Seventeen - Not the Magazine - Bateseseses Threads!

[formergothardite]

Erin never said she wasn't involved with IBLP.  And since she too is still helping promote IBLP, I'm going to put her along with Alyssa firmly in the still with the cult camp.

Dear Tumblr person, get back to us when Erin stops allowing her image and the image of her child to be used to advertise for IBLP. 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Casserole said:

And that at all of her siblings' weddings, Erin Bates has played instead of her. If my sister was a pianist, I think her playing at my wedding would be a beautiful gift... 

Jana was s bridesmaid in those weddings so she couldn't play the piano. None of the older Duggar sisters could. 

[actuallyjessica]

3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Erin never said she wasn't involved with IBLP.  And since she too is still helping promote IBLP, I'm going to put her along with Alyssa firmly in the still with the cult camp.

Dear Tumblr person, get back to us when Erin stops allowing her image and the image of her child to be used to advertise for IBLP. 

 

To the average TV viewer who knows nothing about the family outside of the show (which has yet to mention any affiliation with IBLP) - what do you think happens? They see a seemingly happy family, and immediately they think to replicate their lifestyle?

I'm not asking this for you to jump on my ass, I'm just very curious as to the ways they can 'hook' someone into a religious cult, and I'm after your insight.

[formergothardite]

To the average TV viewer they make a dangerous belief system seem harmless which makes them less likely to believe it when presented with stories of abuse. I've seen this among people I know who don't want to think the victims are liars before they would believe that this family is a liar. One response I got when I provided someone who has known me a long time with all the info about IBLP/ATI was "All I know is that this is a good Christian family and people like to make up stuff to attack good Christians." Now imagine what it is like for the woman who Gil tried to manipulate into meeting with her abuser in private when people don't want to believe her because this family makes the cult look nice? This show hurts people. This family hurts people. 

The victims have already been hurt by this terrible belief system, and now since people like the Bates make it look nice, they are hurt again when people refuse to believe them. Yes, some families have joined IBLP due to people like the Duggars and Bates, but the real damage is that they are taking something evil and making people think it is good. 

Their goal isn't necessarily to hook people into joining(I'm sure they would love that, though), but to hook people into accepting that their beliefs are not bad and that the victims are liars. 

 

[mstee]

The Bates posted a pic of one of the younger girls on IG (not sure which girl) and it was just a normal, cute pic. And people started commenting that she needed a training bra and why doesn't Kelly have her girls wear bras. It was so wildly inappropriate! They have since deleted the pic. I guess people on the internet never cease to amaze me. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, mstee said:

The Bates posted a pic of one of the younger girls on IG (not sure which girl) and it was just a normal, cute pic. And people started commenting that she needed a training bra and why doesn't Kelly have her girls wear bras. It was so wildly inappropriate! They have since deleted the pic. I guess people on the internet never cease to amaze me. 

Oh my god! What the fuck? They are commenting about little girls' breasts on Instagram?!? People are nuts. Eww.

[THERetroGamerNY]

"... Denounced it on social media..." Um, no. She did no such thing. She merely gave a vague comment.

"People can have awful beliefs and not be awful people." I think an entire psychology paper could be written on the split-personality improbability of this claim. O_o

"Sit in a forum all day and complain." A forum is a piece of software on a server someplace. Nobody is sitting "in" such a thing, much less all day. Insults have to make actual sense before they are, you know, insulting.

[Nerthe]

10 hours ago, mstee said:

The Bates posted a pic of one of the younger girls on IG (not sure which girl) and it was just a normal, cute pic. And people started commenting that she needed a training bra and why doesn't Kelly have her girls wear bras. It was so wildly inappropriate! They have since deleted the pic. I guess people on the internet never cease to amaze me. 

What is a training bra? 

Never heard about these.. 

[Melissa1977]

11 hours ago, mstee said:

The Bates posted a pic of one of the younger girls on IG (not sure which girl) and it was just a normal, cute pic. And people started commenting that she needed a training bra and why doesn't Kelly have her girls wear bras. It was so wildly inappropriate! They have since deleted the pic. I guess people on the internet never cease to amaze me. 

It's weird how people can snark about a MINOR physical appearance. And it's gross and disturbing (and probably illegal) talking about a MINOR breasts! Being in a reality show doesn't justify this.

53 minutes ago, Nerthe said:

What is a training bra? 

Never heard about these.. 

Bras for young girls. These bras are similar to sport bras (kind of T-shirts) to keep breasts flat.

[mstee]

The people I saw commenting were women. Do they not remember how awkward puberty was? I know I was embarrassed when I started growing breasts. The thought of people commenting on it, let alone on the Internet, would've crushed me. And it's disgusting that they feel it's okay to post and talk about it like that. She's just a little girl. I was pretty horrified to see that. 

[VelociRapture]

@msteeThat's the risk you run when you decide to put your family in the public eye while proclaiming your oh so modest standards for attire - you get people "helpfully" commenting on your children's appearance and attire in a manner that's not creepy or inappropriate in any way, shape, or form at all.  

The Duggar kids have been the target of this shit for years too. It's creepy as fuck. Seriously. Their fans need to learn what boundaries are and the Bateses (and Duggars) need to remember what the price is for selling your children's privacy for money and fame. 

Only one I feel bad for here is the (thankfully) unnamed child in question. She is likely not legally capable of consenting to being on the show and has no control of what images of her go out into the world. Poor kid shouldn't be subjected to critiques or "helpful" unsolicited advice from strange creepy people online.

[JordynDarby5]

16 hours ago, formergothardite said:

To the average TV viewer they make a dangerous belief system seem harmless which makes them less likely to believe it when presented with stories of abuse. I've seen this among people I know who don't want to think the victims are liars before they would believe that this family is a liar. One response I got when I provided someone who has known me a long time with all the info about IBLP/ATI was "All I know is that this is a good Christian family and people like to make up stuff to attack good Christians." Now imagine what it is like for the woman who Gil tried to manipulate into meeting with her abuser in private when people don't want to believe her because this family makes the cult look nice? This show hurts people. This family hurts people. 

The victims have already been hurt by this terrible belief system, and now since people like the Bates make it look nice, they are hurt again when people refuse to believe them. Yes, some families have joined IBLP due to people like the Duggars and Bates, but the real damage is that they are taking something evil and making people think it is good. 

Their goal isn't necessarily to hook people into joining(I'm sure they would love that, though), but to hook people into accepting that their beliefs are not bad and that the victims are liars. 

 

I'm surprised how people don't see the that stuff when they watch the show. For me watching the Duggars show is what made me notice the weird stuff about them and go research more about them. Sure, I heard about them on TV then decided to watch an episode the first one I watched was when Jordyn born with my mom. Sure there was a lot of cute stuff, the kids were cute, watching them pick out a name and baby shopping, but then one of the little boys was dancing and they had to explain the little boy wasn't really dancing. Naturally, my mom and I thought was a little weird.  So then we went back to watch the first special we were both shocked by Michelle describing handing off her baby to a daughter, watching all of the work the girls did which was everything. It was right there in the first special they weren't hiding it. It only took two episodes to so many things wrong with this family and we regret it took a second episode before going online to learn more about their family and their church. They show their belief system in the show. The daughters have to do everything and are only allowed to grow up to be  wives and mothers, the kids are undereducation, and speaking out against gays and etc. And yet people kept watching, it became a popular show. How did that happen? How do people not see it when they watch episode after episode?

[GreyhoundFan]

5 hours ago, Nerthe said:

What is a training bra? 

Never heard about these.. 

It's a bra designed for girls who are in the early stages of puberty. They are smaller than regular bras. Frequently, they are called bralettes. Wikipedia has a handy description.

[formergothardite]

 

@JordynDarby5, IMO, people want to believe that there is this "ideal" family out there and so they willfully ignore all the evidence that these families aren't as happy and wonderful as they make themselves appear. The Bates do a better job at hiding the crazy and convincing people that they are just a normal Christian family that has a lot of kids and the girls wear skirts. Now that the Duggars have fallen out of favor, people want to see the Bates as being less extreme as the Duggars and so they just ignore that they are way deeper in the cult and have hurt way more people. 

[Melissa1977]

@JordynDarby5 I feel the same way. Even if you ignore religious fundamentalism and political views, that are somehow hide in TV, there's still a lot wrong in these families. I mean, even if you are naif and believe they're soooo happy, how can you ignore that these mothers are not parenting at all? There's one episode where a toddler Jordyn was afraid in the dentist and asked Jessa (who was NOT conforting her) "can I have my mummy today?". I tell you something, it's one of the saddest things I've listened. How can anybody think that this is a nice childhood? Or when they left the sick preemie Josie with Jana and went abroad! And I could follow for hours.

But most people just see what they want to see. 

[nokidsmom]

I completely agree that now that the Duggars have fallen out of favor, some fans really need to have their "wholesome Christian family" fix and the Bateseseses fit the bill, especially since they appear less extreme.   It doesn't seem to occur to them that 1)  they are just better at looking that way and 2) that the lifestyle they promote is not normal, healthy and sustainable.  And it's the sustainable part that played a part in the Duggar and Batesesese parents going on reality TV.   They need the money, at least at first.  It seems that the fans don't figure out why these people go on TV in the first place.   That's the very first hint that it's not all great and wonderful for these families, they have to exploit their own kids for money.  

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

On the topic of parenting, far from me to pass judgement because we all do the best we can there, but there is just NO WAY that parents of 19 children can give each child the individual attention he/she needs. There are just so many hours in the day, and even if (big IF) they were wonder-parents, super-involved, wonderful people, I don't see how it would be humanly possible! This is perhaps the top thing that angers me about Duggar and Bates equally - popping out kids as a chore just to parade to the world how holier-than-thou they are, forget about actually caring for the children. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

20 minutes ago, Shouldabeenacowboy said:

On the topic of parenting, far from me to pass judgement because we all do the best we can there, but there is just NO WAY that parents of 19 children can give each child the individual attention he/she needs. There are just so many hours in the day, and even if (big IF) they were wonder-parents, super-involved, wonderful people, I don't see how it would be humanly possible! This is perhaps the top thing that angers me about Duggar and Bates equally - popping out kids as a chore just to parade to the world how holier-than-thou they are, forget about actually caring for the children. 

I agree. Even before I knew all about the Duggar and Bates families and their beliefs, I always assumed the children didn't get enough one on one time with their parents. It just seems impossible for anyone to get enough time with each child when you have 19 of them. There's only 24 hours in a day and you have to sleep for at least 6 of those hours to function. Plus the tons of cleaning, cooking, and organizing that would go into a household that big. You would have to be really really good or really really bad to get any attention.

[frugalhousewife]

Went through the process of creating an account because I had a Bates sighting this morning and no one I know IRL cares about this crap except me!

Gil and Carlin Bates were in a TJ Maxx...in Sacramento. No other kids, just the two of them. Carlin is very pretty, natch, and those Bates girls have totally nailed not looking remotely fundie (she looked age-appropriate and fashionable like they do on the show, no more frumpers for them!). The only reason I noticed them was because Gil was in a full suit and tie on a Tuesday at 10am, which seemed odd given the context. I think they bought a dress for her or something. I kept my distance because I already felt incredibly creepy for noticing it was them.

My first thought was potential a courtship, or "special friendship" in the works, or whatever they're calling it now, though I'm not sure if Carlin is 18 yet. Not to shit on Sacramento, a city I have very recently moved to and know very little about (hence having the time to troll discount department stores in the middle of the day on a weekday), but why else would they be here? And I seem to recall a few of the Bates kids along with Gil and Kelly visiting San Francisco sometime since the UPtv show began, which is a far more scenic destination not too far from Sacramento.

Anyway, that's all I've got. Thoroughly uninteresting, but needed to share, even anonymously on a message board I lurk on....

[PianoPounder]

8 minutes ago, frugalhousewife said:

My first thought was potential a courtship, or "special friendship" in the works, or whatever they're calling it now, though I'm not sure if Carlin is 18 yet.

She turned 18 a few months ago.

[Larry]

29 minutes ago, frugalhousewife said:

Went through the process of creating an account because I had a Bates sighting this morning and no one I know IRL cares about this crap except me!

Gil and Carlin Bates were in a TJ Maxx...in Sacramento. No other kids, just the two of them. Carlin is very pretty, natch, and those Bates girls have totally nailed not looking remotely fundie (she looked age-appropriate and fashionable like they do on the show, no more frumpers for them!). The only reason I noticed them was because Gil was in a full suit and tie on a Tuesday at 10am, which seemed odd given the context. I think they bought a dress for her or something. I kept my distance because I already felt incredibly creepy for noticing it was them.

My first thought was potential a courtship, or "special friendship" in the works, or whatever they're calling it now, though I'm not sure if Carlin is 18 yet. Not to shit on Sacramento, a city I have very recently moved to and know very little about (hence having the time to troll discount department stores in the middle of the day on a weekday), but why else would they be here? And I seem to recall a few of the Bates kids along with Gil and Kelly visiting San Francisco sometime since the UPtv show began, which is a far more scenic destination not too far from Sacramento.

Anyway, that's all I've got. Thoroughly uninteresting, but needed to share, even anonymously on a message board I lurk on....

You could be onto something here! Someone somewhere (can't remember if it was here or not) noticed that Carlin seems to have an instagram account, so I looked and it's private but Zach and Whitney are following her so it must be legit.

[19 cats and counting]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I agree. Even before I knew all about the Duggar and Bates families and their beliefs, I always assumed the children didn't get enough one on one time with their parents. It just seems impossible for anyone to get enough time with each child when you have 19 of them. There's only 24 hours in a day and you have to sleep for at least 6 of those hours to function. Plus the tons of cleaning, cooking, and organizing that would go into a household that big. You would have to be really really good or really really bad to get any attention.

There was one fundie family (Kellers?) who only got an hour of 1/1 time with their parents each week and had to schedule it.  IIRC in the same article also said that they also can't confide their feelings to their siblings too.  Can explain why Anna's keeping sweet and how she bottles everything up.

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

There was one fundie family (Kellers?) who only got an hour of 1/1 time with their parents each week and had to schedule it.  IIRC in the same article also said that they also can't confide their feelings to their siblings too.  Can explain why Anna's keeping sweet and how she bottles everything up.

How have I never heard this?! That is so fucked up. That's a great way to screw your kids up. Or drive them directly out of your cult. 

[19 cats and counting]

@JermajestyDuggar here is the source (right after Joshgate 2.0)

http://www.people.com/article/anna-duggar-all-about-josh-duggar-wife

[frugalhousewife]

16 minutes ago, Larry said:

You could be onto something here! Someone somewhere (can't remember if it was here or not) noticed that Carlin seems to have an instagram account, so I looked and it's private but Zach and Whitney are following her so it must be legit.

Interesting...instagram does seem to be the first sign that these girls are a-courtin'

Pure speculation, of course, but I would be fascinated to watch a Bates girl marry a guy and move to Godless California. That would be a culture shift. Though there's a horrific baptist church located here where Steve Anderson occassionally preaches, so I'm sure they'd find like-minded people...