Fundies Closing the Conversation

[emmiedahl]

I have a bad habit of arguing with fundies. Well, to be honest, I love to debate and will do so with anyone over just about anything :D . But debating with fundies is more rewarding because most of them have no idea why they believe what they do. Even if you are using the Bible as a source document it is pretty easy to verbally whoop them. And I feel the need to do so because they want to make their beliefs law.

However, I have noticed that they have ways of shutting down an argument they are losing. There is the flounce, the comment deletion and other methods that are basically the internet equivalent of running away. But there is also a set of statements that they use to close a conversation in such a way that they feel like they have had the last word even though they would totally be losing if this was high school debate team. I sometimes suspect that there is a secret manual with ways for fundies to do this, the same way I suspected my mother had a manual of different ways to say "because I said so" when I was a kid. I thought it would be fun to list all the statements that fundies use to weasel out of an argument they are losing.

"It may be (proven wrong/circular reasoning/completely illogical) but I know it is true!"

"Don't get mad at me; God said it so your problem is with Him (this is even pulled out when you have proven that their beliefs are completely unBiblical, which makes it funnier)."

"It is a matter of faith."

"You aren't Christian (male, Calvinist, etc) so you don't understand."

"It is a deep intellectual argument and I understand if you cannot comprehend it."

Any others?

[dawbs]

this tends to be the ONLY time they "agree to disagree"

On occasion, they claim they will go research that. But that ends up all lies.

[ilovetchotchkes]

I have a bad habit of arguing with fundies. Well, to be honest, I love to debate and will do so with anyone over just about anything :D . But debating with fundies is more rewarding because most of them have no idea why they believe what they do. Even if you are using the Bible as a source document it is pretty easy to verbally whoop them. And I feel the need to do so because they want to make their beliefs law.

However, I have noticed that they have ways of shutting down an argument they are losing. There is the flounce, the comment deletion and other methods that are basically the internet equivalent of running away. But there is also a set of statements that they use to close a conversation in such a way that they feel like they have had the last word even though they would totally be losing if this was high school debate team. I sometimes suspect that there is a secret manual with ways for fundies to do this, the same way I suspected my mother had a manual of different ways to say "because I said so" when I was a kid. I thought it would be fun to list all the statements that fundies use to weasel out of an argument they are losing.

"It may be (proven wrong/circular reasoning/completely illogical) but I know it is true!"

"Don't get mad at me; God said it so your problem is with Him (this is even pulled out when you have proven that their beliefs are completely unBiblical, which makes it funnier)."

"It is a matter of faith."

"You aren't Christian (male, Calvinist, etc) so you don't understand."

"It is a deep intellectual argument and I understand if you cannot comprehend it."

Any others?

"You know, you wouldn't be talking this way, if you knew TRUE : Christianity/Catholicism/etc...."

"I'll pray for you"

[emmiedahl]

Oh, I forgot the "I'll pray for you" one. And that's the most common!

[Witsec7]

The IFBs I argue with online typically resort to name calling, damning me to hell and then using the word 'woman' as a pejorative.

[kaetrin]

In Gothard-speak, "You have a spirit of rebellion" or "You don't have a teachable spirit."

This trope also includes allusions to "casting pearls before swine" and other such expressions which amount to something like "You're just being argumentative and trying to undermine me, and I only talk to people who are genuinely seeking" i.e. people who agree with me.

[emmiedahl]

In Gothard-speak, "You have a spirit of rebellion" or "You don't have a teachable spirit."

This trope also includes allusions to "casting pearls before swine" and other such expressions which amount to something like "You're just being argumentative and trying to undermine me, and I only talk to people who are genuinely seeking" i.e. people who agree with me.

I am argumentative and I totally own it. But I will concede when I have been beat. It might take me a few hours or a few days.

By "genuinely seeking", they mean that you are interested in becoming their religion and will overlook fatal errors in programming. I have btdt with mormon relatives.

[ladidah]

You've forgotten "But the Bible clearly says." :D

[slickcat79]

What was it Bria Crawford said in the other thread? I choose my battles, and you guys are just trying to confuse me!

Pretty much a fail as a comeback, but what can you expect from an undereducated fundie maiden?

[Sola]

You just need to believe.

You are being mislead by Satan (or occasionally Satin - which is very unfair as Satin is a rather nice weave I find).

Just accept that Christ died for you.

You obviously love sinning.

You know that God exists, you're just angry at him.

[emmiedahl]

What was it Bria Crawford said in the other thread? I choose my battles, and you guys are just trying to confuse me!

Pretty much a fail as a comeback, but what can you expect from an undereducated fundie maiden?

I think she said we were trying to challenge her.

:roll: Because she is an authority figure at 18 with no job and no education.

[Guest Anonymous]

I would love to stick around but my husband/children/real life are calling me. (Your life must be so empty if you have time to sit around arguing all day). ;)

[2xx1xy1JD]

Some possible closing responses back:

"It may be (proven wrong/circular reasoning/completely illogical) but I know it is true!"

In your alternate universe, I'm sure it is dear.

"Don't get mad at me; God said it so your problem is with Him (this is even pulled out when you have proven that their beliefs are completely unBiblical, which makes it funnier)."

I guess we have very different ideas about what God said.

"It is a matter of faith."

Yes, it is. Thank you for acknowledging that this really isn't about facts at all.

"You aren't Christian (male, Calvinist, etc) so you don't understand."

You're right. I'm not Christian, etc. and I really don't understand.

"It is a deep intellectual argument and I understand if you cannot comprehend it."

I think you mean theological instead of intellectual, since intellectual arguments tend to be based on logic.

Any others?

Back when I was a member of imamother.com (Orthodox Jewish board), I had to learn an entirely new style of debating because the board rules specifically said that you had to be a married Orthodox woman and were not allowed to post anything that went against Orthodox Jewish teachings. The most infuriating stuff was, "well, Rabbi [ancient rabbi that I never heard of] wrote in his famous work [book that I never heard of] that [completely outrageous statement], and I'm sure you aren't suggesting that you and I have the standing to oppose such a great and holy source!"

[emmiedahl]

I only read the public threads at imamother, but there is some interesting stuff there. I noticed that all of the posters come from one viewpoint, but that is easily explained by how careful they are with letting new people in.

[kpmom]

You are being mislead by Satan (or occasionally Satin - which is very unfair as Satin is a rather nice weave I find).

.

I was misled by Satin once. I found it to be hot and slippery, and not in a good way. It also tends to cling and show every bulge, not that I have any.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

The most infuriating ones for me are "you're so closed-minded" or "you atheists/liberals/etc. are so arrogant, you think you know everything." It's ridiculous since they are the ones who claim to know everything beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Edited for clarification.

[2xx1xy1JD]

It's actually gotten a bit more diverse and sane. The poster who literally made me so crazy that I was about to have a breakdown (Motek) left the board a few years ago. Shalhevet still sometimes drives me a bit crazy, though.

[StacyW]

"But what if you're wrong?"

Context being, there may be only a one in a billion chance there is a god who wants you to live by these rules, but it's easier to play by those rules and avoid Hell.

[samurai_sarah]

"If you knew Him like I do, you wouldn't say that."

"Deep down, you know the truth! You just don't want to hear it."

"He is much greater than we are. So we can't understand everything just yet."

My all-time favourite is "Jesus loves you anyway", which always sounds a bit like an "Eff you" to me.

[Avalondaughter]

The "It's a matter of faith" argument works so well for them because they know faith defies logic and reason. God wants them to shut up and not question it and the rewards will be great (even if you have to die to claim your reward).

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I wonder if we could start using this when fundies come here to enlighten us:

[deelaem]

We really need to keep this list compiled somewhere so we can have it on hand the next time a fundie shows up here to "straighten us out." At the very least we can make it a drinking game - a shot for every time they trot out these tired old lines. :twisted:

[Witsec1]

We really need to keep this list compiled somewhere so we can have it on hand the next time a fundie shows up here to "straighten us out." At the very least we can make it a drinking game - a shot for every time they trot out these tired old lines. :twisted:

i'd be up for that. As long as Experienced is mixing the drinks.

[Witsec7]

i'd be up for that. As long as Experienced is mixing the drinks.

Flora nice to see you today. I was just thinking I needed to take a stroll to get some happy hour material.

[Witsec1]

Have one on me :orcs-cheers: