New Propaganda Film-Farmageddon

[BelieveinScience]

Obviously your experience will have an impact on your habits from now on, but it's up to the individual to make that decision. Raw milk is as safe as raw eggs, and as raw eggs are legal, raw milk should be legal too. It's just fair and logical. It doesn't bother me that you choose not to eat raw things (does that include vegetables?) because that's up to you, but since other things of the same risk level as raw milk are available legally, raw milk should be too and it is wrong for farms to get shut down for selling it. People in the middle east have been eating raw lamb for centuries, and the Japanese have been eating raw fish for centuries. Your personal experiences are unfortunate but rare.

Raw milk though has a lot more chances to get stuff on it though like fecal matter which carries a lot of pathogens. I don't know how I feel about the regulations on it. I'd have to really look into and think on it. Theres a reason water is filtered before it gets through to the tap water because animal feces and other crap gets into it. Do people who think raw milk shouldn't be pasteurized also think water shouldnt be filtered? They seem like one in the same to me.

The earlier comment You made about the poor hygiene being the cause- thats a reason why raw meat should be cooked to the proper temperature before eating. As clean as you think something is nothing can be 100 percent safe and shit happens.

And no I don't eat strictly cooked vegetables- I've found vegetables like lettuce/spinach that have gone through a pasteurization like process in my grocery store.(raw veggies are an different issue, entirely. Washing them in the sink doesn't actually do anything and the only way to get rid of anything that could hurt is to bleach them but bleach leaks into the vegetables themselves which is dangerous to your health). The juice i drink has been pasteurized, too.

ETA. A quick thought. I don't necessarily think raw milk needs to be banned I do think it needs to be regulated and once or twice a year or even maybe quarterly an inspector of some sort should come by and check the place out to make sure they are practicing proper hygiene practices, cleaning things properly etc.. I think it should be regulated because so many people are unaware of where their food comes from and I can see people jumping on the raw milk bandwagon and just going to any old dairy farm to get raw milk without properly researching it.

[Arete]

Wow. I didn't realize Salatin was a fundie. I actually was introduced to his farming ideas from the blog Matron of Husbandry. And the Matron is a self avowed agnostic. Thanks Wolfie.

On raw milk, I don't know about it being regulated, and I am very pro regulation when it comes to the food industry. Let's cut to the chase. Raw milk is INHERENTLY dangerous. You can be cleaner when milking, but you can't be sterile. If it were regulated there is a fear that it would be considered "safe" by default. You want to take the risk, take it, but accept that there are risks from unpasturized milk that do not exist in pasturized milk. It is not just poor hygiene. Raw milk is baterial broth. A cow is a living animal and its udder comes into contact with lots of bacteria just from its normal daily life. Yes, those risks do disporpotionately affect children, the elderly, and the immune compromised, but infections from unpasturized milk are not unheard of in healthy people, they are just less likely.

[Wolfie]

Raw milk though has a lot more chances to get stuff on it though like fecal matter which carries a lot of pathogens. I don't know how I feel about the regulations on it. I'd have to really look into and think on it. Theres a reason water is filtered before it gets through to the tap water because animal feces and other crap gets into it. Do people who think raw milk shouldn't be pasteurized also think water shouldnt be filtered? They seem like one in the same to me.

The earlier comment You made about the poor hygiene being the cause- thats a reason why raw meat should be cooked to the proper temperature before eating. As clean as you think something is nothing can be 100 percent safe and shit happens.

And no I don't eat strictly cooked vegetables- I've found vegetables like lettuce/spinach that have gone through a pasteurization like process in my grocery store.(raw veggies are an different issue, entirely. Washing them in the sink doesn't actually do anything and the only way to get rid of anything that could hurt is to bleach them but bleach leaks into the vegetables themselves which is dangerous to your health). The juice i drink has been pasteurized, too.

ETA. A quick thought. I don't necessarily think raw milk needs to be banned I do think it needs to be regulated and once or twice a year or even maybe quarterly an inspector of some sort should come by and check the place out to make sure they are practicing proper hygiene practices, cleaning things properly etc.. I think it should be regulated because so many people are unaware of where their food comes from and I can see people jumping on the raw milk bandwagon and just going to any old dairy farm to get raw milk without properly researching it.

This. I just spent an hour sorting and cleaning eggs. The difference with the eggs is that the shell blocks stuff from getting in. Milk isn't the same. When I do drink raw milk, I drink it from sources that I trust, who have tested their animals, ect... (which so far has only been three people, other than the stuff I can buy at the natural foods store that is inspected/regulated by the state.) Even then I am cautious and if it looks at all off, I go ahead and pasturize it. (yep, this is something you can do at home.)

Though I eat plenty of raw veggies, and do eat raw eggs. HOWEVER, these are personal risks I take, not something that I insist that everybody should do. (I'm pretty trusting of my own eggs especially) My opinion is that my body is used to these things, and can handle them. Not everybody has been exposed to the same things over their lifespan. I probably get exposed to more dangerous stuff while teaching 600 students a week.

[BelieveinScience]

This. I just spent an hour sorting and cleaning eggs. The difference with the eggs is that the shell blocks stuff from getting in. Milk isn't the same. When I do drink raw milk, I drink it from sources that I trust, who have tested their animals, ect... (which so far has only been three people, other than the stuff I can buy at the natural foods store that is inspected/regulated by the state.) Even then I am cautious and if it looks at all off, I go ahead and pasturize it. (yep, this is something you can do at home.)

Though I eat plenty of raw veggies, and do eat raw eggs. HOWEVER, these are personal risks I take, not something that I insist that everybody should do. (I'm pretty trusting of my own eggs especially) My opinion is that my body is used to these things, and can handle them. Not everybody has been exposed to the same things over their lifespan. I probably get exposed to more dangerous stuff while teaching 600 students a week.

Is that really true though? It's been several years since I learned about eggs but I was always under the impression that they were permeable in the same sense that veggies are. I know when I looked at eggs through candling you could see straight through the shell.

[apple1]

... And then sit back and look at how high fructose corn syrup- responsible for diabetes, metabolic syndrome, and other things- is in EVERYTHING...

I am not a fan of HFCS, not at all. I try to avoid it as much as possible. And I hate the "corn sugar is the same as any other sugar" advertising with a passion.

However-

This statement is flat-out wrong. If only diabetes were that simple. It's not. There are many factors, and diet (for SOME individuals) is only one of them.

It's very easy for people who are not diabetic, or are not very closely related to someone who is, to make statements like this, and they are not helpful.

[Wolfie]

On my phone, so this is quick.

http://www.eggsafety.org/consumers/cons ... STRUCTURE1

Is a quick piece about how eggs prevent contamination. It isn't foolproof, but it is a lot harder to contaminate an egg, than it is to contaminate milk.

Transparancy has little to do with how permeable a material is, look at glass and plastic.