Raised Quiverfull: Homeschooling

[emmiedahl]

This makes me feel better. I had visions of a homeschooling mom not knowing basic math. I loved homeschooling. While my children are in public school now, I feel it changed the way I felt about their education. I feel like I am still their main teacher, kwim? Public schools can only do so much but I am still the one in charge of making sure they are well-educated citizens and generally good people.

I have taught all of my children to read so far, for example. I think my love of reading is contagious and that the kids all love it so much because they learned it from a teacher who was passionate about it.

I would estimate that 50% of homeschooling parents are amazing teachers and the other half are dismal ones. The ones doing it for religious reasons make up most of the dismal ones. The mothers who were and are still good friends of mine are passionate about their child's education and will spare nothing to give them the right academic and social experiences. Like clibbyjo, for example.

[Jamanda]

This thread had me questioning my mathematical knowledge too! Google is my friend (phew).

For anyone else who wonders Exponents are things like 2^3 (2 to the power of 3 or 2x2x2)

Here (Australia) we call those indicies or powers.

Graphing y=e^x gives the exponential function, hence (I guess?) the use of the word exponents by some English speakers.

The distributive property I don't think has a name here. Its things like expanding brackets in algebra a(b + c) = ab + ac, and breaking up bigger multiples into smallers one that are easier to do in your head like 13 x 203 = 13x200 + 13x3.

[Elle]

My daughter will learn maths if she wants to, and if not, she'll probably function as well in society as my husband who spent 18 years at school and can't add 2+2.

You have just demonstrated why I'm against unschooling (versus child-led homeschooling - using a child's natural interests to decide the curriculum but still mandating that the child learns something). Your daughter will learn only what she wants to, and you're fine if she never learns any math. You are setting your daughter up to be a failure. If she doesn't learn even basic math, then how will she ever be able to support herself? If you intend her to be someone's house servant, how can she double recipes if she doesn't learn that 1 1/2 cups plus 1 1/2 cups is three cups? If you intend for her to get a job at some point, by not enforcing deadlines or anything on her, she will not do well in the work force. Like it or not, part of the adult world is dong things we don't want to do on someone else's timeline, and this usually is going to involve at least some math.

[mirele]

Thwacking on people because they don't come up to your level of math is really inappropriate.

I failed Algebra II in high school. I got hung up on imaginary numbers and never got past it. When I went to university, one could take either math or science classes. I'd placed out of biology and zoology, so filled up my requirements with astronomy and did just fine. I also went to law school. I'm not saying this is the best thing, but I am saying that some people just have problems with higher levels of math. I can still work out mathematical equations in my head, make change, figure percents and check to make sure the data I'm being handed to review and present isn't totally off the mark.

[Patsy]

Yep, also Australian and I had to google distributive property. I've never heard a name for it.

IDGAF that terra is okay with their level of maths education, great, good for you, but I do have a problem saying that it is therefore okay to leave any child that poorly educated and with that few opportunities. 'Well I never ended up actually wanting the things that weren't possible for me' is like saying 'my parents beat me with a strap and I'm okay!'

[Patsy]

oh, and mirele, I also failed some higher maths, and made up for it later :) so yes, I agree, you can do without, or you can do bridging courses, but when you've set up your child's education to end at 12 and from then on be babysitting and managing the house, the number of bridging courses required stacks up, y'know?

[emmiedahl]

Thwacking on people because they don't come up to your level of math is really inappropriate.

I failed Algebra II in high school. I got hung up on imaginary numbers and never got past it. When I went to university, one could take either math or science classes. I'd placed out of biology and zoology, so filled up my requirements with astronomy and did just fine. I also went to law school. I'm not saying this is the best thing, but I am saying that some people just have problems with higher levels of math. I can still work out mathematical equations in my head, make change, figure percents and check to make sure the data I'm being handed to review and present isn't totally off the mark.

No one is thwacking based on math ability.

I have had to struggle for every grade in math and physics. Struggle as in hours and hours of doing the same equation over and over. I am not good at math!

But to limit your children's career choices because you cannot be bothered to teach them higher math is a whole 'nother thing.

[LIzzieB]

Hello FunkyChicken - fellow Adelaidean here, I went to Adelaide Uni and UniSA, and my partner is a Flinders grad.

Agree with the other Australians here that I was a little confused by "exponent" and "distributive properties" too. I looked them up and reassured myself that I do know what these are. I hope Terranova has the same difficulty of terminology, because I use these concepts regularly, particularly distributive properties, despite not working in a field that requires day to day use of mathematics. I mean, if I am tripling a recipe which calls for 270g of flour, without thinking about it, I know that I can very quickly work out 250 x 3 + 20 x 3. Surely these sorts of ideas would be very much relevant to day-to-day life for all young fundie women!

Despite being a relatively intelligent individual, I remember not understanding the point of algebra when it was first introduced when I was 11 or 12. I remember doing endless exercises of "a + b = a + b" and "2a - a = a" without being told why. I asked the (not very good) teacher what the point of algebra was, she reacted negatively, thinking that I was being provocative or rebellious, when I was actually genuinely curious. It was only when we had a substitute teacher the following week that I felt confident to ask again. Her response was great:

"Well, if I had two apples, and asked you how many more I needed to get 6, what would your answer be?" I confidently said, "4!" She said, "Well, in algebra, we express that idea as x + 2 = 6, where we use x to define the unknown number. We can use algebra to find out any value we don't know." The penny dropped. :o "Oh, that's really cool!" If I had just been given a textbook and told to work at the exercises as the first teacher made us do, I may never have made the connection. The fact that I had access to a teacher who fully understood (and loved) the concepts was what made the difference.

Despite this, I never really felt any love for pure maths. I scraped through it in Year 11 and swapped it for applied maths in Year 12. I did, however, learn abstract reasoning skills that I can apply to many areas of my life. I think that every child, public schooled, private schooled, homeschooled or unschooled, should receive a minimum education in maths, their mother tongue, a foreign language, science and music and the arts, whether the child is interested or not, ideally by educated individuals with a love for their subjects. They can then build on those concepts as they get older. It's really upsetting to see people who've missed out on the basics and struggling.

[terranova]

Hello FunkyChicken - fellow Adelaidean here, I went to Adelaide Uni and UniSA, and my partner is a Flinders grad.

Agree with the other Australians here that I was a little confused by "exponent" and "distributive properties" too. I looked them up and reassured myself that I do know what these are. I hope Terranova has the same difficulty of terminology, because I use these concepts regularly, particularly distributive properties, despite not working in a field that requires day to day use of mathematics. I mean, if I am tripling a recipe which calls for 270g of flour, without thinking about it, I know that I can very quickly work out 250 x 3 + 20 x 3. Surely these sorts of ideas would be very much relevant to day-to-day life for all young fundie women!

Hi LizzieB, yup, we don't have the same terminology either. I understand the concepts and agree with your baking example, that's how I'd do it in my head. But I learned how to do that not in school or through a book, but by doing. Same as I hope my daughter will!

[apple1]

No one is thwacking based on math ability.

I have had to struggle for every grade in math and physics. Struggle as in hours and hours of doing the same equation over and over. I am not good at math!

But to limit your children's career choices because you cannot be bothered to teach them higher math is a whole 'nother thing.

(At the risk of being yelled at for hand slapping) See bold. If a homeschooling parent is weak in the area of math (or science, or reading/writing/grammar or whatever), (s)he needs to find an alternative teacher for her/his homeschooled children. Tutoring/another person/whatever. Not just say oh well and leave the children without appropriate education in that subject.

I have to say (because it is more visible on blogs/forum posts/etc) I see people regularly on the internet with abominable writing/grammar/communication skills who are bragging about homeschooling.

This is not a blanket indictment of homeschooling. Every parent should, according to his/her own best judgment, see that his/her kids get a decent education.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Any idea about an overabundance of academic jobs in Australia? :eusa-whistle:

I have no experience with homeschooling, but I think there is a LOT to be said for approach - honestly, when it comes to learning, it's probably the most important thing, more so than environment or even intelligence. So I can imagine that if done right, homeschooling can do wonders because an engaged parent will understand their kid's particular needs and present topics in a way that will grab them.

I suck at math. I was always a humanities person. I was forced to work really hard at it, and I did. I worked my butt off. I still suck at anything more than basic algebra. I wonder if I could have gotten more into it - and science - if it had been taught differently, and not at the point of a gun, figuratively speaking, like it was in my public school (all about pressure and fear and intimidation in regards to studying and getting a good grade, and very little about how AWESOME science is.) I love what I am doing how (getting an advanced degree in humanities) but let's be honest, I would have many more opportunities in science. I am all about reading "popular science" journals and keeping up with discoveries now, but in school science was all Bunsen Burners and memorizing the parts of a microscope.

My concern about letting a kid learn what they want to is that it's not a realistic reflection of life. I'm not one to advocate being hard on a kid just to show them that "life isn't fair", but at the same time, even if they pursue a path they love, there will be things they don't want to do along the way and small skills they will have to pick up to get to the big picture. Their education should reflect that, and I see the opportunity for a kid to get excited about something like learning French, but getting discouraged and quitting from having to practice verb conjugations - and then moving on to the next thing, etc., without a pattern.

I have experienced a version of this - after high school and 18 years of being forced to learn things I hated, I went to an alternative school where, after some very minimal requirements, one could spend four years studying whatever one wanted. I got a VERY specialized education in Eastern European literature and languages and in creative writing, but I'm still filling gaps in world history, science, etc. So even at 18, even a mature and intelligent student is not always the best judge of what they need to learn, though they should certainly be directing. At present I'm a bigger advocate of the St. John's College system. http://www.sjca.edu/

[clibbyjo]

You have just demonstrated why I'm against unschooling (versus child-led homeschooling - using a child's natural interests to decide the curriculum but still mandating that the child learns something). Your daughter will learn only what she wants to, and you're fine if she never learns any math. You are setting your daughter up to be a failure. If she doesn't learn even basic math, then how will she ever be able to support herself? If you intend her to be someone's house servant, how can she double recipes if she doesn't learn that 1 1/2 cups plus 1 1/2 cups is three cups? If you intend for her to get a job at some point, by not enforcing deadlines or anything on her, she will not do well in the work force. Like it or not, part of the adult world is dong things we don't want to do on someone else's timeline, and this usually is going to involve at least some math.

Who cares if you are against unschooling Elle? Then don't do it. You know damn well I am an unschooler and you also know my kids are constantly challenged. I have posted countless examples of things my kids do. You don't understand what unschooling is Elle.It is certainly not laziness on my part as you seem to think. Get yourself a book by John Holt and LEARN something about unschooling. Seeing someone on Dr. Phil say there are unschoolers and they let their kids run wild is not unschooling.

For the 1000th time I will give a good math example so maybe you will finally understand. When my son was 12, he was interested in archeology. I found the one archeological program geared for teens in the US.(I was told the only one) and we got involved. For 2 years we worked the digs (run my a real archeologist, a real dig in which our finds were going to be submitted etc...) The kids had to learn how to use a plumb bob, they had to use algebra and geometry to map out the topography of the area,taking tiny measurements that took forever. They made/measured grid squares for which sections we were working in etc... This kind of work is usually done by grad students or the archeologists themselves. Our archeologist wanted the kids to know how to do it and he taught them math in a way they learned and did it correctly because it was for something they were interested in doing. Ask one of the archeologists on this board how much math is involved on a dig. We worked 2 digs for 2 years.My son put higher math into use more times than I can count.He knows math because he was taught it in a way that followed his interest.

Do I feel the math he learned from 12-14 was enough for his whole life? Of course not. At 16, is now into computers. He has taught himself several computer languages and programs (eek, math involved) because he is interested. He designs video games for fun. He will watch Khan Academy or do Teaching Textbooks for math because he knows he needs it for computers. He is doing math everyday because he knows he needs it. Is that clear enough that unschooling works? I wanted to brag about him talking college classes this summer, but all the beginning computer classes he was going to take were not offered. I'll probably brag in the fall.

I know about 6 unschoolers who are now adults. All 6 went to college. One is a professional ballerina and formed his own dance company. His sisters follow in his footsteps. The others are still in college,one got a full scholarship based on her writing. I have only seen success with unschooling. :clap:

P.S. All 3 of my kids have mandatory testing by law and all 3 have never tested below 96% overall.(I think someone once got a 92% in one subject, but I can't remember which one or the subject) :whistle:

[LIzzieB]

Hi LizzieB, yup, we don't have the same terminology either. I understand the concepts and agree with your baking example, that's how I'd do it in my head. But I learned how to do that not in school or through a book, but by doing. Same as I hope my daughter will!

I'm glad to hear that it's a mix up in terminology. Will you, however, be ensuring that your daughter will have opportunities not only to explore these concepts in real life, but to also to explore them abstractly too? And if you don't have the skills or experience to teach it to her, will you find someone who can?

To me, the best type of homeschooling is done by cooperatives or by seeking out specialists as in Clibby's example. Where one parent lacks the skills in one subject, another parent with expertise or a community member can take over lessons for the kids involved. I think when parents limit themselves to just teaching their own children and restrict them to their family circle, you're really limiting their education. No parent will have a sufficiently in-depth knowledge of every subject to take their kid all the way through high school. It takes a village to raise a child...

[nolongerIFBx]

If you want to educate your child at home it needs to be a priority and you need to put in an effort.

LIKE. LIKE. SO VERY MUCH THIS! I was homeschooled and knew many others who were. And in some of those families, the parent just could not understand how my mom had time to school 4 children in 4 different grades preschool through highschool. The difference was that in our house school came first. It got done before chores, or grocery shopping, or any outside activities. In their homes (often), schooling was just another thing on their daily list and if it didn't get done, well it just got added to things to do tomorrow. You have to make a plan, and you have to stick to it (okay, exceptions should be allowed, but the child works to get ahead or to make up when those occur). I admit that what was most lacking was science skills (like labs) but I think that strides have been made in making those things available to homeschoolers that weren't over 20 years ago.

Yes, I had to take remedial algebra. And I made high A's (Let's hope that continues as I tackle College Algebra this summer). It wasn't that I hadn't been taught algebra in homeschool but that I had hated it soooo much that I blocked it out as one would a traumatic experience, LOL. But I was still taught exponents. Not sure about the distributive properties. Still between the four of us we have one unaccredited bachelors and one un accredited associates (we were/are fundies after all), three accredited bachelors degrees, one working sporadically on his masters, one intending to go for his masters and possibly PhD once his school loans are paid down, and one (yes, me, how'd you guess?) plugging my way through my bachelors while working full time at a university.

I hate when people collectively criticize homeschool, but recognize that not all children get the education that we did. It does have to be a priority.

[xDreamerx]

Elle~I agree with you. I'm not in favour in 'unschooling'. I don't think children should dictate the pace and type of education they receive. There ought to be standards. I understand that parents who do it have good intentions and try very earnestly to give their children well rounded, complete educations, but I question whether this is truly possible in an unschooling environment. It seems to bend to the whims of the child and why? There are certain things they are going to have to learn, even if they don't like it or find it uninteresting. Such is life. I worry that gives the impression that children can simply cherry pick what they wish to know and leave the rest. What happened to being challenged? To adversity? Will they avoid obstacles or things they find difficult or not to their taste? Some of my best memories of my education life, are those times when I was able to do something difficult and do it well. There was healthy sense of competition, a desire to rise to expectations and exceed them. I worry that unschooling would create unambitious children who are content to just stay where they are.

I have a question as well. Here, GEDs and even online courses are looked upon less favourably than traditional schooling. They traditionally warn students not to go that route because it might hurt their chances at university. When I was high school I took a creative writing course and was disappointed with my B+ and my school wouldn't let me retake it for a higher mark so I took it again through a virtual learning course and raised my mark that way. But my counselor even cautioned me against doing that because he worried it might look bad. Do they weigh GEDs and homeschooling the same way they would regular schooling in the US?

[ladidah]

Do they weigh GEDs and homeschooling the same way they would regular schooling in the US?

GEDs: Definitely not.

Online courses (even from accredited, nonprofit universities) are often regarded with suspicion.

Homeschooling: If you're going to college, it depends on the college and also on whether there's accreditation for homeschooling in your state. Technically, colleges and universities are no longer allowed to impose different requirements on homeschooled applicants than on traditionally schooled applicants. However, in general, serious homeschoolers in states without accreditation programs have to do a lot of extra work (standardized tests, dual enrollment courses, etc.) to prove that they've done good K-12 schooling. The usual college recommendation letters can help with that, too.

Additionally, blanket prejudice against homeschooling in many college admissions offices has been decreasing over the last decade, as admissions officers see good homeschoolers succeed in their college programs.

[ElphabaGalinda]

Who cares if you are against unschooling Elle? Then don't do it. You know damn well I am an unschooler and you also know my kids are constantly challenged. I have posted countless examples of things my kids do. You don't understand what unschooling is Elle.It is certainly not laziness on my part as you seem to think. Get yourself a book by John Holt and LEARN something about unschooling. Seeing someone on Dr. Phil say there are unschoolers and they let their kids run wild is not unschooling.

For the 1000th time I will give a good math example so maybe you will finally understand. When my son was 12, he was interested in archeology. I found the one archeological program geared for teens in the US.(I was told the only one) and we got involved. For 2 years we worked the digs (run my a real archeologist, a real dig in which our finds were going to be submitted etc...) The kids had to learn how to use a plumb bob, they had to use algebra and geometry to map out the topography of the area,taking tiny measurements that took forever. They made/measured grid squares for which sections we were working in etc... This kind of work is usually done by grad students or the archeologists themselves. Our archeologist wanted the kids to know how to do it and he taught them math in a way they learned and did it correctly because it was for something they were interested in doing. Ask one of the archeologists on this board how much math is involved on a dig. We worked 2 digs for 2 years.My son put higher math into use more times than I can count.He knows math because he was taught it in a way that followed his interest.

Do I feel the math he learned from 12-14 was enough for his whole life? Of course not. At 16, is now into computers. He has taught himself several computer languages and programs (eek, math involved) because he is interested. He designs video games for fun. He will watch Khan Academy or do Teaching Textbooks for math because he knows he needs it for computers. He is doing math everyday because he knows he needs it. Is that clear enough that unschooling works? I wanted to brag about him talking college classes this summer, but all the beginning computer classes he was going to take were not offered. I'll probably brag in the fall.

I know about 6 unschoolers who are now adults. All 6 went to college. One is a professional ballerina and formed his own dance company. His sisters follow in his footsteps. The others are still in college,one got a full scholarship based on her writing. I have only seen success with unschooling. :clap:

P.S. All 3 of my kids have mandatory testing by law and all 3 have never tested below 96% overall.(I think someone once got a 92% in one subject, but I can't remember which one or the subject) :whistle:

I wish you had unschooled me. Heck I'm done with school, and I still want you to unschool me! I happen to use you IRL as an example of homeschooling done right, because you are definately doing it the right way, and what you do is what homeschooling should be. I can't wait to see what your children end up doing in college/as adults because I think they're going to do great!

[emmiedahl]

I wish you had unschooled me. Heck I'm done with school, and I still want you to unschool me! I happen to use you IRL as an example of homeschooling done right, because you are definately doing it the right way, and what you do is what homeschooling should be. I can't wait to see what your children end up doing in college/as adults because I think they're going to do great!

clibbyjo is definitely an example of unschooling done right!

[sassycupcake]

GEDs: Definitely not.

Online courses (even from accredited, nonprofit universities) are often regarded with suspicion.

Homeschooling: If you're going to college, it depends on the college and also on whether there's accreditation for homeschooling in your state. Technically, colleges and universities are no longer allowed to impose different requirements on homeschooled applicants than on traditionally schooled applicants. However, in general, serious homeschoolers in states without accreditation programs have to do a lot of extra work (standardized tests, dual enrollment courses, etc.) to prove that they've done good K-12 schooling. The usual college recommendation letters can help with that, too.

Additionally, blanket prejudice against homeschooling in many college admissions offices has been decreasing over the last decade, as admissions officers see good homeschoolers succeed in their college programs.

I worked in admissions for a public university and the way applicants with nontraditional high school backgrounds were treated varied based on their credentials.

GED applicants were basically treated the same as other high school students if they were young. Students under age 21 still had to complete the SAT or ACT and their GED scores were used in lieu of a GPA. Older students who had obviously been in the workforce were given greater leniency and admissions decisions were based only on their GED scores.

Homeschooled applicants were still required to take the SAT or ACT and meet the same course requirements for students graduating from public high schools. Their GPAs were considered, but taken with a grain of salt if they had a handwritten transcript with nothing but A+'s across the board. Homeschooled students with any sort of externally graded work, like accredited online courses or part-time public schooling were treated just like traditionally public schooled students.

Really, the biggest disadvantage that homeschooled students faced was the ability to make up for poor performance with a glowing letter of recommendation. If a student from an accredited school got a teacher (or two, or three) to vouch for their abilities, they were more likely to get in provisionally. A homeschooled student with a letter from Mommy was basically laughed at (and so were the occasional public school kids who sent in Mommy-written letters!) Obviously, this just gave homeschooled students who did part-time work outside the home an even bigger advantage because an objective educator could provide feedback for them.

The university I worked for wasn't in the business of crushing dreams, though. They had a deal with the local community college where students who did not meet the admissions requirements could complete two semesters of selected courses at the CC, automatically gain admission, and have all credits transfer. When we had poorly performing students, whether they were homeschooled, graduated from an accredited school, or had a GED, they usually took this route. It saved them money on tuition (for a year), gave them remedial courses guaranteed to be at their level, and let them ease into university life.

[happy atheist]

How does one afford tutors and classes in violin, French and karate if one is so far behind in math that one cannot get into college or get a decent job? Isn't it a catch 22? You need the education to get the job, but you can't afford the education without the job.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

How does one afford tutors and classes in violin, French and karate if one is so far behind in math that one cannot get into college or get a decent job? Isn't it a catch 22? You need the education to get the job, but you can't afford the education without the job.

You send your kid to the local public school.

I know plenty of people who homeschool for elementary grades but then the kids go to high school (usually because they want to go to high school, as it's where all their friends are going).

Of course if you're ideologically opposed to public schools, that's a problem.

[MaroonMandy]

I know I'm a little late to the party but I just want to say that I think homeschooling, or unschooling, done right is an amazing thing but if you're in over your head you either need to find help or send the kiddos to pubic school.

Also, this is basically how I feel about math...

but I wouldn't resign my kids to settling for my limited knowledge of the subject.

[Talitha Cumi]

This thread had me questioning my mathematical knowledge too! Google is my friend (phew).

For anyone else who wonders Exponents are things like 2^3 (2 to the power of 3 or 2x2x2)

Here (Australia) we call those indicies or powers.

Graphing y=e^x gives the exponential function, hence (I guess?) the use of the word exponents by some English speakers.

The distributive property I don't think has a name here. Its things like expanding brackets in algebra a(b + c) = ab + ac, and breaking up bigger multiples into smallers one that are easier to do in your head like 13 x 203 = 13x200 + 13x3.

Oh thank God. I was freaking out because I didn't know what an exponent was, and I did go to school. Powers I understand. :)

[Veronica Mars Rover]

My Dad was torn. At some point, he wanted us to be smarter than kids from public schools and I think that somewhere he hoped I would have finished high school earlier than most people do, but then again, he took pride in the fact that his daughters were so “biblical.†I never quite understood what he wanted us to do.

This was/is my life. We were homeschooled in the 80s in a fairly remote area, so we were looked on as freaks and weirdos. My parents definitely had something to prove, and I grew up with almost painful ambition to be better than the rest of my peer group. My parents were always pointing out news stories about homeschoolers who got into Ivies or how homeschoolers as a group tested better than public schoolers.

At the same time, I didn't have the tools that I needed to live out that ambition. Both my parents were good teachers when I was young and I had routinely tested in the highest percentiles on state standardized tests, but after the first few years, they lost interest and went the "self-teaching" route, giving me assignments but instructing me to check them myself. I cheated my way through the entirety of what would be considered my high school education and no one ever knew or cared. As I got older, entire months would pass without any mention of my schoolwork, but the emphasis had shifted to courtship, beauty and modesty, and running a house. My parents started too late with the super-fundie stuff, though, so I was never docile or fearful enough to buy into these things. I decided that education was my ticket out, so I planned to get some credits from the local community college and then transfer to a good school, live on my own, and be a physics major.

It was devastating. I went my whole life thinking I was this brilliant super student and suddenly I was in remedial classes at a community college. I figured out pretty quickly that I would never be a physics major, which flummoxed my parents. "If you want to do it," they would always say, "just work hard to learn the material." But at the same time, they didn't offer me any tools to get there. I was so far behind in math and science that I couldn't even begin to teach myself the basics and even the remedial math at the community college felt like a foreign language. But I was wholly responsible "if" I wanted to master these things. So I took only the minimum math and science that I needed to get a degree and then transferred my barely passing grades to another school.

My entire adult life has been spent feeling like I need to be the best at something and then feeling like a complete failure when I don't get there. I wound up graduating from a bottom-tier college and went on to get a graduate (liberal arts) degree from a bottom-tier university. I should be cheering that I got this far, but I frequently feel like I screwed up because I didn't accomplish something more prestigious. I also battled a drinking problem for a long time, which I believe is due to the pressure that comes from believing that I was solely responsible for my failures, because I was a quitter or because I wasn't smart enough.

I'm 30 now and I have a civil relationship with my parents, but they are very disappointed in how I "turned out" and have suggested that if I had been less interested in "the social aspect" of my life--i.e., not had boyfriends, not gotten into feminism, not gone away to college--I might have done more with my life. I don't try to reason with them. Generally I think I did the best I could with a shit hand. Most of the time I believe that.

[Talitha Cumi]

You have just demonstrated why I'm against unschooling (versus child-led homeschooling - using a child's natural interests to decide the curriculum but still mandating that the child learns something). Your daughter will learn only what she wants to, and you're fine if she never learns any math. You are setting your daughter up to be a failure. If she doesn't learn even basic math, then how will she ever be able to support herself? If you intend her to be someone's house servant, how can she double recipes if she doesn't learn that 1 1/2 cups plus 1 1/2 cups is three cups? If you intend for her to get a job at some point, by not enforcing deadlines or anything on her, she will not do well in the work force. Like it or not, part of the adult world is dong things we don't want to do on someone else's timeline, and this usually is going to involve at least some math.

Not to pile on, but what if, once she learned algebra, calculus, trigonometry, whatever-- what if she decided she wanted to go into that field? Be an engineer, an accountant, a statistical analyst, a math professor? Without teaching her the basics, entire fields are closed to her that she won't even know about.