Escaping Feminism

[dairyfreelife]

Mrs. "Cowboy" at Southern Fried Family has written two oh-so-lovely posts about how being a feminist is ungodly.

She "tears up" a comment she got that actually makes many valid points.

Equality is not what we were designed for.

If it were, men would give birth and we would all be asexual.

Everyone is well-aware that men and women have different body shapes. The only thing different internally though is the reproductive organs. Everything else from a spine to a stomach to a liver, men and women are equal. I've seen muscular men with breasts as large as women's. :lol:

"Children are not rewards and trophies."

I challenge one sane person to look at a newborn baby and deny that it is a blessing.

I will agree that they are not "trophies", but they ARE treasures.

Of course most people feel blessed to have a child if they really wanted one, but Children are not things to collect. They aren't things period.

Christians cannot be faulted for teaching their children to follow the path they believe to be right, and to stand up for those truths.

This does not address what the woman is telling you, Heather.

So, yes, debt is related to our character just as the absence of debt is.

I know it is hard to understand in a self-centered "give-it-to-me-now" world,

but the truth is the truth whether you believe it or not.

This was related to debt. Yes, some people do live beyond their means, but assuming debt is related to your character does fly right in the face of those really, really struggling to stay above water in this economy and are nearly drowning without any fault of their own.

Her Part II is short and she's going to do a part three on the following points as well.

The world tells me in order to be a strong woman I must:

~Have a formal higher education

~Work a full-time job

(Because, it takes two incomes in today's world, right?)

~Not submit to any man

~Strive to be equal with men

~Treat men like they are all stupid and ruled by their lust

~Have a nice body, and be willing to show it off

~Walk away from a marriage if *my* expectations are not met

~Have *me* time, because *I* am the most important person to focus on

~Allow the government to have the biggest influence on my kids through the public schools

and many other things that just FLAT aren't true...

These are just some of the lies I bought into...

and at times still struggle with.

this says it all, but why are theses fundies so against higher education. Full-time job means NOT being lazy, which for someone so against debt and others like her all for hard-work and being entitled, they are worse than anyone. They believe they are entitled to not have job or earn a living or anything.

No, women should not have to submit to a man. It's ridiculous. I don't even believe in making my dog submit.

I don't treat men as stupid and ruled by their lust. That's actually something fundies like you tend to believe. After all, isn't that why they fight for modesty? Men are so visual they just can't control themselves around a pretty woman? Rape is her own fault for immodest dress?

No one says you have to look nice. Dress how you want. A nice body varies. Does your husband think you have a nice body, Heather?

Who says someone should walk away from a marriage because expectations aren't met? Most people get married with the intention of staying married. Getting divorced is a lot of time and money.

Me time doesn't mean you are the most important, it's just about you occasionally thinking about yourself and taking a little break. Your husband and children won't hate you for taking a little time for yourself. We all need a breather.

johnseven38.blogspot.com

ETA: To add the word internally to my first statement so there's less confusion about what I was trying to say.

[kpmom]

Same ol' shit. Do any of these fundy bloggers have an original thought?

Sigh, no, the world doesn't tell you these things. We all have the freedom (thank you forefathers AND foremothers) to decide ALL of the above. There's nothing more godly about Mrs. Cowboy's choices than there is about mine.

[DistantStar]

She can't even grasp that equality does not equal sameness. Having the same rights and opportunities is what equality means, not that we must perform the same biological functions. Idiot.

[Dev83]

~Have a formal higher education Well yes, because being educated is important, not just for a career, but to function in society.

~Work a full-time job I don't think a woman has to work outside the home after she has kids in order to be a feminist. I have a few friends that are full on feminist stay-at-home moms. But tey are also educated and could support themselves and their kids if the need ever arose.(Because, it takes two incomes in today's world, right?)

~Not submit to any man I submit to my boss who is a man lol But no, I don't submit to my husband, nor he to me. We both make compromises for each other.~Strive to be equal with men I don't strive to be, I am equal with men. Are there differences between men an women? Sure. But actual biological differences are not nearly as huge as many people would believe. Many differences are a result of culture and socialization.

~Treat men like they are all stupid and ruled by their lust I don't do this AT ALL. I think fundies are the ones that treat men like they are ruled by their lust - they can't even LOOK at a woman without apparently loosing all control. I actually give men credit - I think that they can look at women without having sex with them!

~Have a nice body, and be willing to show it off I don't have a great body, and I don't show it off. Although I have been known to bust out some cleavage on occassion ;)

~Walk away from a marriage if *my* expectations are not met I would not walk away from my marriage easily, but if I was miserable and my husband was ignoring all of my needs and wants and desires, then yes, that is not a happy nor a healthy marriage.~Have *me* time, because *I* am the most important person to focus on You have to take care of yourself to be able to take care of others. It is essential that you do have "me" time on occassion, and that you do have certain things that you do just for yourself. And everyone deserves that - both men and women.

~Allow the government to have the biggest influence on my kids through the public schools Oh no! Not the ebil gubberment! Seriously, do fundies think that kids sit around watching athiest commie indoctrination videos all day long? lol

[margiebargie]

~Treat men like they are all stupid and ruled by their lust I don't do this AT ALL. I think fundies are the ones that treat men like they are ruled by their lust - they can't even LOOK at a woman without apparently loosing all control. I actually give men credit - I think that they can look at women without having sex with them!

Yeah. I find this one really ironic. Fundies are the ones who think all men are animals. Feminists just expect men to behave like decent human beings.

[pomology]

~Treat men like they are all stupid and ruled by their lust

Wait, I thought that's what fundies did...

Only a stupid man would require that his wife submit to him to protect his fragile ego and only fundie women dress so as not to "defraud" men. The rest of us know that it is a man's responsibility to control himself.

[xDreamerx]

I find it funny how they are the ones indoctrinating their children yet they fear the government doing the same thing. In actual fact schools require critical thinking and debate and the development of arguments. Homeschooling (fundie style) only requires circular reasoning. The children don't really learn at all. God forbid children end up thinking they can shape their own destiny as opposed to twiddling their thumbs waiting for God to do it.

[Hane]

Oh, and can these mommybloggers please knock it off with the hard-to-read center-justified type?

[Conuly]

The only thing different though is the reproductive organs. Everything else from a spine to a stomach to a liver, men and women are equal.

Not *entirely* true. Women tend to be smaller than men, and even without cultural problems getting in the way (so imagine we're comparing two people who are about equally active in the same ways) women tend to have less upper body strength (but, if I recall correctly, greater lower body strength) than men do. Certainly women have wider hips - hips aren't a reproductive organ, but the wider hip size is necessary to squeeze the baby out.

However, these are physical differences within a group. They tell you nothing about the size and upper body strength of any individual woman or man, and certainly nothing about their minds, skills, interests, and desires.

I challenge one sane person to look at a newborn baby and deny that it is a blessing.

Ah, note that weasel word "sane". She's going to define it neatly as "people who think exactly like I do" and therefore write out all opinions contrary to hers. No true sane person?

[deelaem]

Treat men like they are all stupid and ruled by their lust

Ok, I do this, but only unless and until they prove me otherwise. :lol:

[patsymae]

I love how "feminist" is used. Actually, it was the 1970s "feminist" movement that fought for stay-at-home mothers to be able to have their contributions recognized. It was "feminists" who fought to have women who were married for 40 years and never worked outside their homes to be able to collect on their husband's Social Security even after the patriarch left them for a younger woman. It was "feminists" who fought to have women in traditionally female occupations such as hairdressing or waitressing (yeah, I'm using old terms) get parity in pay with men of the same educational and occupational level in traditionally "male" jobs such as driving a forklift.

I'm also sick of hearing "debt-free" as if the only reason people go into debt is to run up credit cards buying things like designer clothes or theater tickets. Most people in this country have to go into debt if they want to buy a home -- how many can pay for a home (even if you live like pre-TLC Duggars or Bates in a crappy shack, but you have to put that on land) in cash? How many people can pay for their cars in cash. Does Smuggar refuse to sell cars to people who have to finance them? Even buying used, a decent car can cost around $11,000. Who has that on hand?

These people are arguing against a society that doesn't exist, which they would know if they ever started paying attention to anyone other than themselves.

[Cannelle]

I challenge one sane person to look at a newborn baby and deny that it is a blessing.

The unemployed, uneducated woman who's trying to get away from her abusive husband, whose job is now THAT much more difficult because she has a(nother) baby to care for? She might not feel all that blessed. Maybe even burdened. Most mothers out there love their kids deeply; that doesn't stop in situations like these, but another mouth to feed when you're already struggling isn't really a blessing, any more than buying a new car and having a huge payment when you're already broke is a blessing.

[GolightlyGrrl]

I love how "feminist" is used. Actually, it was the 1970s "feminist" movement that fought for stay-at-home mothers to be able to have their contributions recognized. It was "feminists" who fought to have women who were married for 40 years and never worked outside their homes to be able to collect on their husband's Social Security even after the patriarch left them for a younger woman. It was "feminists" who fought to have women in traditionally female occupations such as hairdressing or waitressing (yeah, I'm using old terms) get parity in pay with men of the same educational and occupational level in traditionally "male" jobs such as driving a forklift.

I'm also sick of hearing "debt-free" as if the only reason people go into debt is to run up credit cards buying things like designer clothes or theater tickets. Most people in this country have to go into debt if they want to buy a home -- how many can pay for a home (even if you live like pre-TLC Duggars or Bates in a crappy shack, but you have to put that on land) in cash? How many people can pay for their cars in cash. Does Smuggar refuse to sell cars to people who have to finance them? Even buying used, a decent car can cost around $11,000. Who has that on hand?

These people are arguing against a society that doesn't exist, which they would know if they ever started paying attention to anyone other than themselves.

This. Fundies are the most insular assholes on the planet. They can't see beyond their own noses. They are thoughtless, arrogant and truly lack empathy for others. I hate these self-absorbed fuckwits.

[kpmom]

This. Fundies are the most insular assholes on the planet. They can't see beyond their own noses. They are thoughtless, arrogant and truly lack empathy for others. I hate these self-absorbed fuckwits.

And no sense at all of history. If they did just a few minutes research on why the feminist movement came to be, they just might be grateful for it, rather than bitching about it every minute of their lives.

[GolightlyGrrl]

And no sense at all of history. If they did just a few minutes research on why the feminist movement came to be, they just might be grateful for it, rather than bitching about it every minute of their lives.

Well, fundies are not the most profound thinkers. They are about as deep as a pane of glass.

[dairyfreelife]

Not *entirely* true. Women tend to be smaller than men, and even without cultural problems getting in the way (so imagine we're comparing two people who are about equally active in the same ways) women tend to have less upper body strength (but, if I recall correctly, greater lower body strength) than men do. Certainly women have wider hips - hips aren't a reproductive organ, but the wider hip size is necessary to squeeze the baby out.

However, these are physical differences within a group. They tell you nothing about the size and upper body strength of any individual woman or man, and certainly nothing about their minds, skills, interests, and desires.

Ah, note that weasel word "sane". She's going to define it neatly as "people who think exactly like I do" and therefore write out all opinions contrary to hers. No true sane person?

I did say they have different body shapes right before the quote you put above. That's obvious and there's a reason for it. Women's shape is to help them birth babies. However, even in a general sense, everything else varies and vital internal organs outside of reproduction are the same. Internally, there's not much difference outside of that. I'm really short (under five feet) and slender (not even 100lbs), but I can open jars at almost equal strength to my father, who's almost a foot taller and weighs quite a bit more. I don't know why that is since you think my size would make that impossible.

As for the last statement, I agree. Sane is her definition. Babies are cute and all and I'm sure many parents DO feel blessed to have a baby and have a family of their own, but as cute as babies are, they are a huge handful and a major responsibility. I know people who've had newborns cry all the time with things like colic and you can see how stressed and exhausted they are to the point they break down themselves because they are tired and overwhelmed. I know people who have said "I love my child more than anything, but I don't like her/him" in moments of stress. Then they hate themselves for even thinking that because children are supposed to be "blessings". I know people who've had to put their child in a crib or playpen and walk away because they were losing it and just needed a break. But people like this think it's evil of a woman to need a break, to take a few moments for herself to relax and stop stressing instead of realizing that in outside jobs, you get breaks. Parenting is a 24/7, 365/66 days a year job that lasts for 18+ years minimum. Certainly every parent needs a bit of a break from it from time to time.

[Conuly]

I did say they have different body shapes right before the quote you put above. That's obvious and there's a reason for it. Women's shape is to help them birth babies. However, even in a general sense, everything else varies and vital internal organs outside of reproduction are the same. Internally, there's not much difference outside of that.

Your exact words were that the ONLY difference is reproductive organs. That's not true.

I'm really short (under five feet) and slender (not even 100lbs), but I can open jars at almost equal strength to my father, who's almost a foot taller and weighs quite a bit more. I don't know why that is since you think my size would make that impossible.

I never said anything of the sort. Please do not make ridiculous things up and put them in my mouth. I said that women tend to have less upper body strength than men do (although part of this is cultural), which is true. I said that women tend to be smaller then men. This is also true, although the average height of an adult woman is not a full foot shorter than the average height of an adult man - it's more like a few inches.

I never said that smaller people have less upper body strength than larger people, or that it's NEVER possible for a small woman to have more upper body strength than a large man - in fact, what I *said* is that there's more variation within a group and general tendencies tell you nothing about individuals.

[dairyfreelife]

Your exact words were that the ONLY difference is reproductive organs. That's not true.

I never said anything of the sort. Please do not make ridiculous things up and put them in my mouth. I said that women tend to have less upper body strength than men do (although part of this is cultural), which is true. I said that women tend to be smaller then men. This is also true, although the average height of an adult woman is not a full foot shorter than the average height of an adult man - it's more like a few inches.

I never said that smaller people have less upper body strength than larger people, or that it's NEVER possible for a small woman to have more upper body strength than a large man - in fact, what I *said* is that there's more variation within a group and general tendencies tell you nothing about individuals.

I don't even know where to start with this because it's so ridiculous.

:roll: I'm making ridiculous things about what you said? I'm putting words in your mouth? Pot meets the kettle much?

One, I DID say they have different body shapes:

Everyone is well-aware that men and women have different body shapes. The only thing different though is the reproductive organs. Everything else from a spine to a stomach to a liver, men and women are equal.

I said the only thing different is the reproductive organs and went on to talk about internal organs to explain a little so I was talking about internally. Internally I don't know of anything different but the reproductive organs. I added the word internally now to the OP so that so there's no confusion now. I know what I said and I know what I meant.

As for the rest of this, I really can't even come up with anything because it's so absurd it's almost funny. I was merely stating an example of a variant and that MY father is about a foot taller than I AM. I didn't say that men were overall a foot taller and I have no idea where you got that from. I do think it's weird that my sister and mother, who are both taller and weigh more can't open tight jars, but I can with equal strength to my father, who weighs a lot more and lifts weights far more often than I do. It's strange to me so I mentioned it as an example of an odd variant in gender, size and strength. I never claimed it was anything you said or that you didn't say and I'm totally baffled at how you arrived at that conclusion that I was saying something against you there or putting words in your mouth. I thought I was agreeing and giving an example of weird, but okay. :think: