Fundies Closing the Conversation

[Witsec1]

I think she said we were trying to challenge her.

:roll: Because she is an authority figure at 18 with no job and no education.

Wait what????? I missed an appearance of Kelly's mini-me?

[debrand]

I'm trying to remember the different ways that I've heard this sentiment expressed. Basically, some Christians believe that your intelligence/eductation can get in the way of your ability to just accept religion without too many questions.

My brother told me that I am not religious because I overanalyze religion. I've had other people tell me that I just have to take a leap of faith and believe. In other words, stop using your brain and asking questions.

[Little Miss Alien]

We really need to keep this list compiled somewhere so we can have it on hand the next time a fundie shows up here to "straighten us out." At the very least we can make it a drinking game - a shot for every time they trot out these tired old lines. :twisted:

All the more reason for me to buy more Jack Daniels!

Edited for riffle.

[GeoBQn]

"I'm not here to judge. Only the LORD can do that, and one day you will stand before Him."

[ilovetchotchkes]

I'm trying to remember the different ways that I've heard this sentiment expressed. Basically, some Christians believe that your intelligence/eductation can get in the way of your ability to just accept religion without too many questions.

My brother told me that I am not religious because I overanalyze religion. I've had other people tell me that I just have to take a leap of faith and believe. In other words, stop using your brain and asking questions.

Yeah, i got told that too. Instead of "just accepting it" I found a faith more accepting of questions and debate. :)

I'm all for the drinking game, but someone will have to drink for me until August because I'm sure we'd all be dead drunk within about 20 posts. Anyone willing?

[emmiedahl]

I am all for a drinking game. I love drinking games... they combine my two favorite things.

[Dhani_C]

I'm not really fundie (I don't see myself that way, anyway), but when I get into an argument with someone over my beliefs and it's clear they have no interest in what I have to say I just end the conversation by saying I'm through talking with them. I'm happy to have a civil and open conversation about religion, but when it turns into a war of "you're wrong, because..." I excuse myself because it's going to go nowhere.

[Terrie]

"You'll see I'm right when you're stuck in Hell."

[thoughtful]

There's always the Bingo option for a game. These are not necessarily "end the argument" ploys, but some are (and all are fundy-licious!):

http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2011/10 ... ent-bingo/

http://godfree110158.blogs.experiencepr ... 87755.html

[Marian the Librarian]

When Mr. M t L and/or I meet up with proselytizers (either out in the world, or the ones who knock on our door with some regularity), our response is "Thanks very much, our spiritual needs are being met. Have a nice day." Works every time, no arguing, no drama.

[debrand]

The problem with proselytizers is that they want to control the conversation. As soon as someone throws in a question or comment that they can't answer, they turn the conversation off.

Some Christians misuse Jesus's quote about having faith like a child to mean that they shouldn't ever question or doubt.

[slickcat79]

Wait what????? I missed an appearance of Kelly's mini-me?

Sorry, no, that was badly worded. She said it on her blog, and it was quoted in another thread.

[Minerva]

The problem with proselytizers is that they want to control the conversation. As soon as someone throws in a question or comment that they can't answer, they turn the conversation off.

Some Christians misuse Jesus's quote about having faith like a child to mean that they shouldn't ever question or doubt.

They're just like street canvassers. I imagine the training is similar.

[Terrasola]

They're just like street canvassers. I imagine the training is similar.

Oh oh. Can we deal with them the way we deal with street canvassers (and phone sales people)? That would be fun.

1. You're too late. I just signed up with another religion. We'll pray for YOU.

2. A reputable God would have done his / her research and would know how to pronounce/spell my name (or would not call me that vulgar word). I don't associate with a God / church that doesn't do that.

And my personal favourite,

3. You can tell me about your religion if I can tell you about mine. And you're in luck. The coven meets here at 3:00 today.

(Underlined words are products, companies or services when these tactics are used with canvassers and phone trollers).

Seriously, though, my go-to line in such discussions, once it is clear that a true discussion is over, is that my God(dess) gave me a brain to discern the truth for myself because I'm not meant to be a helpless waif and I am so sorry that either yours didn't or you weren't taught not to be a burden. Either way it's so sad (sigh for emphasis, and flounce).

Edited for clarity.

[Swamptribe]

One of my favorites always was "Well, I'll have to ask my pastor about that one".

Read a great quote yesterday that I thought would be a wonderful response to many proselytizers and their arguments. Just substitute 'gods' with 'god'.

“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.â€

― Marcus Aurelius

Unfortunately, this would also probably lead to the old canard 'you can't have morals without god'.

Sadly, over the years I've learned that it's pretty pointless to have such conversations with those who come proselytizing. They have no intention of listening and aren't interested in anything but converting you.

[formergothardite]

Since GenieBelle is back and posting, she has told me several times that my opinion on religion is invalid because I was raised in a cult so she doesn't have to respond to any of my questions. That was actually a new one for me when it comes to people wanting to close a conversation on religion. Mostly they stick to you are just bitter.

[Terrie]

Since GenieBelle is back and posting, she has told me several times that my opinion on religion is invalid because I was raised in a cult so she doesn't have to respond to any of my questions. That was actually a new one for me when it comes to people wanting to close a conversation on religion. Mostly they stick to you are just bitter.

I noticed that. You'd think that since she changed her user name to cut association with her previous comments, she'd chose something we wouldn't all immediately recognize.

[formergothardite]

I noticed that. You'd think that since she changed her user name to cut association with her previous comments, she'd chose something we wouldn't all immediately recognize.

She said it was because she forgot her login info so she started a new account. But I really never understood why being raised in a cult meant that I couldn't point out that advocating rape is not very Christian. I think she just didn't want to have to admit she only wants to follow the teachings of Jesus when it suits her and that was her way of ending the conversation.

[darareaksmey]

"It is a matter of faith."

This is the only one that works, the only one that should work, and the only one that could have foreclosed most of the argument in the first place. E.g.,

Fundy: The Bible says that women working outside the home is wrong.

You: Really? Where? Show me where it says that, in so many words.

Fundy: It does not say it in so many words, but it is clearly Biblical for women to stay at home. It is a matter of faith.

You: Oh, OK then. I disagree 100%, but you are entitled to have faith in whatever beliefs you wish.

That is the point at which I would abandon the argument. But pretty much any other fundy-argument-closer anyone's brought up would deserve a retort.

[kaetrin]

This is the only one that works, the only one that should work, and the only one that could have foreclosed most of the argument in the first place. E.g.,

Fundy: The Bible says that women working outside the home is wrong.

You: Really? Where? Show me where it says that, in so many words.

Fundy: It does not say it in so many words, but it is clearly Biblical for women to stay at home. It is a matter of faith.

You: Oh, OK then. I disagree 100%, but you are entitled to have faith in whatever beliefs you wish.

That is the point at which I would abandon the argument. But pretty much any other fundy-argument-closer anyone's brought up would deserve a retort.

Oh oh oh, that reminds me of my other "favorite" fundie argument closer. When you pin them down because they can't actually show you anywhere in the Bible that says what they say it says, they end with "Well, you have to consider the whole counsel of Scripture on this matter." Which means: "It doesn't actually say that anywhere, but I feel like it should."

(It sounds like emanations of penumbras to me.)

[Burris]

"It is a matter of faith."

I actually see this as a legitimate response insofar as it relates to arguments about God's existence. I absolutely will not engage anyone in an argument about whether or not God exists for one very simple reason: I cannot prove it.

In that context, “It's a matter of faith,†is less about trying to stifle legitimate debate than it is about trying to direct the debate into territory where both sides can actually produce evidence to back their positions.

[JaChelle Sugar]

I was misled by Satin once. I found it to be hot and slippery, and not in a good way. It also tends to cling and show every bulge, not that I have any.

Or misled by Satine that job-working choice-making and worst of all sex-having hussy.

the pic won't post

[StarrieEyedKat]

I wonder if we could start using this when fundies come here to enlighten us:

A friend of a friend used this the other day on facebook and my husband and I almost peed ourselves, it was perfectly utilized.

[melk]

We really need to keep this list compiled somewhere so we can have it on hand the next time a fundie shows up here to "straighten us out." At the very least we can make it a drinking game - a shot for every time they trot out these tired old lines. :twisted:

Does that happen often? I'd love to read a thread like that.

[deelaem]

Does that happen often? I'd love to read a thread like that.

Oh yes, it does happen. Do a search on Knight In Shining Armor for a real doozy. :D