heartsdesire/ Epic COW Talk--Merged

[twin2]

She sounds like a real nut! I was reading several of her posts and couldn't believe all the crap she posts. In the words of the immortal Bugs Bunny, "what a maroon!"

She tries really, really hard to be Zsu. She has the level of hate right, but can't quite seem to put it all coherently together.

I never lived on a dairy farm, but I grew up in the cow country part of Wisconsin and had many friends who were farmers. Sometimes they would come into school looking tired. Turns our a cow would start calving at night and they would be out in the barn with them till the calf came. I can not fathom how they thought leaving a cow with a calf partially out on her own to work through it was acceptable. Perhaps they were leaving their herd size up to god.

PS: Not sure if we discussed this, but she is preggers.

[Terrie]

I'm not a farmer. Never owned livestock, or lived in the country. All my knowledge comes from James Herriot and other books. Even I know the first thing you do is slick up your arm and find out what going on inside. Of course, that would require them to touch vagina, so maybe it's considered defrauding and sinful, even when it's a cow. :roll:

[Fundilicious]

Eh, this has most likely been mentioned but I grew up next to a farm and we would go and watch the animals being born all the time. Chains were often used. However, I would assume that at any sign of distress of failure to progress through the birth canal that my neighbors would have called a professional. Thankfully, I never saw a birth that didn't just need one good pull before the calf came out. This is really sad to read.

[RebelJinger]

The first step when you find your animal in distress is to check what is happening inside. Why would you move an animal to a barn or try to pull a calf if you don't know what is going on inside? You could do far more damage moving her than leaving her. It is time to pull up your sleeves, insert an arm and find out what is going on. Is the calf alive? Is it round the right way? Is it big? The vet will ask all these questions when you ring. I can't believe they attempted to pull the calf without doing an internal. Imagine what damage they could do if the calf was jammed in the pelvis! Leaving the animal and going to bed --- aaarrgh --- vets will come out at night.

This. I've assisted in two horse births. The second had dystocia, and the foal's head was jammed under the pelvis. I called the vet when the horse's water broke, but the labor didn't progress after its front hooves were sticking out. If we had just pulled on the hooves, it's likely the foal's neck would've snapped. If we had just LEFT HER FOR HOURS, the poor mare would have been straining for hours trying to push on a baby that wasn't coming out. I felt bad that the mare was pushing without progress for even twenty minutes. Poor thing.

I don't know about calves, but a healthy horse birth takes less than an hour. I can't imagine just walking away if the cow has been trying for more than that.

(The mare was drugged when the vet got there, and the tallest vet tech stuck his hand in and pulled the foal's head into a better position once the mare's contractions were more manageable. The baby was pulled out with chains and everything was ok :) )

[latraviata]

I'm not a farmer. Never owned livestock, or lived in the country. All my knowledge comes from James Herriot and other books. Even I know the first thing you do is slick up your arm and find out what going on inside. Of course, that would require them to touch vagina, so maybe it's considered defrauding and sinful, even when it's a cow. :roll:

Same here, as far as cows are concerned educated by James Herriot and my sister, she is/was a registered nurse. She lives in a rural area of our country and is very involved in the local communtity. Sometimes the local vet asked for her assistance when he performed a caesarean on a neighbour's cow.

When I read this story I thought, this can't be right, but little do I know. I am glad glad I see my concerns about this poor cow confirmed by my fellow FJ members.

A good farmer loves and takes care of his animals properly, that is a general rule, we all know that!

[SamuraiKatz]

I've seen 2 cow births in my whole life. The first time was a normal birth, no intervention needed. The second, I remembered my neighbor used a rope. The calf was about to die, so no time to call the vet out. While yes it did hut the cow, it also saved her calf. My neighbor had to clean the calf & help it breath at first, but he came around. It also took the cow minute or to get up & walk properly, but when she did, she immediately went to her calf and got him on his feet. They called the vet anyway just to make sure things were ok. I tihng he gave the cow a shot for the pain or something. Both cow and calf were just fine and the cow suffered no long term effects.

Since then the only animals I have seen born were my feline headship and his siblings. Mama cat was exhausted and Herman (my headship) was stuck. Sis took over as midwife & gently pulled him out. After that mama cat took over..licked him clean, bit the umbilical cord and ate the afterbirth. Looked gross to me but dogs and cats do it all the time. No need to call the vet, all 5 kittens and mama were fine and not a single kitten died. Herman went from runt of the litter to abusive

headship....LOL!

Totally off topic. Is this Herman kitty the Herman kitty I follow on Twitter?

On Topic: If these people don't treat the birth of one of their children like this. If they do, they will end up with a lot of government involvement in their lives.. :?

[Witsec7]

I sent the link to three of my Vet friends last night. I'm surprised I didn't hear the sound of their heads exploding as they read it. One had a career in cattle production, nice mild mannered little guy and the prose in his response was purple.

Oh I also sent the link to Dr. Baxter Black, I do hope I'll get a reply.

[BelieveinScience]

GOOD FOR YOU! Honestly, this kind of neglect makes me want to set people on fire to die slowly. And people who mistreat animals need to know that people are watching. One cow, 10 dogs, an entire farm -- doesn't matter -- people are watching.

The problem is that legislation isn't powerful enough to nail people on their first offense, but that is an improving situation, too, and depends on what state you are looking at. I get really worked up about this stuff -- and I've been present on some rescues that will haunt me forever.

And that the punishments you get for abusing animals are basically a slap on the hand.

[BelieveinScience]

Eh, this has most likely been mentioned but I grew up next to a farm and we would go and watch the animals being born all the time. Chains were often used. However, I would assume that at any sign of distress of failure to progress through the birth canal that my neighbors would have called a professional. Thankfully, I never saw a birth that didn't just need one good pull before the calf came out. This is really sad to read.

If chains were often used on that farm then the farmer was doing something wrong. The majority of cows should be able to give birth without needing a human to intervene.

[donks]

Ever watch Last American Cowboy or whatever it was called on Animal Planet? Those guys seem to pull calf after calf after calf. Why do they not choose a bull that provides low birth weight calves? All they're doing is making life hard on themselves and the stock, too!

[Witsec7]

Ever watch Last American Cowboy or whatever it was called on Animal Planet? Those guys seem to pull calf after calf after calf. Why do they not choose a bull that provides low birth weight calves? All they're doing is making life hard on themselves and the stock, too!

I've never watched AC, but I do know real cowboys, lots of times if these are range grazed cattle its easier to pull and get the calf on its feet, it provides a better survival rate and ensure that the CBs can go back to tending their little doggies :D Also some range cattle are not selectively bred, and breeding is open.

[BelieveinScience]

I've never watched AC, but I do know real cowboys, lots of times if these are range grazed cattle its easier to pull and get the calf on its feet, it provides a better survival rate and ensure that the CBs can go back to tending their little doggies :D Also some range cattle are not selectively bred, and breeding is open.

Even with open breeding you should still be choosing bulls with EPDs that are compatible with the cow/heifers you have.

[Terrie]

Ever watch Last American Cowboy or whatever it was called on Animal Planet? Those guys seem to pull calf after calf after calf. Why do they not choose a bull that provides low birth weight calves? All they're doing is making life hard on themselves and the stock, too!

Some of it is probably editing. I suspect that guys pulling calves makes for better TV.

[DistantStar]

Oh, that poor cow. And poor calf. I hope the calf didn't suffer much. :( And I hope the cow makes a full recovery and that somehow she goes to people who know something about cows, and are willing to call the #%^$@ vet!

I too know nothing more about cow birthing than what I learned from Herriott and a little here and there from Animal Planet, but they couldn't have handled this worse if they'd tried from what I do know. I couldn't leave any female of any species who is having trouble giving birth alone while I went and crawled into my nice warm bed...bastards!

[BelieveinScience]

Well sarah didn't post the comments you all were posting about the cow/calf situation but left a nice reply in her comments about how everyone who left her comments obviously knows nothing about cattle.

[kunoichi66]

Well sarah didn't post the comments you all were posting about the cow/calf situation but left a nice reply in her comments about how everyone who left her comments obviously knows nothing about cattle.

Neither does she!

[Miss M]

What a smarmy BITCH!!

I know cattle, this is the first year we haven't had any at the farm!!

Sarah said...

To All "Concerned" People ~ It is obvious that you all have absolutely no idea about raising cattle. Intervention at too an early stage can cause huge problems and can even be fatal. I did state that some SLOW progress was being made. My husband is well experienced in attending a cow in labour; having being raised on a farm his whole life. I stated that we have never had to attend/assist one of our OWN cows since WE have farmed; thankfully they have never required any assistance up until this stage.

Our Vet informed us that this situation (the calf being abnormally large) was VERY unusual as we practice A.I in our breeding. We normally choose a bull that sires small calves. The Vet agreed there may have been a mix up when injecting the cow. But I guess the truth is not half as much "fun", as verbally attacking us in lieu of the facts.

Furthermore it is common practice to assist a cow by attempting to pull the calf out (only using minimal/moderate force and only when the cow is straining) using ropes and a pulling bar. Qualified vets sometimes even use what is called a "calving jack"...but I guess you would have to have had PERSONAL experience to know that, and not simply assume you know everything from behind your computer.

Your infantile and foolish comments will not be published.

April 29, 2012 11:22 AM

[Conuly]

Whatever. Leaving a birthing (domesticated, don't interfere with wild creatures unless you know what you're doing) animal alone all night after it's spent hours already in labor is cruel and inhumane. Period.

[Georgiana]

Let it be known that in my "infantile and foolish" comment, I asked her for one thing: a published source that recommends this as a proper way to handle a cow birth with complications. All she had to do was say that person X on site Y or person X in book Z recommends this as a way to handle this situation. I did NOT pretend to know everything, I ASKED her where she got her knowledge.

As you can see, she clearly doesn't have a published source that recommends this. All she goes on about is personal experience and living on a farm. Guess what sister? I have lived and worked on farms. They weren't breeding farms. So even though I know quite a bit about general husbandry, I have nothing in regards to birthing/breeding. Oh wait, I do know how to incubate fertilized eggs. I can haz cow birth certification nao?

I get the feeling that Sarah and her husband just decided they knew enough to breed cattle and went to town. If they had consulted any sources on the matter, I'm sure she would have cited them right away. Sometimes omissions speak louder than words.

ETA: I did not criticize her for trying to pull out the calf. My criticism was purely on one thing: that they left the cow in labor with no progress for over 12 hours, especially AFTER they were unable to assist. I wanted her to tell me where she found that if you cannot assist a cow with no labor progress that the right thing to do is ignore the cow.

[samurai_sarah]

Whatever. Leaving a birthing (domesticated, don't interfere with wild creatures unless you know what you're doing) animal alone all night after it's spent hours already in labor is cruel and inhumane. Period.

QFT.

My grandparents, who were farmers, always used to say that livestock comes first. You don't get to go to bloody bed, while one of your cows is in distress! That's a living creature, and your livelihood, right there! So, no.

They also said that you can tell whether or not someone is a decent human being by the way they treat their livestock. Sarah, you've told me all I need to know about you! If you were in the UK, I'd call the RSPCA on your sorry bottom! You do not deserve those animals, and they sure as hell don't deserve your "care".

[slickcat79]

She tries really, really hard to be Zsu. She has the level of hate right, but can't quite seem to put it all coherently together.

Yeah, that. I think she might be a bigger Zsu fangirl than Jessica/Latisha. I think Zsu's ebil public school education sets her apart from the rest of the bitter fundie crowd. Sarah does seem to be particularly judgmental for someone who hasn't really lived a "godly" life :roll:

[DistantStar]

Whatever. Leaving a birthing (domesticated, don't interfere with wild creatures unless you know what you're doing) animal alone all night after it's spent hours already in labor is cruel and inhumane. Period.

QFT again. That poor animal! Hell, even if they didn't care about how the animal feels, surely any financial issues should have spurred them to call the fucking vet. Vet bills can be pricey, but I'm thinking would probably be less than losing the cow!

[Austin]

I bookmarked her and well check and see if she publishes your comments G. If she does and gets all butt hurt around it I my just have deliver her a can of my own personal flavor of verbal whoop ass. 8-)

There is nothing in the world like bacon-flavored whoop ass :D

[treemom]

My Gramps used to pull them with a rope and a come-along if they were well stuck or it was a small cow/big calf. Some can be pulled by hand if you are strong enough, by placing your feet against the back end of the cow. However, they should have went in to see where the head was before trying to pull, it the head was back and not forward down the birth canal that would have been the problem right there. Calf would have to be pushed back in somewhat and the head would have to be pulled down, then pull the calf. In my opinion they killed the calf with inexperience and neglecting to call a vet earlier.

Edited to add because I actually read the blog post, the front feet and the nose were out prior to midnight, but two strong grown men (Brian and Sarah's Dad) couldn't manage to pull that calf. Well, there you go! Even a big calf can be pulled if one learns about the proper care of the animals they own and doesn't subscribe to the "we never have had to help one before" theory!

Assholes! They are lucky they didn't lose the cow!

M.

This. I have farm experience as well.

[deelaem]

Infantile and arrogant comments?! For "godly" people, their absolute arrogance is astounding. They are completely unable to accept any disagreement. I'm so sad for their remaining animals.