Fundie lite youth groups, stupid, dangerous a la Jackass

[Mompom]

churchleaders.com/youth/youth-leaders-blogs/144568-week-of-stupid-youth-ministry-moments-day-1.html

worldmag.com/articles/6259

After seeing (via Fb photos) a youth group practice an initiation over the weekend where they duct taped kids hands to a bed post and saran wrapped and duct taped the bodies to the bunkbeds, I started researching youth group initiations and wow. Really, I wouldn't let my kid within 50 feet of these organizations. There is no oversight. There are stupid, juvenile leaders leading these groups. I am reminded of some of my own experiences as a kid in youth group and really there were quite a few times when I could have been seriously injured. But you know that is ALL okay, but believe the wrong way about something and God will send you to hell! :roll:

[Alecto]

I think most of this would qualify as hazing, which is illegal, at least in most US states.

[Mompom]

That was my belief too, Alecto! At least about the initiation. Idiots. Especially when adults are involved. And I've reported the photos. What makes it tricky is the parent of the child posted the photos. :evil: But in the links I posted a youth pastor talks about letting kids ride on the roof of a car while the youth leader is driving. I really think the independent churches with no affiliations, policies, or procedures are the most dangerous. I think people should be warned, but I just don't know how to do it.

This youth leader is proud of his stupidity.

http://whyismarko.com/2010/crazy-and-st ... y-moments/

[Mompom]

Here's another story, I have to admit... I am actually kind of shocked that people are getting away with this idiocy. In any other job, anywhere, you would be fired. In the church world? Well, whatever it takes to "get down on their level"! Grrrrrrr.

Adam Walker Cleaveland August 30, 2010 at 4:02 pm

It all started with the game “heavy.â€

You know….the mingling game where you say, “Heavy……ELBOW†and magically your elbow becomes the heaviest part of your body and it has to touch the floor. So we were doing that w/middle schoolers and we ended it with “Heavy……..TONGUE!†And 4 kids did it. We only had 1 Twinkie to give the winner, so we decided we’ve have them lick the linoleum floor and whoever made it the furthest would win the Twinkie.

But they didn’t stop. So we had them go out the room and down the hallway…..then over some rocky flooring…then over the carpet into the sanctuary (granted…….it was a *small* church, but….still) and then back.

After taking some photos, and on the way back, a little voice inside my head said, “This is stupid…..probably should stop it.†So I called it a tie (they had to split the Twinkie) and asked them to take photos of their tongues.

Both girls had bloody…..bloody tongues.

One was like bloody and dirty too.

Another girl came to youth group the next week and showed me her tongue…it was all infected – she had to go to the doctor and take some spray for her tongue for a couple weeks.

Yup.

Now THAT was stupid.

[Mompom]

Isaac Terwilleger August 30, 2010 at 9:19 pm

I think mine takes the cake so far. I was the new youth pastor in our area and had been invited by a seasoned youth pastor to attend an area-wide junior high retreat. We had groups there from 60 miles away. All the other youth pastors had done this retreat before, and all had been in youth ministry for years.

During the game “what would you do for a candy bar,†I found myself standing in the back of the room. The youth pastor leading the game heard a teen say he’d be willing to drink toilet water. So the youth pastor called my name and asked me to get the boy some toilet water to drink, and that I had to be the witness to make sure he drank it all. Keep in mind, I’m the new guy, with seasoned youth pastors, and I have less than a year of experience (so like a brainless lemming, I follow orders like a good youth pastor).

So I take the boy into the bathroom and fill the cup with toilet water. After he downs the first glass I tell him something along the lines of, “a real man would drink two glasses.†So the boy does.

All is done and great, right? WRONG!!! The boy, who wasn’t even in my youth ministry, ends up getting REALLY sick the night he got home from the retreat. He ends up in the hospital. So the health department gets involved and has to drive the 30+ miles to the camp to do water testing and investigate the camp for “other alternatives†for how the boy got so sick. The boy ends up staying in the hospital overnight and is released in the morning.

The lead youth pastor of the retreat then calls me after getting a call from the camp, or the health department, or the youth pastor, or the mother, or someone. When the youth pastor identifies himself, I instantly had a sinking feeling in my gut. It all the sudden hit me what I could have caused (it took a phone call, 3 days after the retreat to wake me up to what I could have caused). He was just calling to verify that I had given the boy a cup of water with coffee grounds in it (like they normally did at the retreat). “Oh no,†I say, “I gave him two full cups of toilet water.†His response, “Oh Isaac, you could have just shut is down.â€

Literally right after I get off the phone with the retreat’s lead youth pastor, I walk down the hall, into the conference room for my 6-month review. After hearing how great a job I had been doing, the two elders asked if I had anything to share with them. So I shared about the situation I was in literally at that moment regarding the investigation and the boy in the hospital.

They were VERY supportive, nothing ever came of the incident, but the story of my stupidity lives on in our area. Oh yeah, I’ve now been at the church for almost 10 years, and continue to do those area-wide retreats… although I’m not allowed to help lead any games!

Top that!

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: And he's still there. WTH?

[Guest Anonymous]

That was my belief too, Alecto! At least about the initiation. Idiots. Especially when adults are involved. And I've reported the photos. What makes it tricky is the parent of the child posted the photos. :evil: But in the links I posted a youth pastor talks about letting kids ride on the roof of a car while the youth leader is driving. I really think the independent churches with no affiliations, policies, or procedures are the most dangerous. I think people should be warned, but I just don't know how to do it.

This youth leader is proud of his stupidity.

http://whyismarko.com/2010/crazy-and-st ... y-moments/

From that site:

Accelerated a full van of students pulling a trailer toward a freeway barricade as a joke, not thinking about how hard it would be to stop with all that weight. We stopped, but my heart almost did also.

WHAT. I'm sorry, I thought youth ministers were supposed to lead kids to Jesus, not send them to him. He could have killed those children and he thinks it's a big joke.

Gobsmacked.

[Kelya]

My own story- when I was in 8th grade I went to Mormon Girls Camp with my friend at the time. We got split up for a big evening activity, a Faith Walk. It ended up being a bunch of fifteen and sixteen year old girls leading 11-14 year old girls through the woods and to a lake, stopping at different radios they'd hidden in the woods to listen to worship music and discuss the topic of the music.

But we got lost and missed two stations, and our leader was like "I don't know where we are." Okay, I'm freaking out at this point. Suddenly we're surrounded by a bunch of girls who say we're just down the road from the next station and camp, but could someone come help them put out the post dinner snacks?

I say sure, and start to walk off with them. My friend's friend follows me being like "Kelya, don't go!" and I'm like "I want to be helpful! I'm a guest here! Its okay, I don't mind missing the last station!" She trails behind us and eventually goes off somewhere else. Then I'm standing in a parking lot with these girls and they say we're supposed to wait for the others. So we're waiting, and suddenly they start SCREAMING AT ME, surrounding me, telling me I've fallen off the path from grace, I'm a sinner, etc.

I start screaming bloody murder and run from them screaming. I literally run into a camp director who's like, what's up? are you okay? is there a bear?! And I scream "CALL MY PARENTS RIGHT NOW OR I AM CALLING THE POLICE YOU ARE EVIL CALL RIGHT NOW DO NOT TOUCH ME DO NOT COME ANY CLOSER I AM GOING HOME AND I AM SUING!!!"

So they call my parents, I get on the phone, give a three sentence explanation, they come down to get me (its like a forty five minute drive.) In the meantime they explain what was supposed to happen- we'd been warned not to leave our faith walk groups and the girls asking for help were supposed to be temptation- if you followed them you were straying from the herd and were supposed to repent, etc. The "temptation" girls came in an apologized to me and everyone was like "aww yay!" but I could tell the camp directors were pissed and very nervous. At this point I just agreed with everything and was like "sure fine whatever" and got the hell out of there. Meanwhile, my big Catholic family is at home trying to figure out why helping people set up snacks is evil

Later I found out they called my parents and asked if I was okay, and talked around the bush about if we were suing, talking to a lawyer, etc. And in retrospect, the camp was very white except for one group from a very impoverished area nearby, who were black, and that group was the "temptation" group. I'm wondering now if the latent racism was intentional or not.

[Mompom]

My own story- when I was in 8th grade I went to Mormon Girls Camp with my friend at the time. We got split up for a big evening activity, a Faith Walk. It ended up being a bunch of fifteen and sixteen year old girls leading 11-14 year old girls through the woods and to a lake, stopping at different radios they'd hidden in the woods to listen to worship music and discuss the topic of the music.

But we got lost and missed two stations, and our leader was like "I don't know where we are." Okay, I'm freaking out at this point. Suddenly we're surrounded by a bunch of girls who say we're just down the road from the next station and camp, but could someone come help them put out the post dinner snacks?

I say sure, and start to walk off with them. My friend's friend follows me being like "Kelya, don't go!" and I'm like "I want to be helpful! I'm a guest here! Its okay, I don't mind missing the last station!" She trails behind us and eventually goes off somewhere else. Then I'm standing in a parking lot with these girls and they say we're supposed to wait for the others. So we're waiting, and suddenly they start SCREAMING AT ME, surrounding me, telling me I've fallen off the path from grace, I'm a sinner, etc.

I start screaming bloody murder and run from them screaming. I literally run into a camp director who's like, what's up? are you okay? is there a bear?! And I scream "CALL MY PARENTS RIGHT NOW OR I AM CALLING THE POLICE YOU ARE EVIL CALL RIGHT NOW DO NOT TOUCH ME DO NOT COME ANY CLOSER I AM GOING HOME AND I AM SUING!!!"

So they call my parents, I get on the phone, give a three sentence explanation, they come down to get me (its like a forty five minute drive.) In the meantime they explain what was supposed to happen- we'd been warned not to leave our faith walk groups and the girls asking for help were supposed to be temptation- if you followed them you were straying from the herd and were supposed to repent, etc. The "temptation" girls came in an apologized to me and everyone was like "aww yay!" but I could tell the camp directors were pissed and very nervous. At this point I just agreed with everything and was like "sure fine whatever" and got the hell out of there. Meanwhile, my big Catholic family is at home trying to figure out why helping people set up snacks is evil

Later I found out they called my parents and asked if I was okay, and talked around the bush about if we were suing, talking to a lawyer, etc. And in retrospect, the camp was very white except for one group from a very impoverished area nearby, who were black, and that group was the "temptation" group. I'm wondering now if the latent racism was intentional or not.

Good grief! That must have been pretty traumatic for a kid, Kelya! And Lissar, yes... TOTALLY gobsmacked. And group after group has posted this all over the net. I never knew such idiocy was happening near me!

And here's another link, because nothing says "have trust" like violating someone's trust!

Seriously, these are such stupid leaders. None of the kids look like they think it's funny.

And here's another one because nothing says, "Welcome!" like making someone eat fake poop!

[debrand]

Shouldn't the police and CPS get involved with some of these groups? What they are doing has to be illegal.

edited because I obviously can't write an intelligent sentence the first time.

[Terrie]

Jay-zus. The "worst" my youth group ever did was have a nerf gun battle. That and our youth pastor taught us how to add "in bed" to the of our fortune cookies. (Our church was UCC. Very liberal and laid back).

ETA: Oh, wait. During a lock-in, one kid convinced the group leaders to rent Akira for us in junior high (12-13). It's a cartoon, right? :lol: They made us turn it off when the guy's intestines fell out.

[mystweaver]

Shouldn't the police and CPS get involved with some of these groups? What they are doing has to be illegal.

Yes, this. My church's youth group wasn't that bad (40+ year old youth pastor was a little more mature than the average youth worker--capture the flag with water balloons was as edgy as we got), but some of the camps I attended and later worked for should have been shut down. (One of them was shut down after a counselor molested a camper...but the fact that they sent 5+ kids to the ER the year before in one day wasn't mentioned.) We took kids backpacking without inhalers, didn't keep track medication, transferred daily medication to unmarked yellow envelopes, had a high school sophomore as the camp 'nurse' on several day backpacking outings, etc. And that wasn't even the activities. :shock:

The stupidity isn't illegal, except in extreme cases of child endangerment (e.g. the car stunts). Civilly liable, probably, but not criminally.

I wish there was more regulation on these camps, and I would wholeheartedly work for it if I knew someone was working on it. Right now, it just takes 'a heart for ministry' to start a camp with less oversight than the average SODRT.

[genericJname]

Oh yes, I am not a fan of youth ministry. I remember all the stupid games feeling so degrading.

One time, in 7th grade, we went to "inner city" retreat where we stayed in the bad part of town for the weekend. One night they actually sent us panhandling for our dinner $$ :shock: I cannot believe parents didn't freak out about that. Really, is it helping the homeless to send a bunch of bratty suburban 12 yr olds out begging for change? We also ended up basically stealing a big mac and sprite from McDs.

[Mompom]

Wow that is weird! Panhandling?

Why do people disrespect kids so incredibly much that they would do this? Am I just super out of touch with reality here, or is that an arrestable offense? Child endangerment? Child abuse? Hazing?