I can't believe I'm doing this... - Duggar Book Signing

[PennySycamore]

Great pictures, Buzzard! Thanks for sharing them with us.

Does anyone else think that Jinger writes the "J" in her name rather like a "G"? Just connect the two parts of the "J" and bam! you've got a "g".

[ladeedum]

Thanks for the pictures!

My heart breaks for Jana. She really seemed "broken". I wanted to ask her about the camp but didnt want to seem like a stalker (there were plenty of those), and given the close proximity to Michelle I didnt think I'd get an answer. We talked about what she should do while in the city.

It's so sad. I really think she's in the re-training process.

I think the difference between Joy and Jana is that although both seemed depressed and suppressed, Jana hides her feelings better so she doesn't always looks so damn grouchy like Joy.

Did Jana sound normal/ polite when she spoke to you?

[Lillybee]

Thanks for the pictures!

It's so sad. I really think she's in the re-training process.

I think the difference between Joy and Jana is that although both seemed depressed and suppressed, Jana hides her feelings better so she doesn't always looks so damn grouchy like Joy.

Did Jana sound normal/ polite when she spoke to you?

I have spent most of the day thinking about Jana. I am really worried about her. Some fundie families do something referred to as staking.

The rebellious child is forced to stay within 5 feet of the mother until they change. It is usually done for young children but I wonder if that is

what is going on with Jana.

[3 is enough]

I have spent most of the day thinking about Jana. I am really worried about her. Some fundie families do something referred to as staking.

The rebellious child is forced to stay within 5 feet of the mother until they change. It is usually done for young children but I wonder if that is

what is going on with Jana.

Wow. That's scary. But even scarier is the fact that Jana is a GROWN WOMAN, not a child. I really hope we are all just over-reacting.

The hypocrisy is truly mind-boggling. JB and Michelle were married at 19 and 17, with parental permission, no less. Yet Jana, at 21 is kept on a short leash.

Free Jana!

[clarinetpower]

I would have had a fit if I had seen them turning over books. When I worked at B & N, people used to come in and do that all the time and I wanted to smack them. It was usually conservatives turning around books about Obama or Hillary or Christians hiding/turning over lesbian or gay books. It's so annoying. It's not like the books disappeared -- we would turn them back around. It just made our lives harder. Real Christian charity there.

I admit to turning over Anne Coulter's books.

Sorry about that.

:twisted:

[clarinetpower]

BTW, regarding the jewish star, check this out:

theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/03/why-did-sarah-palin-wear-a-star-of-david-in-israel/72884/

Apparently, it's an evangelical christian thing to show support for Israel.

[ChunkyBarbie]

Great pictures and fun recap of your Duggarly day. It made me almost as happy as a big glass of wine, er, grape juice.

[DamnPrecious]

I just looked through the pics, and all the children look bored and squirmy (as little children are wont to be in bookstores where they're NOT ALLOWED TO LOOK AT THE PRETTY BOOKS), or actually quite vibrant. With the exception of Jana, of course. The best way I can describe it is that her smile doesn't reach her eyes.

*Puts on smarty-pants glasses* My best guess? She's depressed, and significantly so. She is at the most common age for onset (between 15-25), and living in a home where she most likely cannot spread her wings, dream, or get ten minutes to spend some time soul-searching.

She and JD are less than a month younger than me, and as someone who suffered through a severe case of adolescent onset depression, Jana is in a world of trouble if that is indeed the problem and she doesn't get help. Her emotional and intellectual growth has been stunted by being so sheltered, and I'm sure her parents wouldn't be supportive, but instead try to reprogram her. She may not have the tools to express how she feels and certainly not to get the proper therapy/medication that she needs, so she will probably turn inwards to let off some of the stress, so she's a ripe candidate for self-mutilation (especially with all the clothing they wear...sheesh! she could easily hide cuts and burns), or a little more unusually, self-starvation or other harming behaviors (the route I ended up going down, since I was a dance student and couldn't hide cutting and wear a leotard all the time). I took years to fully recover, and I had wonderfully supportive family members and teachers and the best medicine, doctors, and information my parents could obtain.

I realize that this sounds melodramatic, but the fact is, unless depression is nipped in the bud, it can destroy a person, and it's painful for me to see someone who could theoretically be a friend or classmate go through something I wouldn't wish on my enemies.

Poor Jana. I want to have her live with me. I'm kinda messy and swear like a sailor, but I love to feed and mother people and have lots of books and candy to share and she can come to my classes and learn stuff about feminism, literature, ethnocentrism, evolution, and art!

Or we can just watch Harry Potter movies and do mud masks. I'm really ok with either option. I just want her to laugh and enjoy being young!

I was actually thinking that she looked a lot thinner there.

[TheJewAmongUs]

Oh, and it wasnt moms turning the books around as I thought while I was there. It was Duggar Handlers that was doing that. Josh and the "little" kids had their backs to the eebil teenage books and were staring at the puppy books. I did find it ironic that Michelle had the extra copies of her books in the dog breeding section...

I was imagining the Duggars having helpers who were chasing away cleavage, and monitoring the kids who they didn't read books. I didn't ask because it was more like, "dare I hope!" But thank you for confirming, haha, sounds awesome.

[slickcat79]

Of course Jana looks depressed, but I think everyone is overlooking Joy. No young teenager should have dark eye circles like that. Either she's overwhelmed with work, or she has some kind of health problem (dark eye circles were the first sign of anemia for me when I was about Joy's age). But by the look on her face, it seems like she's just sooo tired. I bet she has been taking on way more chores than ever in an effort to get some of the older girls married off to get ratings up. No 13 year-old should look that tired and listless.

I know it's potentially serious, but I can't help but think about the little girl from kid farm who wanted to buy the broccoli: "Sometimes...my bones hurt!"

I get the feeling that especially on days when they have "events", they really don't get enough sleep. J'chelle has mentioned how they are "night owls", which I think translates to "We can't get the little kids settled down by a reasonable hour, so we all have to stay up late". Add in traveling, potentially having to share a bed or bunk with a smaller sibling and it would be really easy to get worn out. Joy is probably too young to partake of the free starbucks too, so no caffeine jolt.

[Guest LilaFowler]

I wonder if the girls get marriage proposals during these book signings.

[Buzzard]

I'm quite sure. There were some FUHREEEEKIE people on that line - including the tool behind me that missed a wedding and drove hours to see them!

Oddly, no frumpers in any form!

[camdendayton]

I wonder if the girls get marriage proposals during these book signings.

:) And if so what does JB do if they ask the girls directly??? The horrors :o

[Buzzard]

I'm sure they're trained to smile sweetly and give some type of safe word to alert the handlers.

[ladypuglover]

Buzzard, I have a question for you. After meeting the Duggars did you somehow feel dirty? Like you just witnessed something un-holy or vile and wished you could un-do it? Cause that is sort of how I felt after meeting Smugger Sr., DQ and Smugger Jr. and of Smugger Jr. A very weird, creepy feeling for days after.

[xDreamerx]

Buzzard, I have a question for you. After meeting the Duggars did you somehow feel dirty? Like you just witnessed something un-holy or vile and wished you could un-do it? Cause that is sort of how I felt after meeting Smugger Sr., DQ and Smugger Jr. and of Smugger Jr. A very weird, creepy feeling for days after.

This made me laugh so much, especially "Of Smugger Jr." lmao. Oh dear.

Someone said Joy was too young for coffee? I've had coffee since I was 10 and I turned out fine. By 13, you should know how to handle your caffeine :)

I have turned books over of Neo-cons I don't like. Beck, Coulter (especially after the Jew comments even though I'm not a Jew), O'Reilly who I'm pretty sure pisses off normal Irish Catholics everywhere. I also like to sneak poetry books into other sections. Stick a little Ginsberg, Stein, or someone else radical in with the Christian advice books. Who knows maybe I'll be some kid's Timothy Leary of books? I can only hope.

[Buzzard]

Buzzard, I have a question for you. After meeting the Duggars did you somehow feel dirty? Like you just witnessed something un-holy or vile and wished you could un-do it? Cause that is sort of how I felt after meeting Smugger Sr., DQ and Smugger Jr. and of Smugger Jr. A very weird, creepy feeling for days after.

I think the best description of how I feel is SAD. Smuggar was always smuggar, right down the the episode when he was defending his family during the "ask the duggars" segment. He was quite happy with how his life has turned out. Jinger did seem to have her own "edge" and she expressed an individuality I hadnt seen in any of the other kids. Jana was pathetic and sad. You just wanted to hand her a tissue and tell her she had the power and a choice.

Joy looked like the life had been sucked out of her. She's not the little kid anymore that could play... The little boys interacted with some of the other kids their age (I think there's a picture of one of the little boys) but you could see they werent just playing, there was still quite a bit of reservation.

Michelle was very sweet and seemed to take a real interest in the people (who were dressed appropriately). JB took time to speak to everyone, he really seemed to feel that he was spreading something besides a disease by offering his life as a witness.

I'm sad. I'm sad because I couldnt/didnt say what I wanted to. Sad because those kids have the same chance of success that the kids I see in the hood with crackhead parents. Sad because they have all the potential in the world but are being exploited and imprisoned by the people "god" entrusted them to.

[ladypuglover]

I think the best description of how I feel is SAD. Smuggar was always smuggar, right down the the episode when he was defending his family during the "ask the duggars" segment. He was quite happy with how his life has turned out. Jinger did seem to have her own "edge" and she expressed an individuality I hadnt seen in any of the other kids. Jana was pathetic and sad. You just wanted to hand her a tissue and tell her she had the power and a choice.

Joy looked like the life had been sucked out of her. She's not the little kid anymore that could play... The little boys interacted with some of the other kids their age (I think there's a picture of one of the little boys) but you could see they werent just playing, there was still quite a bit of reservation.

Michelle was very sweet and seemed to take a real interest in the people (who were dressed appropriately). JB took time to speak to everyone, he really seemed to feel that he was spreading something besides a disease by offering his life as a witness.

I'm sad. I'm sad because I couldnt/didnt say what I wanted to. Sad because those kids have the same chance of success that the kids I see in the hood with crackhead parents. Sad because they have all the potential in the world but are being exploited and imprisoned by the people "god" entrusted them to.

Yes, to all of it. I did feel sad for some days afterwards and I couldn't put a tack on it of why. I felt so weird that I made my husband put the Duggar photos in a different folder so they wouldn't mix in with the photos I use as a screen saver. It was really upsetting to see a picture of Smugger Jr when I had just finished my breakfast. :? :?

[Buzzard]

I can totally understand not wanting to see smuggar first thing in the morning! But really, those kids made me sad.

[Sweetpea1]

So sad. So very, very sad.

[muffynbear]

I have spent most of the day thinking about Jana. I am really worried about her. Some fundie families do something referred to as staking.

The rebellious child is forced to stay within 5 feet of the mother until they change. It is usually done for young children but I wonder if that is

what is going on with Jana.

I found an article about this practice: http://nolongerquivering.com/tag/tomato-staking/

As she grows older, should she dare to be “wayward†in any way she can expect to be chastised with the rod or, in more humane families, may be “tomato staked†meaning she is expected to stay right with Mama and do only what she is told to do for a set period of time.

I feel like the "issue" that Jana is having with is mostly with Michelle. I don't know, but I feel like there's a lot of underlying resentment. Just speculation of course. I mean wouldn't you be pissed if you were 21 and worked for Mommy and Daddy for free? While said parents lay in their bed all day fucking like rabbits? Yeah, I'd be pissed too.

[ladeedum]

Plus the fact that Michelle keeps getting all these Mother of the Year Awards. It must suck for her.

I'm sure both Jill and Jana love the kids but I think Jana helps out with the children because she HAS to while Jill helps out because she WANTS to and they've been doing it for half their lives at least. There has got to be simmering unhappiness there. Plus Jana is the "oldest" and seems to have all the responsibilities thrown on her.

[xReems]

It would not surprise me if her resentment is towards Michelle. Here's a 21 year old, living at home, and raising her siblings while Michelle is off attempting to have more children and receiving all these awards for being the an amazing mother while normal 21 year olds are trying to find themselves in this world. Yeah, Jill is out getting a head start on her career but you know that has to stop once she's married because God believes women should live at home, serve her husband, and take care of "God's gifts".

I think Jana just feels suffocated with everything. I feel like talking about certain things to Michelle is going to be like talking to a wall-it's not going to do anything except she'll just send her to retraining camp or pray for guidance. I know that if I had an older daughter who felt this depressed, I'd take a step back and try to understand her frustration and help her out-not "retrain" her back to what she is suppose to do. The sad thing is that she may not be able to escape, unless she finds a guy who has similar beliefs as her after marriage but I HIGHLY doubt that'll happen, with JimBob being the final person to decide if this guy is right for her or not--or, she'll just continue to remain to be a SAHD until she's 30.

I seriously feel bad for Jana-I can't even began to think how she's feeling, what's going through her mind, etc.

[camdendayton]

Yes, to all of it. I did feel sad for some days afterwards and I couldn't put a tack on it of why. I felt so weird that I made my husband put the Duggar photos in a different folder so they wouldn't mix in with the photos I use as a screen saver. It was really upsetting to see a picture of Smugger Jr when I had just finished my breakfast. :? :?

This made me think of those UC police officers who found Jaycee Dugard. They were just 2 women who's spidey-senses went off. They knew something was wrong, even if they couldn't pin-point once. Due to their ungodly jobs (SA) they were able to do something about it. Unfortunately, there is not much, if anything, we can do to stop the Duggar machine.

[Buzzard]

I dont understand all this "staking" and "retraining". Michelle was a fucking cheerleader in a public school and found her way towards this life. Are they not confident enough in their parenting skills to allow their ADULT daughter some freedom and see if she comes back? And what if she doesnt? What the fuck does that mean? Guess what, morons... just because you stick her out in the woods for a week and beat her with a bible doesnt mean she wont book it the second she gets married if thats what it takes!

Poor Jana, poor girls...