New Propaganda Film-Farmageddon

[dairyfreelife]

Found this through a Raising Homemakers Link. It was linked as good along with films called Agenda, IndoctriNation and The Monstrous Regiment of Women, so that says a lot.

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[Wolfie]

look, it's got Salatin.

[dairyfreelife]

look, it's got Salatin.

Who's Salatin?

[Rosa]

famous alternative farmer, the Polyface Farms guy.

[fundies_like_zombies]

Found this through a Raising Homemakers Link. It was linked as good along with films called Agenda, IndoctriNation and The Monstrous Regiment of Women, so that says a lot.

Are any of the others worth watching?

[debrand]

famous alternative farmer, the Polyface Farms guy.

I don't have a problem with Salatin but for some reason, fundies love him. His beliefs seem to attract both fundamentalists and those who want to change some modern farming practices. Some atheists believe in buying local produce from small farmers, growing as much of their own food as possible,etc . They would probably apprecate some of what Salatin has to say also.

[longskirtlotsakids]

I agree with what a lot of this film has to say. Monsanto is controlling food regulations today instead of unbiased science. Small and local farmers are being sued and having their farms raided under the guise of investigation.

[kamcho_papio]

Who's Salatin?

He's a big part of the docu Food, Inc., which was based in part on Michael Pollan's book The Omnivore's Dilemma.

He's also a libertarian of some sort, so he's in that cultural niche where people impose their own social meaning onto him--he's fighting the man, so he *must* be on *our* side, whatever that is.

[dairyfreelife]

Are any of the others worth watching?

Only for laughs.

IndoctriNation is all about how evil public schools are and how Christianity is declining or that Christians need to homeschool their children and exploits tragedies like school shootings to show how evil schools are.

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The Monstrous Regiment of Women is all about feminists and how evil they are.

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I found a documentart called Agenda: Grinding America Down. It's about the evil Marxist "left" trying to destroy America and turn us all into Communists.

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[Wolfie]

I don't have a problem with Salatin but for some reason, fundies love him. His beliefs seem to attract both fundamentalists and those who want to change some modern farming practices. Some atheists believe in buying local produce from small farmers, growing as much of their own food as possible,etc . They would probably apprecate some of what Salatin has to say also.

That's because he is a fundie. He may not be to the extreme that Vision Forum is, but he has done work for them. That's my beef with him, not his farming ideas. I actually use a chicken tractor that is based on his, just on a smaller scale.

I am a person who buys what they can from local farmers, I am a local egg farmer, and I grow what I can too. I still find him repugnant because of his views on women. (he has never had a woman as a full time intern, and claims it's because they can't do what he needs them to do.) I've also had people tell me that I'm crazy when I try to explain how he has worked with anti-woman groups like Vision Forum.

[dairyfreelife]

That's because he is a fundie. He may not be to the extreme that Vision Forum is, but he has done work for them. That's my beef with him, not his farming ideas. I actually use a chicken tractor that is based on his, just on a smaller scale.

I am a person who buys what they can from local farmers, I am a local egg farmer, and I grow what I can too. I still find him repugnant because of his views on women. (he has never had a woman as a full time intern, and claims it's because they can't do what he needs them to do.) I've also had people tell me that I'm crazy when I try to explain how he has worked with anti-woman groups like Vision Forum.

My beef with this film has to be the fear-mongering. I also don't quite understand why they think the gov't is against local farms? There's quite the push to buy local and organic foods in most states and the big manufacturing farms are a well-known problem in their treatment of animals. There has been a push for regulations on these farms because of these known issues. I have a hard time believing agencies are coming into people's homes with guns because they have a farm and searching without a warrant. And yes, local and state agencies are against raw milk because it's not safe to consume. They aren't out to get people for the farm, but other's safety in that case.

[Miss M]

That's because he is a fundie. He may not be to the extreme that Vision Forum is, but he has done work for them. That's my beef with him, not his farming ideas. I actually use a chicken tractor that is based on his, just on a smaller scale.

I am a person who buys what they can from local farmers, I am a local egg farmer, and I grow what I can too. I still find him repugnant because of his views on women. (he has never had a woman as a full time intern, and claims it's because they can't do what he needs them to do.) I've also had people tell me that I'm crazy when I try to explain how he has worked with anti-woman groups like Vision Forum.

This!!!! Thanks for putting my thoughts into words better than I could have!

M.

[debrand]

That's because he is a fundie. He may not be to the extreme that Vision Forum is, but he has done work for them. That's my beef with him, not his farming ideas. I actually use a chicken tractor that is based on his, just on a smaller scale.

I am a person who buys what they can from local farmers, I am a local egg farmer, and I grow what I can too. I still find him repugnant because of his views on women. (he has never had a woman as a full time intern, and claims it's because they can't do what he needs them to do.) I've also had people tell me that I'm crazy when I try to explain how he has worked with anti-woman groups like Vision Forum.

Thanks. I've read one of his books but I had no idea he was fundie. :(

[Anise]

I'm just going to say that it is ironic that he has problems with companies like Monsanto and is a neo-liberalist.

[fluttershies]

I'm just going to say that it is ironic that he has problems with companies like Monsanto and is a neo-liberalist.

QFT

If he's a libertarian then why does he care what a private company does? Shouldn't he think that Monsanto having the right to develop pesticide-resistant food is a sign of ~freedom and that well, people don't have to buy it!

As an eco-socialist, his viewpoint doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[kamcho_papio]

That's because he is a fundie. He may not be to the extreme that Vision Forum is, but he has done work for them. That's my beef with him, not his farming ideas. I actually use a chicken tractor that is based on his, just on a smaller scale.

I am a person who buys what they can from local farmers, I am a local egg farmer, and I grow what I can too. I still find him repugnant because of his views on women. (he has never had a woman as a full time intern, and claims it's because they can't do what he needs them to do.) I've also had people tell me that I'm crazy when I try to explain how he has worked with anti-woman groups like Vision Forum.

Urgh. I did not know this. I had it in my head that he was in the realm of Dr Bronner, in that he appealed to a certain subset of people who had different motivations for participating in similar activities. But if he's a real fundie, that's disturbing.

[Wolfie]

I'm just going to say that it is ironic that he has problems with companies like Monsanto and is a neo-liberalist.

Yep, he's one of those, "I want to do what I want to do, but I don't want you to do what you do."

[longskirtlotsakids]

It's flat out wrong to say the raw milk is unsafe to consume. Clean milk from a clean environment is not unsafe. I and my kids have grown up on and continue to thrive on raw goat milk. Uncooked eggs and meat carry a risk to consume yet you can still choose this option in a restaurant. Also, you can buy raw eggs.

I am not saying you should have to buy only raw milk, just tha you should have the option to purchase it off the farm. The real reason they do not allow farmers to sell is that the corporations would lose out. Farmers get $5 a gallon off the farm with no other cost. The dairy processor pays about 75 cents a gallon.

There is an Amish Farmer namd Vernon Hershberger here in WI that was raided. They set out to make an example of him. his farm was raided. Monsanto has sued farmers that were saving their own organic seed to force them t buy their hybrid seed. And then sit back and look at how high fructose corn syrup- responsible for diabetes, metabolic syndrome, and other things- is in EVERYTHING. It's because Monsanto has lobbied to the point to subsidize corn and put HFCS in everything.

Watch King Corn ater Food, inc. This isn't a fundy thing. Also, visit rareseeds.org and the Baker Seed Co (not Xtian, just nice folk) will inform you further.

[Wolfie]

Here you can buy raw milk in health food stores, there are some dairies that have done the work and certification to do so. You can buy raw milk off of farms if it is sold as "pet food." I have purchased and consumed raw milk myself.

HOWEVER- the laws are out there to protect people from farmers and corporations who would go the lazy route, not test, not watch sanitation and so on. While I do drink raw milk, I understand the regulations. But I do feel that some states are too strict. It's not a federal thing, it's a state level thing.

[Wolfie]

And then sit back and look at how high fructose corn syrup- responsible for diabetes, metabolic syndrome, and other things.

Please back up these claims, as the research I've read has shown these two issues to have mainly genetic causes, that can be made worse by lifestyle and food choices, but not caused by them.

(I have known people who are very active, eat from scratch- very little processed foods, and so on and still develop these issues.)

I'm not defending HFCS, but posting false information makes arguments against it weaker.

[fluttershies]

Please back up these claims, as the research I've read has shown these two issues to have mainly genetic causes, that can be made worse by lifestyle and food choices, but not caused by them.

(I have known people who are very active, eat from scratch- very little processed foods, and so on and still develop these issues.)

I'm not defending HFCS, but posting false information makes arguments against it weaker.

Yeah, HFCS definitely doesn't cause diabetes, otherwise there wouldn't be diabetes in countries where HFCS doesn't exist in the quantities it does in the US. I have a problem with HFCS because I have a problem with the power lobbyists have regarding food regulation.

[BelieveinScience]

It's flat out wrong to say the raw milk is unsafe to consume. Clean milk from a clean environment is not unsafe. I and my kids have grown up on and continue to thrive on raw goat milk. Uncooked eggs and meat carry a risk to consume yet you can still choose this option in a restaurant. Also, you can buy raw eggs.

I am not saying you should have to buy only raw milk, just tha you should have the option to purchase it off the farm. The real reason they do not allow farmers to sell is that the corporations would lose out. Farmers get $5 a gallon off the farm with no other cost. The dairy processor pays about 75 cents a gallon.

There is an Amish Farmer namd Vernon Hershberger here in WI that was raided. They set out to make an example of him. his farm was raided. Monsanto has sued farmers that were saving their own organic seed to force them t buy their hybrid seed. And then sit back and look at how high fructose corn syrup- responsible for diabetes, metabolic syndrome, and other things- is in EVERYTHING. It's because Monsanto has lobbied to the point to subsidize corn and put HFCS in everything.

Watch King Corn ater Food, inc. This isn't a fundy thing. Also, visit rareseeds.org and the Baker Seed Co (not Xtian, just nice folk) will inform you further.

Are you talking about "rare" meat in this? Because things like steak etc.. actually are safe to eat even if not thoroughly cooked as long as they aren't injected with random seasonings (thats nto the right word but my brain has turned to mush studying for finals, its something liek juices to increase flavor). The meat has to be cooked to a certain temperature to kill off the possible bacteria but since the inside of a steak isnt touched by machinery no germs can get inside and its sterile. Hamburgers aren't considered safe if you eat them rare because they are manipulated 100 percent all around by teh machines.

That said I will never drink raw milk, eat uncooked eggs or raw/are meat. It's already enough of a gamble to consume stuff after its been sterilized, pasteurized etc.. and I won't increase my chances of ending on my death bed again.

[fluttershies]

Are you talking about "rare" meat in this? Because things like steak etc.. actually are safe to eat even if not thoroughly cooked as long as they aren't injected with random seasonings (thats nto the right word but my brain has turned to mush studying for finals, its something liek juices to increase flavor). The meat has to be cooked to a certain temperature to kill off the possible bacteria but since the inside of a steak isnt touched by machinery no germs can get inside and its sterile. Hamburgers aren't considered safe if you eat them rare because they are manipulated 100 percent all around by teh machines.

That said I will never drink raw milk, eat uncooked eggs or raw/are meat. It's already enough of a gamble to consume stuff after its been sterilized, pasteurized etc.. and I won't increase my chances of ending on my death bed again.

Steak tartare is totally raw (and also contains raw egg). There's also sashimi (raw fish). Unless you have a compromised immune system (eg are a child, elderly, pregnant etc), raw meat/eggs and unpasteurised milk are very unlikely to do you any harm. Not a lot can survive stomach acid. I've always eaten my steak rare (preferably blue, French-style) and prefer my hamburgers medium-rare, and have never ever had a problem. On the contrary, I've had food poisoning before from thoroughly cooked ground beef in a calzone (clearly past its best) and from salad leaves that had gone off. Poor hygeine is behind most food poisoning cases, not the cooked-ness of the ingredients.

[BelieveinScience]

Steak tartare is totally raw (and also contains raw egg). There's also sashimi (raw fish). Unless you have a compromised immune system (eg are a child, elderly, pregnant etc), raw meat/eggs and unpasteurised milk are very unlikely to do you any harm. Not a lot can survive stomach acid. I've always eaten my steak rare (preferably blue, French-style) and prefer my hamburgers medium-rare, and have never ever had a problem. On the contrary, I've had food poisoning before from thoroughly cooked ground beef in a calzone (clearly past its best) and from salad leaves that had gone off. Poor hygeine is behind most food poisoning cases, not the cooked-ness of the ingredients.

Your stomach acid ph varies though. I wouldn't call what I got "food poisoning" more like here come get this critter that lives on raw meat(recently learned it was actuallly raw/improperly cooked/handled meat not water on how I contracted it) and let it invade and shut down your system and put you on you death bed for months and months and cause life long issues. I know I'm probably extreme in my thinking but after that I wont consume anything that is even remotely raw if I start eating it and its raw on the inside-I immediately stop eating it. The it's unlikely to happen doesn't mean anything to me since I fell into the "unlikely" category- its not a risk I'm willing to make and I know people who have changed their eating styles after hearing my story in depth and seeing how ravaged my insides are from it.

ETA: I just realized half of that probably came off bitchy. I didnt mean for it to I'm just passionate about the topic after the hell I went through/am going through with it.

[fluttershies]

Your stomach acid ph varies though. I wouldn't call what I got "food poisoning" more like here come get this critter that lives on raw meat(recently learned it was actuallly raw/improperly cooked/handled meat not water on how I contracted it) and let it invade and shut down your system and put you on you death bed for months and months and cause life long issues. I know I'm probably extreme in my thinking but after that I wont consume anything that is even remotely raw if I start eating it and its raw on the inside-I immediately stop eating it. The it's unlikely to happen doesn't mean anything to me since I fell into the "unlikely" category- its not a risk I'm willing to make and I know people who have changed their eating styles after hearing my story in depth and seeing how ravaged my insides are from it.

ETA: I just realized half of that probably came off bitchy. I didnt mean for it to I'm just passionate about the topic after the hell I went through/am going through with it.

Obviously your experience will have an impact on your habits from now on, but it's up to the individual to make that decision. Raw milk is as safe as raw eggs, and as raw eggs are legal, raw milk should be legal too. It's just fair and logical. It doesn't bother me that you choose not to eat raw things (does that include vegetables?) because that's up to you, but since other things of the same risk level as raw milk are available legally, raw milk should be too and it is wrong for farms to get shut down for selling it. People in the middle east have been eating raw lamb for centuries, and the Japanese have been eating raw fish for centuries. Your personal experiences are unfortunate but rare.