heartsdesire/ Epic COW Talk--Merged

[BelieveinScience]

Also adding on to say about the pulling of the calves farmers/cattle owners themselves are typically better trained to pull a calf than vets are. You'd be surprised how many vets don't know how to properly pull a calf.

[Witsec7]

Also adding on to say about the pulling of the calves farmers/cattle owners themselves are typically better trained to pull a calf than vets are. You'd be surprised how many vets don't know how to properly pull a calf.

Around here we have a couple of good RVPs who keep their own stock, but yea, most folks that have sheep, horses, cows, goats or llamas have a lot more practice. Camelids are a total pain when it comes to pulling.

[longskirtlotsakids]

WTF? I only skimmed it. On what planet is that even remotely okay?! Idiots.

Totally not OK. there isn't a farmer on earth that would have done that. They probably just thought if they left her alone she's be fine... after you have been mucking about with a birth you see it through.

Regarding that comment about home births though- the way some of these fundies treat their wives, i'd say most of the time the cows and horses get better treatment. After all, they retire the animals sometimes...

[Wolfie]

Someone should have stuck their hand up that cow to feel where the head was before the feet dropped. If the head was in a good position I would have pulled. Mind you I'm small and never pulled a calf on my own, but I've pulled, lamas, and goats.

I'm interested in folks opinions on this as well. Nothing like speculating on how to pull a calf for some fast Saturday night action :dance:

This. I've only pulled guinea pigs, but I know many people who have larger livestock, I hope to have some someday too.

You don't leave an animal alone for hours if the birth isn't progressing and something is sticking out of it. That generally results in dead offspring, and more often than not a mother who either is also dead, or can no longer breed.

[Witsec7]

Totally not OK. there isn't a farmer on earth that would have done that. They probably just thought if they left her alone she's be fine... after you have been mucking about with a birth you see it through.

Regarding that comment about home births though- the way some of these fundies treat their wives, i'd say most of the time the cows and horses get better treatment. After all, they retire the animals sometimes...

Who are these fucks anyway? Where do they live? I want to put them on my list.

[geniebelle6901]

I've seen 2 cow births in my whole life. The first time was a normal birth, no intervention needed. The second, I remembered my neighbor used a rope. The calf was about to die, so no time to call the vet out. While yes it did hut the cow, it also saved her calf. My neighbor had to clean the calf & help it breath at first, but he came around. It also took the cow minute or to get up & walk properly, but when she did, she immediately went to her calf and got him on his feet. They called the vet anyway just to make sure things were ok. I tihng he gave the cow a shot for the pain or something. Both cow and calf were just fine and the cow suffered no long term effects.

Since then the only animals I have seen born were my feline headship and his siblings. Mama cat was exhausted and Herman (my headship) was stuck. Sis took over as midwife & gently pulled him out. After that mama cat took over..licked him clean, bit the umbilical cord and ate the afterbirth. Looked gross to me but dogs and cats do it all the time. No need to call the vet, all 5 kittens and mama were fine and not a single kitten died. Herman went from runt of the litter to abusive

headship....LOL!

[BelieveinScience]

Totally not OK. there isn't a farmer on earth that would have done that. They probably just thought if they left her alone she's be fine... after you have been mucking about with a birth you see it through.

Regarding that comment about home births though- the way some of these fundies treat their wives, i'd say most of the time the cows and horses get better treatment. After all, they retire the animals sometimes...

I know here when we see a cow in labor we move her away from the other cows into a pen and watch her until she gives birth and then we let her stay in there or a little bit to bond with her baby. We would never throw a laboring mama in the pen and then throw back out in the pasture while still in labor. That is just so wrong. I wish in order to be able to breed livestock you have to take a livestock 101 class because the birthing process is such basic knowledge to knwo of what to do and what not to do.

[Witsec7]

Lots of times if a few of the girls are due and one goes into labor you can expect the others to follow. Bring them all in, make sure they have clean bedding, keep them unstressed. Neglect of animals and kids just sets me on fire.

I was on rounds with a beef production Vet once and he got a call to a hippy family farm and their cow was in trouble, a similar scenario, long labor no progress stuck calf. He reported them for criminal neglect after he cut the calf out.

[PennySycamore]

All this talk of calving reminds me of James Herriot. Many of the stories he told involved difficult calvings, usually in a frigid barn. It was the Depression and money was scarce for many of the Dales farmers. They'd still call the vet out to handle a difficult birthing. Their cows were their livelihood.

My brother-in-law has a small herd of beef cattle. He and my sister go out to "count cows" and make sure the pregnant cows are OK during calving season at least once a day.

[WonderingInWA]

Lots of times if a few of the girls are due and one goes into labor you can expect the others to follow. Bring them all in, make sure they have clean bedding, keep them unstressed. Neglect of animals and kids just sets me on fire.

I was on rounds with a beef production Vet once and he got a call to a hippy family farm and their cow was in trouble, a similar scenario, long labor no progress stuck calf. He reported them for criminal neglect after he cut the calf out.

I volunteer for an animal rescue organization and they are ALL OVER hearing cases like this. Although this is only one cow, so I'm not sure if they could even draw interest, but they would certainly document it for the future since idiots often repeat their same mistakes.

[Georgiana]

What really gets me is how she writes the whole post like "Boohoo me, I'm sooo sad". No. You're not. If you were REALLY sad, if you were REALLY sorry, you would have taken ownership of your actions. You would admit that YOU didn't contact the vet soon enough. That YOU didn't know what you were doing. You would decide that maybe YOU don't know what you are doing and are going to take some classes/shadow a more experienced farmer/rancher.

Sometimes animals die in birth because of things that even the best care cannot help. Sometimes they die because only the best care can help, and that isn't available. And sometimes they suffer or die because the humans that could help them choose not to or are too arrogant/miserly to get the animals the help they need.

I am sorry, but I do NOT understand how a pregnant woman could watch another animal struggle in labor and just turn her back to it. I don't really understand how anyone could, but a pregnant woman especially.

If this is the care you provide for your animals, do not EVER expect me to feel sorry for you when you lose them. Because that's what happens to domestic animals when you don't care for them: they die.

And one more thing: I hope this shows you that your family is CLEARLY not qualified to attend a birth. So please, when you go into labor, make sure that someone with an actual medical license is present for the birth of that child you are carrying. Because if your husband can't attend a cow birth, there is no way in hell he can handle the MUCH more complicated birth of a human.

[WonderingInWA]

What really gets me is how she writes the whole post like "Boohoo me, I'm sooo sad". No. You're not. If you were REALLY sad, if you were REALLY sorry, you would have taken ownership of your actions. You would admit that YOU didn't contact the vet soon enough. That YOU didn't know what you were doing. You would decide that maybe YOU don't know what you are doing and are going to take some classes/shadow a more experienced farmer/rancher.

Sometimes animals die in birth because of things that even the best care cannot help. Sometimes they die because only the best care can help, and that isn't available. And sometimes they suffer or die because the humans that could help them choose not to or are too arrogant/miserly to get the animals the help they need.

I am sorry, but I do NOT understand how a pregnant woman could watch another animal struggle in labor and just turn her back to it. I don't really understand how anyone could, but a pregnant woman especially.

If this is the care you provide for your animals, do not EVER expect me to feel sorry for you when you lose them. Because that's what happens to domestic animals when you don't care for them: they die.

And one more thing: I hope this shows you that your family is CLEARLY not qualified to attend a birth. So please, when you go into labor, make sure that someone with an actual medical license is present for the birth of that child you are carrying. Because if your husband can't attend a cow birth, there is no way in hell he can handle the MUCH more complicated birth of a human.

Yes, this!

I decided I couldn't bear to actually read her blog entry (I am an animal lover to the core) so don't know if you can post on her blog? If you can, you should. She needs to hear every word you just said.

[Witsec7]

@Georgiana

I can't imagine blogging about such an irresponsible cluster fuck. The woman has no awareness of how others could perceive the inaction of her father and husband.

[Georgiana]

@Georgiana

I can't imagine blogging about such an irresponsible cluster fuck. The woman has no awareness of how others could perceive the inaction of her father and husband.

Sent. I was as polite as my rage would allow me to be, but also forceful about what an idiot she is. I doubt it will show up. And if it does, it'll be all for more sympathy for her, and I'm sure Zsu will be all over me for being a government-loving hippie (which is an oxymoron, but I don't think Zsu knows what that means). I asked her to show me a reputable source that she/the hubs consulted that recommended this kind of neglect. I also told her that if she doesn't want to get slapped with gross neglect of her livestock, she better be more careful about what she posts.

[WonderingInWA]

Sent. I was as polite as my rage would allow me to be, but also forceful about what an idiot she is. I doubt it will show up. And if it does, it'll be all for more sympathy for her, and I'm sure Zsu will be all over me for being a government-loving hippie (which is an oxymoron, but I don't think Zsu knows what that means). I asked her to show me a reputable source that she/the hubs consulted that recommended this kind of neglect. I also told her that if she doesn't want to get slapped with gross neglect of her livestock, she better be more careful about what she posts.

GOOD FOR YOU! Honestly, this kind of neglect makes me want to set people on fire to die slowly. And people who mistreat animals need to know that people are watching. One cow, 10 dogs, an entire farm -- doesn't matter -- people are watching.

The problem is that legislation isn't powerful enough to nail people on their first offense, but that is an improving situation, too, and depends on what state you are looking at. I get really worked up about this stuff -- and I've been present on some rescues that will haunt me forever.

[Witsec7]

I see she lives in Ireland and it was a Friesian, don't know if it was a x or not, but thats a spendy piece of stock to risk.

[Georgiana]

GOOD FOR YOU! Honestly, this kind of neglect makes me want to set people on fire to die slowly. And people who mistreat animals need to know that people are watching. One cow, 10 dogs, an entire farm -- doesn't matter -- people are watching.

The problem is that legislation isn't powerful enough to nail people on their first offense, but that is an improving situation, too, and depends on what state you are looking at. I get really worked up about this stuff -- and I've been present on some rescues that will haunt me forever.

I want her to know that THIS IS PARTIALLY HER FAULT. I want her to know that, and I want her to really feel responsibility for this. I want that because if she takes responsibility, I think then she will also educate herself to make sure that next time, her animal is better cared for.

But as long as she denies her culpability, as long as she treats this like some freak accident that couldn't have been prevented, she isn't going to get educated. And this will happen again. Maybe not on the next birth, maybe not in the next 10 births, but if she continues to breed cattle/animals there WILL be another tough birth. And next time, I want the animal to have an owner who doesn't just throw it out in the field.

[Witsec7]

I bookmarked her and well check and see if she publishes your comments G. If she does and gets all butt hurt around it I my just have deliver her a can of my own personal flavor of verbal whoop ass. 8-)

[Miggy]

The first step when you find your animal in distress is to check what is happening inside. Why would you move an animal to a barn or try to pull a calf if you don't know what is going on inside? You could do far more damage moving her than leaving her. It is time to pull up your sleeves, insert an arm and find out what is going on. Is the calf alive? Is it round the right way? Is it big? The vet will ask all these questions when you ring. I can't believe they attempted to pull the calf without doing an internal. Imagine what damage they could do if the calf was jammed in the pelvis! Leaving the animal and going to bed --- aaarrgh --- vets will come out at night.

[CanadianHippie]

But I'm sure that whoever did that KNEW what they were doing.

I can only assume. I was three when I got to see this.

[emmiedahl]

What's funny is that she posted this sarah-heartsdesire.blogspot.com/2012/04/most-selfish-woman-ever.html last week about a woman who was SOOO selfish because she had one child and she did not want any more. Sarah called her the most selfish woman in the world. I did not bring it here because she was fairly begging us to talk about it, it was mentioned in the comments and I don't like feeding insipid attention whores.

I am pretty sure she reads here, so I will address her like she is:

The most selfish thing you can do is to assume responsibility of an animal that you will not/cannot care for. This was the point of that selfish, selfish woman (as you call her). She felt that her life was perfect with one child and that another would stretch her resources. Because living things are not religious trophies; they require work and care. Selfishness is not respecting your limitations, but rather refusing to acknowledge that you have any. You obviously were not capable of handling this situation with the poor, suffering animal, nor particularly willing; a normal person would have called a veterinarian, but you decided to get a good night's sleep instead while one of God's creatures suffered and another died.

I think God would judge you as the selfish person. You neglected a living thing to the point where many would call it torture. How is that less important that what your daughters wear to swim?

[nomi]

This story is so disgusting and what she did is absolutely criminal.

[teddybear]

She sounds like a real nut! I was reading several of her posts and couldn't believe all the crap she posts. In the words of the immortal Bugs Bunny, "what a maroon!"

[Eoywin]

That single child post pissed me off. :angry-cussingblack: I'm the mom of one child that is our only but I don't think I'm selfish or that my daughter will turn out being despondent that she was an only.

I posted a comment but I doubt it will see the light of day.

[deelaem]

A simple Google search will give you instructions on how to safely pull a calf. Dairy farmers have been doing it for eons. But I guess all they cared about was that the cow was freshened, they probably didn't want the calf anyway.