family throughout the Long Winter, whom the family invited to stay with them when they were stranded in DeSmet after the continuous snow storms began. :o

They were George Masters, his wife Maggie & infant child. Apparently, the wife was quite nice but George was an asshole - sullen, lazy, complaining & gobbling up as much food as he could when it was on the table. LIW chose not to include any of this in the novel.

I must say that this puts a different complexion on Pa's little escape & square meal with the Wilder boys - I wonder that Pa didn't deck Masters or order him at rifle-point to shape out or get kicked out.

[freejoytoo]

I haven't seen it mentioned here yet...but Roger MacBride also co-wrote a bunch of books that were of Rose's life growing up on the prairie. I believe they are called "The Rocky Ridge" years? First book starts out with Little House on Rocky Ridge. I know I read these also growing up after the original little house books...and I think there might be 5 or so more in that series? I know I remember crying when I read the forward of one of the books towards the end of that series of Roger MacBride passing away (or maybe it was Rose? It's been a long time) because that would mean there would be no more little house books. I might not have actually read the last 1 or 2 because by the time they came out I was in highschool and outgrew that kind of stuff.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_ ... idge+years

Also another series is "The Caroline" years....which is supposed to be Laura's mother as a little girl....no idea how accurate they are...and from what I remember I never actually finished the first one for some reason it bored me to death even though I plowed though the other ones. Looks like there are a few more now.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_ ... line+years

While I know the original books are probably a library staple...not sure how available the above ones are as far as borrowing from the library.

Edit: Found an accurate list...looks like we all got a lot of reading to do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Li ... ain_Series

I'm curious to read those but they look rather badly written and historically inaccurate. I don't think my library is likely to stock them and I don't really want to buy them, so I probably will never read them! Has anyone here read them?

[FloraDoraDolly]

I'm curious to read those but they look rather badly written and historically inaccurate. I don't think my library is likely to stock them and I don't really want to buy them, so I probably will never read them! Has anyone here read them?

I haven't read them, but I bought a couple of them for my niece a few years back. I've seen them in the children's section of my local library and at Barnes & Noble. So if you want to take a look, the books are readily available. When I browsed through them, my impression was that they're not as good as the originals but they'll appeal to kids who read the "Little House" series or who like historical fiction in general.

[jaynie]

I haven't seen it mentioned here yet...but Roger MacBride also co-wrote a bunch of books that were of Rose's life growing up on the prairie. I believe they are called "The Rocky Ridge" years? First book starts out with Little House on Rocky Ridge. I know I read these also growing up after the original little house books...and I think there might be 5 or so more in that series? I know I remember crying when I read the forward of one of the books towards the end of that series of Roger MacBride passing away (or maybe it was Rose? It's been a long time) because that would mean there would be no more little house books. I might not have actually read the last 1 or 2 because by the time they came out I was in highschool and outgrew that kind of stuff.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_ ... idge+years

Also another series is "The Caroline" years....which is supposed to be Laura's mother as a little girl....no idea how accurate they are...and from what I remember I never actually finished the first one for some reason it bored me to death even though I plowed though the other ones. Looks like there are a few more now.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_ ... line+years

While I know the original books are probably a library staple...not sure how available the above ones are as far as borrowing from the library.

Edit: Found an accurate list...looks like we all got a lot of reading to do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Li ... ain_Series

The Caroline Years books are actually the only ones I read, but only because at the tender age of eight I had the hipster illness of not wanting to like something popular, ie. the actual Little House books. I can't remember what the writing quality was like -- probably awful -- but they did give me a soft spot for Ma Ingalls. IIRC they were based on letters and journals and so on, but they're probably not terribly accurate even so. I imagine the further back stories are even more dodgy. Still, I think the historical/setting accuracy is pretty OK for kids books.

[Letgo]

He had "itchy feet" and should have settled sooner. But don't forget how in America in that time, there was so much more to explore, and it was easier to move along. Instead of gas, you fed your animals grass for free. Instead of hotels, sleeping on the ground or in your wagon was normal, and it was free. You ate what you hunted, free except for the bullets and powder, instead of paying for food at restaurants. A lot of the moving was to places they thought a better living could be made. A lot of families today move to where they think there's better work. When a family is on hard times, someone's going to suggest moving to another state where living is cheaper and there might be jobs. It's not like the Ingalls family left any home because they were bored of the landscape. It was to chase the dream of having plenty or of having plenty by making a lot of money. Charles being one of the founding men of DeSmet was luck of being in the right place at the right time, and when he wanted to leave, it was for the great dream of Oregon territory, but the move didn't happen when Caroline put her foot down. They were finally getting by all right, so there was no reason for it. But earlier on, when there was little or no chance of eking out a decent living and the cost of moving was nearly free, why stay where it's just not working?

On the subject of Pa moving frequently...years ago I read someplace that many of the early white settlers who came to America had ADHD. They were misfits in their own countries, didn't like being in one place too long, and were adventurous risk takers. The article or book (can't recall which it was) said this is why the US has so many children diagnosed with ADHD-there is more of it here than in Europe because so many of the Europeans who had it left years ago. I don't know if that has any truth to it, but it could help explain Pa wanting to move and not feel hemmed in by towns and people.

[debrand]

The part with the doll and the part where Pa wouldn't let Jack in the wagon to cross the river and they think he died are the parts of the books that I hate the most. They make me mad. I realize times were different back them, but damn! Put the little dog in the wagon, that weight won't sink it!

I've known older farmers who keep their dogs outside. However, I can't imagine not putting a small dog in the wagon so they could cross the river. If Ma didn't want him to muddy the back of the wagon, she could have sat him on the seat up front. The part of Jack's eyes glowing in the dark made me cry when I was a little kid. Even remembering it, makes me a little sad

I've got to find those books again. LOL

Am I imagining things or is there a bathing scene in Little House In The Big Woods where Caroline tells her husband not to peep in at her? It seems like Ma hung up bath sheets for privacy.

[HOTW]

I've known older farmers who keep their dogs outside. However, I can't imagine not putting a small dog in the wagon so they could cross the river. If Ma didn't want him to muddy the back of the wagon, she could have sat him on the seat up front. The part of Jack's eyes glowing in the dark made me cry when I was a little kid. Even remembering it, makes me a little sad

You may not realize it but the Bulldog of that period was about 22-27 inches tall and about 70-110 pounds, so it was not a small dog.

http://joshuakennels.com/e107_images/Bulldog_1870s.jpg -here's a pic from the time period

[Maul the Koala]

I haven't seen it mentioned here yet...but Roger MacBride also co-wrote a bunch of books that were of Rose's life growing up on the prairie. I believe they are called "The Rocky Ridge" years? First book starts out with Little House on Rocky Ridge. I know I read these also growing up after the original little house books...and I think there might be 5 or so more in that series? I know I remember crying when I read the forward of one of the books towards the end of that series of Roger MacBride passing away (or maybe it was Rose? It's been a long time) because that would mean there would be no more little house books. I might not have actually read the last 1 or 2 because by the time they came out I was in highschool and outgrew that kind of stuff.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_ ... idge+years

Also another series is "The Caroline" years....which is supposed to be Laura's mother as a little girl....no idea how accurate they are...and from what I remember I never actually finished the first one for some reason it bored me to death even though I plowed though the other ones. Looks like there are a few more now.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_ ... line+years

While I know the original books are probably a library staple...not sure how available the above ones are as far as borrowing from the library.

Edit: Found an accurate list...looks like we all got a lot of reading to do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Li ... ain_Series

I have all the Little House spinoff books. The Caroline ones were decent. The Martha and Charlotte ones were not good. I found they were aimed at a much younger set than the others and a lot of it was based on Melissa Wiley's imagination. I liked the Rose years a lot though. My copies are worn out from re-reading them. Make sure to get the unabridged versions though!

[PennySycamore]

You may not realize it but the Bulldog of that period was about 22-27 inches tall and about 70-110 pounds, so it was not a small dog.

http://joshuakennels.com/e107_images/Bulldog_1870s.jpg -here's a pic from the time period

Thanks for the picture of an old-type bulldog, HOTW.

Bulldogs now weigh about 45-55 pounds and are shorter than they used to be as a result of crossbreeding with pugs. That made their faces more brachycephalic. Unfortunately, this had made the bulldog's head to big to pass through the birth canal and so 80% of whelping is done by c-section.

Jack did not look like Uga or Handsome Dan even if he were wearing the right sweater.

ETA: Jack may have looked a lot like the original Handsome Dan who a Yale football player purchased from a New Haven blacksmith in 1889. No wonder he was named Handsome Dan. He was one fine looking dog! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handsome_Dan

[lorem ipsum]

Loving this thread - I never watched the show but was a huuuuge fan of the books growing up. This makes me want to read them all again!

That Preeble is a bit spendy.

TY for the links.

If you really want a copy of the Prebble book, try abebooks - prices for a used paperback start at around $13 w/ shipping ([link=http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=prebble&tn=high+girder]linky[/link]), much more reasonable than the three figure prices on Amazon. :)

[debrand]

You may not realize it but the Bulldog of that period was about 22-27 inches tall and about 70-110 pounds, so it was not a small dog.

http://joshuakennels.com/e107_images/Bulldog_1870s.jpg -here's a pic from the time period

I did not know that. Thanks for the interesting information. The drawings that came with the book depicted Jack as a small dog so I assumed that they were correct.

[HOTW]

Thanks for the picture of an old-type bulldog, HOTW.

Bulldogs now weigh about 45-55 pounds and are shorter than they used to be as a result of crossbreeding with pugs. That made their faces more brachycephalic. Unfortunately, this had made the bulldog's head to big to pass through the birth canal and so 80% of whelping is done by c-section.

Jack did not look like Uga or Handsome Dan even if he were wearing the right sweater.

ETA: Jack may have looked a lot like the original Handsome Dan who a Yale football player purchased from a New Haven blacksmith in 1889. No wonder he was named Handsome Dan. He was one fine looking dog! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handsome_Dan

You are referring to the Modern English Bulldog. Mostof the pit breeds had a huge variety in them back then they did not purposely breed for the typiness till closer to the 1890's. If you do a search for American Bulldog you will find even then th eimages hsow a huge diversity, some having the resemblence of the English other the AMerican. There are still pitbreeds that are recognized but not a member of any national registering club. My parents bred English Bulldogs and their weights tended to be 55-65 they once did have a small bitch who came in at 40 lbs and she was tiny compared to many in the ring. They do have a picture on their files of a ancester and it is from about 1900 and he was really typey for the Modern English back then. It was amazing how the breeds came from similar backgrounds yet split so quickly. Even now we keep changing the look of breeds dependent upon what "wins" in the ring!

[kian]

After reading here for around 6 months or so, it was *this* thread that finally made me join up!

I *loved* the Little House books as a child (hated the tv show after I realized early on that it was nothing like the books). Like many of you mentioned, I too had my own Little House dress and bonnet, handmade by my mother. I also had Holly and Heather Hobbie, all the better to play pioneer days with!

I have the cookbook, had the music book, had a book with Laura's writings in Missouri and a biography of her. Have no idea where they all went to. I am really loving all the extra information that has been supplied on this thread! As a child I actually argued with the librarian over the placement of the books in the "fiction" section, because since Laura was real, surely her books were 100% fact!

I've read "Big Woods" to my boys and, of course, "Farmer Boy" (one that I only read twice as a child, Laura was far more interesting to me!). We started LHOTP and as I was reading about them leaving Jack to cross the river I was desperately trying to remember if he showed up later!

As a side question, how many posts do I need to be able to send a private message? Another reason I signed up is that during the course of reading this thread I realized that I might be related to one of the posters! So I'd like to send a PM to ask some questions instead of sounding lame by asking publically.

[Trynn]

a 70-110 pound dog is still about the weight of a small human (it's about what I weigh) so the dog STILL could've gone in the wagon, as I imagine another full sized adult wouldn't have sunk it.

I read some of the spinoff books. I was horrible concerned with accuracy, and couldn't imagine the ones farther back being as accurate. I was too young to realize bad writing when I saw it, so I can't really comment on that.

I do remember The Rose Years adding in a boy named Nate, and the family kinda sorta not really but almost adopted him... but there was no mention of him in any of Rose's biographies that I read, so after that I felt kind of cheated. I felt like it was the Albert scenario all over again --adding in a boy because whoever wrote it didn't think girls were interesting enough.

I only saw a few of the tv series. The deviations from the books didn't bother me as much as the historical inaccuracy. You had Laura learning about the suffrage movement IN SCHOOL, you had people using telephones all over the place (I think they existed at the time, but only rich people had them) and the children had GRADES in school. (Schools weren't divided by grades until Rose was... almost a teenager? If I remember correctly? Laura's Ma certainly never would have had to worry about Mary having to repeat a grade.

And don't even get me STARTED on Albert. I didn't start at the beginning, so when I saw him in an episode I was like, where did he come from and what is he doing here?

[Maggie Mae]

I stopped reading this thread on page 3 because of spoilers - i know - but I wanted to take this opportunity to ask if anyone knows why the books aren't available on Kindle or iBooks? I want to read them again as a grownup - I barely remember any of them other than Farmer's Boy - and it looks like I can't :(

[hoipolloi]

I stopped reading this thread on page 3 because of spoilers - i know - but I wanted to take this opportunity to ask if anyone knows why the books aren't available on Kindle or iBooks? I want to read them again as a grownup - I barely remember any of them other than Farmer's Boy - and it looks like I can't :(

My guess is that the best known versions (http://www.littlehousebooks.com/books/) are still under copyright by HarperCollins and/or LIW's heirs.

Here's a link to an Amazon users' discussion about this issue: http://www.amazon.com/forum/kindle/Tx2M ... tagsDetail

[thekate]

I stopped reading this thread on page 3 because of spoilers - i know - but I wanted to take this opportunity to ask if anyone knows why the books aren't available on Kindle or iBooks? I want to read them again as a grownup - I barely remember any of them other than Farmer's Boy - and it looks like I can't :(

Another poster earlier in the thread provided this link: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/ebooks ... =W&page=36

PRC format works with the Kindle.

[Maggie Mae]

Another poster earlier in the thread provided this link: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/ebooks ... =W&page=36

PRC format works with the Kindle.

AWESOME. Thanks!

Sorry for the derailing.

[PennySycamore]

I did not know that. Thanks for the interesting information. The drawings that came with the book depicted Jack as a small dog so I assumed that they were correct.

I may be remembering the early books (Big Woods and Prairie) wrong, but I thought Pa said one time that a person needed a good watchdog on the frontier. Perhaps he said that after Jack came back or after he was presumed lost, but if Pa felt that way then why in the hell did he not put Jack in the wagon!

[FloraDoraDolly]

I have the cookbook, had the music book, had a book with Laura's writings in Missouri and a biography of her. Have no idea where they all went to. I am really loving all the extra information that has been supplied on this thread! As a child I actually argued with the librarian over the placement of the books in the "fiction" section, because since Laura was real, surely her books were 100% fact!

Compared to a lot of the so-called memoirs that are on the market, I'd say Laura didn't fudge with the truth any more than a lot of them. For an example, read Augusten Burrough's "Running with Scissors" and then look up the real family portrayed in the book.

[Mythicwings]

Even though she glossed over a lot in the children's books she wrote (and that's understandable) there are some big hints in those books about the levels of deprivation she endured as both a child and an adult. She clearly is describing famine in The Long Winter, her mother trying to guard the girls against being raped in By the Shores of Silver Lake, her first teaching job that included boarding with a completely unhinged woman, not to mention the fire that burned down her own house and the death of her infant son in The First Four Years.

The Little House book series is far from completely sanitized, which explains why a lot of fundies do not allow their children to read past Little House In the Big Woods. They would then expose their daughters to the fact that on the American frontier, there was no such thing as a stay at home daughter, women had to take work they found distasteful (Ma Ingalls running a boarding house), and disease would blind your children or strike you down so hard you couldn't get out of bed to care for them (malaria). Oh, and you "courted" by going completely unchaperone with a man on buggy rides or being dropped off at your place of employment by said man. Don't know, but I definitely understood this woman had a very rough childhood just from the childrens' books, and when I got older and did more research on her, the full story of Pa, Mary, and how hard it was for the Wilders to establish a livelihood only made me respect her more.

It has been confusing to me, also, why some fundies love the Little House books for their kids, when they have so many messages that are against the doctrine of most fundies.

I was obsessed with the Little House books when I was about maybe 9-11 or 12, and did love how much she loved and appreciated her family (especially after living with the nutcase while teaching) but I never felt like it was sanitized. The SHOW definitely was - I hated the show so much! When my mother first told me that they were making a movie and then a show about it I was sooooo excited, and then really disappointed. It was like the show had nothing to do with them, just used their names. And I got sick of all the catastrophes on the show. In the books, there were huge hardships but they were hardships they could fight against, and whether or not they succeeded they still survived. On the show, the hardships were just unmitigated disasters from hell - Michael Landon had a real problem with that, like a sickness, he did the same thing when he got his hands on scriptwriting for Bonanza.

Then later I read at least one book of what was left out of the books, like their time at the hotel, but it didn't seem like life was any worse than she had painted, really. It always seemed to me like several people have already said - Laura had a strong sense of herself, with feminists views even though she wasn't actively searching to express that (like when she told Almanzo that she didn't care about voting) and she fought hard to survive. And she had strong opinions on some things like stupid people (the preacher she was forced to listen to :D ).

I got a clear impression when I was a kid that Laura was pretty liberal - not in today's precise definition, if there IS a precise definition :D but you know what I mean, she thought most obstinate views were just dumb and ignorant. But my homeschooled nieces have always been encouraged to read the books, the fundies do act like it is some kind of idyllic time in their terms, but they just fire out constant anti-fundie-lifestyle messages. But, that is contrary as most things fundie, so I'm not going to try to figure it out :lol:

[Sister Mozz]

As a side question, how many posts do I need to be able to send a private message? Another reason I signed up is that during the course of reading this thread I realized that I might be related to one of the posters! So I'd like to send a PM to ask some questions instead of sounding lame by asking publically.

You must have 75 posts before you can use the PM feature. How very interesting, though, if you are related!

[karupin]

This thread made me download and whip through the Little House books-I had forgotten how much I loved them as a kid. As I was reading Little Town/Happy Golden Years, I couldn't have wished more that some of the fundie girls could read beyond Big Woods. Laura works for several different people, solves problems, asks her parents for advice but they dong solve everything for her-not to mention that she is completely unchaperoned when she goes out with Alamanzo, and her parents have no problems with this!

[LucySnowe]

I have just remembered that I had a bonnet - my mother was, thankfully, very much into sewing - and a blue prairie-style dress. And a stuffed bulldog (which I still have in a box somewhere) which I named...Jack!

Edited because I called my mother a sewer, lol.

[PennySycamore]

There's one thing that no one mentioned about the LHOTP tv show that always bugged the heck out of me: their lamp chimneys were BLACK with soot. No decent housewife would allow her lamps chimneys to get that dirty! It reduced the amount of light the lamp put out.