Bro Gary Hawkins 24: Smoking Meat

[AmazonGrace]

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Ok folks everyone is preparing for the eclipse tomorrow. What about Church today and the LORD coming. Where is our priorities? If someone says a storm or something is coming we go and get prepared we save the LORD is coming nothing happens. Sad days where in. LORD help us.

Gary posted this and someone commented:

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MOG brother Gary please come and hold a revival with me here in Kenya teach preach baptize us ordain pastors and establish your work here since we are working independently without a good foundation ground of God's word

Why would they need Gary to ordain pastors? They can go to the local village square, throw some stones blindfolded and hit a dozen people who are just as qualified as Gary to ordain anything.

[Alisamer]

On 4/6/2024 at 9:50 PM, Joyster said:

 

  Hide contents

 

Wow, there's one whole sentence in there that is written correctly! Amazing!
 

I'm not sure if I'm glad Gary seems to know what the eclipse is or if I'm skeptical that he actually understood what he was reposting. In any case it seems he's on a roll. One scientifically correct repost and a sentence that's correct!

[Expectopatronus]

3 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Gary posted this and someone commented:

Why would they need Gary to ordain pastors? They can go to the local village square, throw some stones blindfolded and hit a dozen people who are just as qualified as Gary to ordain anything.

I sincerely hope he is mocking Gary and this request is facetious. 

[Alisamer]

On 4/8/2024 at 5:38 PM, Expectopatronus said:

I sincerely hope he is mocking Gary and this request is facetious. 

I hope so but am doubtful.

These are people who would consider a Catholic monastery a great place to go witness, to convert the clergy there over to what they consider the correct sort of Christian, using the correct Bible. 

[thoughtful]

Gary posted this three days ago. I guess Jesus didn't come that night.

 

Also, it sounds like he is contradicting what he always preaches. I'm pretty sure he always says that Jesus doesn't even know when he is supposed to return - only God, and this sounds like he thinks Jesus knows the date. But maybe it's just Gary being incoherent.

[thoughtful]

Catching up on Family Baptist services:

On Wednesday evening, 3/27, Baker makes a weird passive-aggressive comment about how people find other things to do on Resurrection Sunday, when they should all go to church. Prayer requests include some actually nice things, then on to praying for the jail ministry and Onesimus House. He lists the things they help restore for people - God, family, community, jobs, etc., and ends with driver's licence.

That's his segue for "While we're praying for license, pray for Brother Gary. Uh, he was drag racin', lost his li - no, uh, sorry - wrong story.* Uh, so, Brother Gary's tryin' to get his passenger endorsement on a CDL. ** You didn't see that - uh, I didn't tell 'em. Uh, good one, good one. *** Tryin' t'get the passenger endorsement on his CDL so he can uh, help us out with the bus, and um, the government doesn't know - I know it's a shock - the government doesn't know what they're doing, and even though it's somethin' as simple as that, it's been a mess, so pray that Brother Gary will be able to get that, and uh, be a help, and anybody else that wants to, uhhhh, get that too."

In case that wasn't clear:

* his attempt at a joke.

** A CDL is a commercial driver's license.

*** I have no idea what the joke was here - it may have been something someone in the congregation said that couldn't be heard, it may have just been his jumping back to the drag racing joke and praising himself.

So Gary is having trouble getting qualified to drive a bus. He has driven school and church buses in the past, so my curiosity is piqued. Are there things on his record that are problematic? Is it just the particular red tape of Tennessee?

I didn't listen to the bible study.

[thoughtful]

On March 31, Resurrection Sunday, aka Easter, after lots of singing and some announcements, Baker says, "Guests, we're glad that you're here. Church is called Family Baptist  Church. Three big things we try to promote; one is to have a church family for your family. Every family needs a church family of brothers and sisters in Christ. Number two, to make sure that you are born into the family of God. If you've never been born again, if you do not know for sure if you died if you'd go to heaven, you need to have that happen. Then also, marriages and families - they're under attack. The World, the flesh, the devil want to attack marriages and families to mess them up, and we want to be here as a church to help you with your marriage, to help you with your children, to help you with your family, to have a wonderful Godly family and a good Godly marriage, uh, we desperately need it on this earth. And that's what we're about, and that's what we're for, and we're glad that you're here, Uh, we're not gonna make you stand, pray in public, you don't have to announce or do anything, just relax. That little tear-out in the side of the bulletin, if you could fill that out and drop it in the offering plate here or in the back, or just give it to one of us, we appreciate that."

He goes on to tell them that there are baptisms planned for the end of the service, but the heater isn't working. However, the baptizees checked the water temperature and said they were still willing to go through with it.

After more singing, he begins his pre-sermon prayer with, "Lord thank you. Again, for this special Sunday, it's amazing, even though most of the world is not Christian, and many of the Christians don't even practice, today is something special to the world."

So, in full IFB, Bakerish fashion, even the greeting for guests and the prayer have to get digs in about people who aren't doing it right, and the battle with The World.

Then he belts out a solo - He's Alive.

He announces John chapter 18, but doesn't read yet. He says it's hard to choose what to preach on Easter because there's so much to the story. He goes on for a long, long time, listing all of the bad things in the story that precede the resurrection.

Well, Dave, other church traditions solve this problem by having rituals and services for Holy Week, but you think they're not real Christians, so there's that. Of course, you and your IFB buddies get many, many sermons out of all of the gruesome stuff, all year, so it's not like you really need to cover it on Easter.

I wish IFB preachers would either actually stick to their determination to never quote the Hebrew or Greek, or learn how to pronounce them correctly. His attempt at "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani" is hysterical.

Finally, he reads from John. He tells them they should read it through, but that he wants to focus on one thing, without which "what we are about is a hoax. We're wastin' our time, an' this is a farce. I oughta quit the ministry and we oughta never have church again if this one thing. Didn't happen."

Sounds good to me.

Hey, everybody, can you guess what that one thing is?

He does the routine we've heard from Gary so many times, about how the leaders of other religions are dead. He adds earthly leaders, as well, with yet another hysterical mispronunciation: "The resurrection is proof that Christianity is real! Any other religion in the world, where's their leader? Mohammed? In the grave. Confucius? In the grave. Buddha? In the grave. Uh, Stalin, Mayo, any of the leaders and powerful people of the world, we can take you and show you, here is where they are buried."

Yes, he pronounces Mao as if he was in a Hellman's jar.

He says that all he needs is a bible and Jesus living in his heart, but "it's amazing to see the proof and logic, so much so, that even an unsaved atheist in The World has a hard time refuting these truths."

He starts listing them - I suspect it will be along the lines of Gary Habermas' minimal facts (so minimal that he's just published a 1072 page book about them, and it's only volume one - there's more to come!).

I think I'll listen to his list later. For now, though, I just can't stand to hear him say one more smug word.

 

 

 

Edited April 14 by thoughtful

[Xan]

So an unsaved atheist has questions about everything else but that bit about Jesus rising from the dead is just a fact.  Hmmmm...  I feel like I'm missing something here.  It isn't as if the entire world believes in resurrection, Baker.  There are even Christians who feel like that story has a few plot holes.

Glad to hear, though, that Mayo stays buried.  Some things you just don't want to see after they've been underground for a while.

.......................

I sometimes wonder if Baker and Gary and the rest of these nincompoops realize that they're doing more damage to religion than they're helping it?  The more I hear Baker, the less I believe in anything.

[thoughtful]

On to Baker's list of things that prove the resurrection.

#1. "The empty tomb. One of the foundational aspects of Christianity is there's no body there, OK? To convict someone of a death you have to have a body, that's part of law. Um, Jesus - where's his body? It's not there - the tomb is empty."

He goes on to talk about the soldiers guarding the body, how they lied to say they were bribed and the body stolen, about the rock rolled in front of it, and goes back to talking about how other religious and world leaders are in their tombs.

"You can find it, you can go. You can go to the garden tomb in Israel and you can go there and you can walk in and see - " dramatic pause, lowered voice -  "He isn't there."

Gee, Dave - where is the body of anyone who was crucified 2000 years ago? Long-since decomposed. There is no reason to believe that the garden tomb was where Jesus' body was placed - victims of crucifixion were left to rot or thrown into mass graves - but, even if it was, being resurrected is not the most likely explanation for why it's not there now.

Also, Dave, other than Lenin, how many religious and world leader's actual bodies can we see if we visit their final resting places? Did you dig them up and do a DNA test on whatever was left, for each of them?

The story of the empty tomb is meaningless to anyone who doesn't believe that bible stories actually happened.

#2. "Jesus. Appearing. After. He rose from the dead. There's something in a court of law called an eyewitness - everybody got that? Ya have a murder, and ya have an eyewitness - 'Yes I saw him do it.'"

Besides the disciples and James, he cites the 500 people who supposedly saw Jesus rise from the dead. Again, this is not proof of anything - nobody knows where this idea of 500 people came from. In fact, they aren't even mentioned in the gospels - the only mention of them in the Bible is Paul telling the Corinthians the story.

He talks about the women who came to the tomb. He says it's in all four gospels, but sidesteps the fact that they contradict one another. Then on to the disciples, including Thomas sticking his hand in.

He reads the passage from Paul that I mentioned above, and rants about the 500 again, and how "you might could pay off one or two or three," but you can't deny 500.

Sure I can, Dave!

He talks about Jesus being on the earth after his death. He says it was 50 days - um, no, Dave - it was 40. He realizes his error when he starts reading Acts:

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1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,

2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

The bible says they were infallible proofs, so there. He goes on and on about how nobody can deny it because they were infallible and infallible, and also infallible. He returns to his courtroom analogy, saying that a case with about 600 witnesses would be dismissed, and he repeats a lot of what he's already said.

Again, unless someone already believes that the bible is all true, historical facts, this doesn't do the trick.

That's enough for one post - on to #3 next time.

Edited April 13 by thoughtful
fixing riffles and errors

[Joyster]

22 hours ago, thoughtful said:

So Gary is having trouble getting qualified to drive a bus. He has driven school and church buses in the past, so my curiosity is piqued. Are there things on his record that are problematic? Is it just the particular red tape of Tennessee?

Ok, I listened to Wednesday’s night prayer time, and it makes more sense now. I think Gary was asking for prayer for his CDL test. It was hard to hear, but he sounded excited. He expressed happiness that he just had to pass a test for a CDL and not go to school. Attending school seemed to be worrisome to him. I was hoping he was getting a long haul truck driver job. I thought truck driving would quench his thirst for being on the road and  be productive. So much for the thought of Gary doing something beneficial.

[thoughtful]

2 minutes ago, Joyster said:

Ok, I listened to Wednesday’s night prayer time, and it makes more sense now. I think Gary was asking for prayer for his CDL test. It was hard to hear, but he sounded excited. He expressed happiness that he just had to pass a test for a CDL and not go to school. Attending school seemed to be worrisome to him. I was hoping he was getting a long haul truck driver job. I thought truck driving would quench his thirst for being on the road and  be productive. So much for the thought of Gary doing something beneficial.

Thanks. I just listened to that one.

The one I'd heard, from a previous Wednesday, was all Baker - I don't think Gary was even there. And he clearly wanted it so he'll have another church bus driver. If Gary has any plans beyond that, we still don't know.

What Baker said that evening made me think that all Gary needs is to be legal to drive passengers (it's called a passenger endorsement) - I don't know if he already has a Tennessee CDL or not. We know he went out on the trash trucks, but not if he drove.

Here are some practice tests, if anyone wants to think about how Gary will do:

https://www.cristcdl.com/tennessee/tn-cdl-practice-tests/passenger-1/

[Joyster]

Based on the practice test, I can drive the church bus with an 88%! I should NOT drive a bus. I am a good multiple choice taker and used common sense, so I think Gary might need to study.

[thoughtful]

#3 on David Baker's list of absolute, atheist-convincing proofs of the resurrection: "The transformation of the disciples. How - how solid were the disciples when Jesus was on the earth? They were pretty much unshakeable in their faith, was that right? Huh?"

Crickets. So he answers himself: "No. How many times did Jesus call 'em faithless?"

He goes on for a while about Jesus calling out the disciples for their unbelief and inability to do things like cast out demons. Then he goes on to say they all believed in the resurrection for their entire lives, never recanted, and all died a martyr's death. He goes into some gruesome detail about their deaths, and claims that they would have been spared if they'd recanted.

None of that has ever been proven to be true - it is just church tradition. There is no historical record of what happened to any of the disciples.

There's not even anything about their fates in the bible, other than a mention, in Acts, that Herod had James the brother of John killed (it doesn't say why). Most of them disappear after the gospels, the remaining few after Acts.

Baker goes on with the usual "nobody would die for a lie" argument. He brings up Charles Colson. Yeah, the Watergate born-again guy. Baker paraphrases this quote:

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I know the resurrection is a fact, and Watergate proved it to me. How? Because 12 men testified they had seen Jesus raised from the dead, then they proclaimed that truth for 40 years, never once denying it. Every one was beaten, tortured, stoned and put in prison. They would not have endured that if it weren't true. Watergate embroiled 12 of the most powerful men in the world-and they couldn't keep a lie for three weeks. You're telling me 12 apostles could keep a lie for 40 years? Absolutely impossible.

He blabs on for a while about what a powerful proof this is, then lists it with his first two reasons. I guess we're on our way to #4.

Oh, no - wait. He goes on for a while longer about how the beliefs got turned into creeds, so they must be true, and how it's "Amazing that people in The World will believe old secular texts that there's not a lot of proof for, yet they wanna say the bible is not true, even though there's more proofs. For. That. What is that? What is that?"

That depends on who you mean, Dave. Historians take just about everything with a grain of salt, and are generally held to a high standard by one another, similar to the way scientists are. Unlike religious apologists, I've never heard a historian just trust that something is true because it's in a book.

He gets into another routine I've heard many times - how many "manuscripts" there are of the bible, and how there are fewer of the works of Homer, Plato and Tacitus (which he pronounces "Tactis"). He says that people wouldn't have made so many copies if they didn't know it was true.

Sorry, Dave -  the fact that a story was written down many times doesn't make it true. Do you think there's only one copy each of any book of fiction, Dave?

Back to the courtroom analogy again, then he lists his three proofs again. He prefaces each with "How d'ya know that's true?" But he goes on to say "How d'ya know? Early Christians wrote down  what they believe th'd'thb'r'l'n'resurrection* they wrote that down. How d'ya know that?  Because the gospels, the bible, it was all wrt-ten in scripture an' there are thousands of manuscripts showing that, and proving that, and they don't have near that of any other old manuscript that's out there."

So now are we on to #4? Or were the creeds and number of manuscripts numbers 4 and 5? Dave, ya gotta say the numbers or people will get lost.

These need to get better, Dave - so far, you've got nothing, and I've heard these arguments many times before.

* That's "the death, the burial and the resurrection." Baker was really eliding his words throughout this sermon.

Edited April 14 by thoughtful
riffle

[thoughtful]

Next proof of the resurrection (is it #4? 5? 6?) - the rapid growth of the early church.

He cites the story of 3000 people getting saved on Pentecost as proof that the resurrection is true, because "they knew it was true, they were there." He says that later, another 5000 were saved (that's in Acts 4).

He goes on, "When the news announces something today, do we believe it? A good idea is not to believe it. Right? I mean it's always a question, right - what really happened?  What really happened w'that bridge and that barge?"

He mumbles, then acknowledges that "that one prob'ly happened the way it supposedly happened, but even if something that happened the way they said it happened, we don't even believe it because we've been lied to so many times. Amen?"

He mentions that even what we see can be distorted, and blabs about a picture of Prince William that looked like he was flipping reporters off, but from another POV, it was clear that he wasn't.

Um, Dave - I think you just screwed up your long passionate screed about eyewitnesses.

He blasts on about how thousands of people wouldn't have believed if it wasn't true.

Of course, we don't know for sure that thousands of people believed, let alone that their believing made the story true. IIRC, there's not much evidence that Christianity grew fast until Constantine accepted it and Theodosius made it the official religion of the Roman empire, in the 4th century.

He says "One of the big reasons why  - that - you have to believe the resurrection?" He chuckles. "There are no plausible skeptics to make any reason to say how it's not true."

Is this another on the list? Just a comment on the previous one?

He comes up with some strawman arguments from his imaginary skeptics, and scoffs at how weak they are - again, things I've heard many times, and that actual skeptics don't really use. He returns to his courtroom analogy again.

I think he may be done with his list, because  he says that, if the resurrection is true, there are a few things that had better happen (oh, goody - another list).

"Number one - you'd better get saved. You'd better get saved. You gonna put this off? You gonna take a chance that a car's not gonna plow into you?" He describes a burnt spot on a nearby road, that recently had a cross and some flowers added. "Someone died in that wreck. How d'ya know that's not you this week?"

He goes on to tell them that they can come up at the end of the service, and there will be a man to explain to the men how they can get saved, and a lady, for the ladies. He tells them that, if they get saved, everyone will be happy, and has the congregation yell "Amen!"

He says, "Nothin' t'feel weird about."

"Number 2 - if it is true, then you better serve God. You better serve God."

He rants about how it changed the disciples and the "many infallible proofs, you can't deny it."

"Number 3 - we better obey his commandments."

"Number 4 - if this is true, then we better tell other people about him."

He scares them about friends and relatives that would be in hell if they died right now.

"Number five an' we're done. If this is true," He gives his obnoxious chuckle, "Then we better prepare for Jesus comin' back."

He compares the pending coming of Jesus to parents coming back from a trip earlier than expected, and how you'd feel if the house was a mess and no chores done, as opposed to having kept things in good shape.

He gets in a few more shouting iterations of how the proofs are infallible "according to secular proof, according to law,  if you took this evidence in a courta law,  with a jury of people just going on the evidence of the resurrection, they would have to say, by the evidence, yes! Jesus did resurrect from the dead! That means - " Suddenly quiet: "He is who he said he is, he's God in the flesh. That means, listen carefully, that this whole book is true."

So it's true because the bible says it's true, and it's being true is what makes the bible true. Ah, the circular reasoning of a presuppositional apologist. There's nothing quite like it.

Sorry, Dave - to me, your list of supposedly infallible proofs amount to "a book says a thing" - not persuasive to anyone who doesn't already believe. You would have done better to preach a sermon of joy for believers, rather than a defensive whinefest about how everybody had better believe it, because somebody else believed it and to avoid hell.

His pre-altar call prayer is a quick rehash of the sermon, then he fear-mongers some more while the piano plays.

Baptisms follow, in the cold water. The first is an adult man. The second is a little boy - Baker says they got permission from his mother to baptize him, which makes me think he might be a "bus kid" whose parents don't come to church. Last is a girl (or short woman) whose dunking is delayed a bit while they say they are finding a hairnet (I think they mean a shower cap), and who is clearly quite reluctant due to the cold. Baker tells her "You got this" as he guides (pulls?) her in by the hand. It seems to me that he's having trouble hiding his impatience, but that may be due my bias against him.

So, that was Resurrection Sunday morning at Family Baptist. Defensiveness, self-righteousness, and fear, just like any other Sunday there.

[Ozlsn]

On 4/13/2024 at 12:14 PM, Joyster said:

Based on the practice test, I can drive the church bus with an 88%! I should NOT drive a bus. I am a good multiple choice taker and used common sense, so I think Gary might need to study.

72%, although not being able to think in feet and not being entirely sure of some terminology possibly helped there. They wished me better luck next time though!

I would need a lot of practice somewhere with space to get a spatial feel for driving a bus though...

On 4/13/2024 at 11:01 AM, Joyster said:

Attending school seemed to be worrisome to him.

Yeah I don't think Gary has good memories of school. Which tracks with a potential learning disability.

On 4/13/2024 at 11:01 AM, Joyster said:

I was hoping he was getting a long haul truck driver job. I thought truck driving would quench his thirst for being on the road and  be productive.

Even a local truck driving job so he can still care for, ok, support Becky would be good.

[Joyster]

Gary posted this today:

I am sure, Gary and I would have very different ideas about what needs to be fixed. I do not understand Donnie‘s comment. Is bedumb a reference to public assistance?

Spoiler

I listened to Pastor Baker’s “Never Argue with Your Spouse” video. I find him really annoying, but his communication tips were actually very good except for one part. He said couples should agree on an opening line for talking about a problem. The husband’s opening line should always be something expressing love because that’s what women want. The wife’s should be something showing respect because that’s what men want. With one couple he counseled, the husband wanted the wife to say, “Sir, we need to talk…” The wife didn’t like that, and Baker told her to be thankful that the husband didn’t want her to call him lord like Sarah called Abraham in the Bible. 

Baker urges couples to seek coaches for problems they’ve tabled and can’t agree on. He and Laura have had a marriage coach since their honeymoon even though they didn’t really need it until a few years ago. He then makes a really bad joke about how she was beating him again. I don’t know why he thinks spousal abuse is humorous. He says his marriage communication tips worked for couples he really had little hope for. One wife was so angry after a counseling session that she tried to run Pastor Dave over with her car. 15 years later, that couple is still together!

And on another note not really related to Gary, if a fundie (Gary twice removed friend) mentions his only sin in a marriage was seeing two adulterers on a computer screen, does that mean he looked at pornography? It seemed like such a strange euphemism.

[SisterCupcake]

28 minutes ago, Joyster said:

Gary posted this today:

I am sure, Gary and I would have very different ideas about what needs to be fixed. I do not understand Donnie‘s comment. Is bedumb a reference to public assistance?

  Hide contents

I listened to Pastor Baker’s “Never Argue with Your Spouse” video. I find him really annoying, but his communication tips were actually very good except for one part. He said couples should agree on an opening line for talking about a problem. The husband’s opening line should always be something expressing love because that’s what women want. The wife’s should be something showing respect because that’s what men want. With one couple he counseled, the husband wanted the wife to say, “Sir, we need to talk…” The wife didn’t like that, and Baker told her to be thankful that the husband didn’t want her to call him lord like Sarah called Abraham in the Bible. 

Baker urges couples to seek coaches for problems they’ve tabled and can’t agree on. He and Laura have had a marriage coach since their honeymoon even though they didn’t really need it until a few years ago. He then makes a really bad joke about how she was beating him again. I don’t know why he thinks spousal abuse is humorous. He says his marriage communication tips worked for couples he really had little hope for. One wife was so angry after a counseling session that she tried to run Pastor Dave over with her car. 15 years later, that couple is still together!

And on another note not really related to Gary, if a fundie (Gary twice removed friend) mentions his only sin in a marriage was seeing two adulterers on a computer screen, does that mean he looked at pornography? It seemed like such a strange euphemism.

Bedum is a reference to Joe Biden. Biden, bedum, get it??? Hehe 🙄🙄Fundies think they’re so clever! 

[thoughtful]

31 minutes ago, Joyster said:

I am sure, Gary and I would have very different ideas about what needs to be fixed. I do not understand Donnie‘s comment. Is bedumb a reference to public assistance?

I think "bedumb" is supposed to be a witty nickname for Biden.

The post broke another irony meter for me. Gary and his buddies go on and on about how they are broken and worthless, and have "nothin' to brag on but Jesus," and they sure do get a lot of attention for it.

31 minutes ago, Joyster said:

He then makes a really bad joke about how she was beating him again. I don’t know why he thinks spousal abuse is humorous. He says his marriage communication tips worked for couples he really had little hope for. One wife was so angry after a counseling session that she tried to run Pastor Dave over with her car. 15 years later, that couple is still together!

Isn't he a slick and slimy one?

ETA - I see @SisterCupcake and I were typing at the same time.

Edited April 18 by thoughtful

[AmazonGrace]

I feel like if you're asking these people for advice, that's it. There's nothing better for you, ever.

Quote

He says his marriage communication tips worked for couples he really had little hope for. One wife was so angry after a counseling session that she tried to run Pastor Dave over with her car. 15 years later, that couple is still together!

uhh and that is the good result?

If he wasn't making this up divorcing her would likely have been the better alternative for the man and his children, if any. She should have been in jail for a good portion of it anyway.

[thoughtful]

Oh, joy - Gary got some positive feedback for wearing his opinions on his head.

[Xan]

"If you believe something stand for it.  It's call our rights."  

Donald Trump isn't the president.  Gary can believe it all he wants but when he goes around saying it, he's telling a lie.  Now maybe he had the right to lie in public but I don't think that's precisely part of the Bill of Rights.  And it IS rude to go around lying just because you can't deal with reality.  He might not be trying to be rude but he's managing to be rude all the same.

[Joyster]

Gary is preaching at Family Baptist tomorrow. Gary is asking for prayers that they will be a help to folks.. The only way those prayers are coming true is if he’s struck speechless. 

[thoughtful]

7 hours ago, Xan said:

He might not be trying to be rude but he's managing to be rude all the same.

I think Gary relishes being rude and offending people.  "Rubbin' yer cat the wrong way" seems to be a favorite sport of IFBers and Trumpers alike.

Resurrection Sunday evening, 3/31, at Family Baptist, started with Baker bragging about the morning service, telling the congregation that they heard testimonies, "a lot of people got saved, and three people got baptized."

Then he goes into a description of how hard it is to baptize people with "those little rooms back there," talking through the process of putting on his waders, and getting people in and changed, then baptized, then out so the next person can go.

It's another one of those things that makes me wish there really was the kind of magical justice he believes in, because I think he'd find himself suddenly transported to digging ditches or cleaning porta-potties, instead of standing there in a nice suit, talking bullshit for a living.

He tells them that one of his brother's kids had a baby that afternoon, and asks his mother to remind him how many great-grandchildren she now has (20).

After some singing, he says they're going to take "the Lord's Supper" (aka communion), tells them to think about "what Jesus did on the cross," and says a prayer that emphasizes the suffering and sacrifice. Again, this strikes me as a combination of the general IFB love of emphasizing the gory stuff and slathering on the guilt, and not having any rituals or services for Holy Week. By Easter, I think most Catholics and mainstream Protestants are past dwelling on the crucifixion and are celebrating the resurrection. But not at Family Baptist!

On to explaining what communion is. He says that Paul's letters were to tell the churches how to do things right. "This Lord's Supper, as we call it, or communion, as it's called,  um, were things at the church of Corinth that they were not doing right, so Paul wrote them, in 1 Corinthians chapter 11 and said 'Here's what you're supposed t'do and not t'do.' They were making it like a feast, like a meal, uh, like food, and then some people had money, food, and some people didn't, and it was off, and so that's - 'you're not understanding what this is.'"

He reads from 1 Corinthians, adding his own little comments between the verses. I broke most of it up, to keep from having to type out every word he said.

So here's the passage:

Quote

 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

 

He emphasizes how Jesus was about to go through torture and knew it when he offered his blood and body symbolically.

He snipes at other religions who actually believe it becomes the flesh and blood of Jesus - he wants them to just think about Jesus' broken body when they take the bread, and his spilled blood when they drink the juice.

He says that some religions have people do this every day, claiming "they think that by doin' this every day, they're gonna get t'go to heaven. It's not how it works."

After he reads the verses about the unsaved not partaking, he says, "If there's someone here you've not accepted Christ as your savior yet, OK? You're a pre-believer. We believe you're gonna accept Christ as your savior, but if you haven't accepted Christ as your savior yet, there's nothing wrong just to let it go by. No one's gonna say anything or think anything."

"If you're taking this unworthily, meaning 'I'm picturing Jesus, that I accepted his body and blood t'save me, but I really haven't,' that's gonna be taking this unworthily, and God said um 'he that ink - eateth and drinketh unworthily eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.' That's how big a deal this is."

After reading the verse about not judging, he says, "We're not t'judge anybody, an' say 'I don't think you're saved, an' I don't think you livin' right,' no - we don't do that. You judge yourself, um and  before we do any of this, we have a minute or so  where we just - no piano playin', nothing goin' on, just each person searching their heart, with God; 'Is there anything I need to confess? Is there anything I need to forsake? Is there anything in my life - there's a ____ (?) prayer to pray, that David prayed; Lord search me try me see if there be any wicked way in me. You pray that prayer, God'll bring something to mind. Don't argue with him or try to debate him, just say, 'Lord I confess that to you' and uh, do our best to forsake that."

He babbles some more about confessing and prayer. So, now that he has, with Paul's help, laid on lots of guilt, made those who will not take communion feel even more self-conscious than they already would have, cast doubt on those taking it, and made those who suspect others of not taking it honestly feel guilty for wondering who really means it . . . it's time for the Lord's Supper!

Enjoy your bread and grape juice, everybody!

During the time of silent contemplation, he assumes what he seems to think is the most appropriate posture. Kneeling? Standing? Sitting? Nope:

Spoiler

He squats.

Then he stands to pray, thanking Jesus for his body that was "brrrroken, from the top of your head from being hit with a scepter to the bottom of your feet, having to walk along the rocks carrying a cross to Golgotha."

They hand out the bread (I guess - all we see is Baker and one of his sons puttering around at the front), and he gets in some more torture and guilt talk.

"You have the bread in front of you and you look at it - it's unleavened bread. Leaven in the bible - the yeast in the bible - is a picture of sin. It takes a little bit of leaven, a little bit of yeast, to make the bread rise; that's used as an example to say it takes a little bit of sin t'really mess your life up. So it's unleavened bread an' that's why it's flat an' it looks like that and tastes like that. Then it's also burned um, and it's got holes in it, it's pierced because Jesus was pierced, and it's burned because that flesh or that body - excuse me, the soul - three days and three nights in the heart of the earth, um the torment and what he went through there."

And then he prays again, thanking Jesus for his brrroken body - again.

He eats his crunchy bread, then thanks Jesus, in gory detail, for shedding his blood. They hand out the grape juice, and he says, "Just like the bread is unleavened bread, no yeast in it, the same thing with the juice, it's just juice, there's no leaven in it to make the alcoholic wine that people make, and this is the picture of Jesus' blood that was pure, perfect, and precious."

And he prays again, and references the "body broken and the blood shed" yet again, then drinks his juice.

He prays again, and yes, references the body and the blood yet again.

What a depressing, long, drawn-out communion that was!

Edited April 21 by thoughtful
removing redundancy

[thoughtful]

Continuing the 3/31 evening service, there is some singing, then Baker makes announcements and gives out some Chik-fil-a gift certificates. One goes to a congregant who he says comes early every Sunday and cleans and repairs things. He says that this man (whose name is Ray - I'm telling you for a reason) was lying in a pew with songbooks under his head before the service that morning, and Baker took a picture of him and posted it to his family with a caption about there being a dead man in the church. A whole "everybody knows I'm joking" routine follows, including mocking his one daughter who, he says, never realizes he's joking.

Blessings include the usual - visitors among the bus kids got saved. The man talking about it says "we gave out over 3000 pieces of candy in a candy scramble today beside the church."

I guess a candy scramble is what churches call putting candy out and having kids find it, when they don't want to mention the Easter bunny.

After a few people say they led someone to the Lord, Baker calls on a man to ask what his blessing is. He calmly drawls:

Spoiler

"Brother Ray has risen."

That may be the first genuinely funny thing I've ever heard in this church. It gets a big laugh, and Baker goes along with it. But then he tries to expound on it, explaining why it's funny, going back to the original story. Just let it go, Dave - someone else got in a better punch line than you ever have.

A man praises Baker for being his pastor for so long. As it turns out, he's the other man who got a gift card, and, this time, Baker nails the delivery, thanking him and saying "And I only had to give him a Chik-fil-a card t'get that compliment."

One of Baker's kids led five kids to the Lord in junior church, another led two. Someone else led one. Two of his kids led someone to the Lord while soul-winning the day before.

They sing two verses of There Is a Fountain Filled With Blood, then on to the sermon.

 

 

Edited April 21 by thoughtful

[thoughtful]

Baker prefaces his 3/31 sermon by saying there are some ideas in the bible that are harder to relate to than others. For him, one difficult one is the image of being the bride of Christ.

He says, "Honestly, I have a hard time being a bride. I just - that's just not the thing I pictured. That's not the thing I grew up with; 'Oooh, one day I'm gonna be a bride.' Amen?"

After some sexist crap about how women get it because they grow up dreaming of being brides, but he wants guys to get the "great truths in there" as well, he reads from Ephesians:

Quote

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

He tries to explain why there is no such thing as "the church" in modern times, because the church is "the called-out assembly" and there is no time or place when all believers can be assembled together. He takes a passing shot at Catholics, saying they claim that "every quote believer makes up the universal church and they're in charge of it, OK? Um, and that's not it."

He says that, one day, all of the saints (saved people) will be assembled together in heaven, and then they will be "the church," and have the marriage supper of the lamb.

He assures them there will be food in heaven.

"What is a bride supposed to be?" He reads from Revelation:

Quote

And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

Quote

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Well, that didn't add anything. He says "We are to prepare ourselves to be a bride fit for a king."

He blabs meaninglessly about royal weddings for a while, how much Kate MIddleton's dress and tiara cost, then wedding traditions in general, how the bride's parents usually pay, etc.

He says they were too poor to pay when their daughter(s?) got married. And posits the idea that a very wealthy man marrying a poor woman might pay for the wedding.

Eventually he gets to the idea that "our multi-trillion-zillionaire God the father" will pay for the wedding in heaven, but we need to bring some  things to the wedding - we should be rich in faith, grace to people, love, relationships, wisdom, thinking about eternity.

We are to be adorned as a bride. He  reads from Revelation again:

Quote

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Then he zigs off into a description of heaven and all of the precious metals and stones involved, then talks about how he loves the moment at weddings when the groom sees the bride coming down the aisle. "'Wow - my bride. Adorned. Beautiful. Pure. White.' What a beautiful thing. Listen carefully. That's our savior, when we come."

He goes on about being faithful, pure, holy, sanctified and righteous for God. And we're supposed to be expectant, which leads to a long routine about how people anticipate their wedding, and how weird it would be for a bride to be uncaring about it. Our groom has been waiting 2000 years. 

"Is there anything more exciting for a woman than her wedding day? Ladies?"

He doesn't seem to be getting any response.

He says we have to have love for God/Jesus, and, again, has them imagine how a groom would feel if his bride was uncaring.

A bride is supposed to be beautiful, and he asks what makes us beautiful to God. He rambles about various body parts and waits for someone to come up with it. Finally someone does, and he quotes the verse from Romans:

Quote

How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace,

So, going out soul-winning is what God finds beautiful. He burbles about how "neat" it is when he goes out with his kids and they all see people get saved, and says it must be even more exciting for God.

He asks them to evaluate themselves as a bride the way The World judges looks - on a scale of 1 to 10, and to work on themselves if they are not the Bride God expects.

He lays on some more guilt as he prays, and during and after the altar call. You'd better be ready to be The Bride.

Spoiler

 

Edited April 21 by thoughtful
fixing formatting