Duggars by the Dozen 46: Living with the Fallout

[Giraffe]

3 hours ago, gustava said:

Does Anna schlep ALL her children back and forth between Arkansas and Texas? 

That's my guess. But it's also like Jermajesty said - it's not like they have to be back in Arkansas for any specific thing so they probably stay as long as David lets them. I am curious about Anna's finances though. When she's in Tx does David financially support them or is JB still paying for things?
 

I'd love to know how micromanaging JB is towards Anna when it comes to finances. Does he give her a set amount per month and leave her to it? Does she have to ask for more when she runs out or just wait until a particular date he decides? Does he keep her account filled but he demands receipts for every penny she spends? 

[JermajestyDuggar]

The funeral of Anna’s grandpa was in Alabama and she made it to that with all her kids. I’m sure she will also make it to holiday celebrations in Florida too. She will drag the kids everywhere if she wants to. I bet those kids spend a lot of time on the road. 

[Giraffe]

2 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The funeral of Anna’s grandpa was in Alabama and she made it to that with all her kids. I’m sure she will also make it to holiday celebrations in Florida too. She will drag the kids everywhere if she wants to. I bet those kids spend a lot of time on the road. 

I agree. Even though it's never seemed like Anna has Mac be a JillJessaJanaJinger sistermom to her siblings Mac has probably been Anna's parentified & emotional support child since early days. Mac will either haul ass at 18 never to be heard from again or, my guess, she'll remain with Anna and continue being Anna's best friend, confidant, and emotional protector well into her adulthood especially after her sperm donor gets out. 

[Bobology]

4 hours ago, Giraffe said:

When she's in Tx does David financially support them or is JB still paying for things?

It makes me wonder how many "love offerings" David has asked the congregation for on Anna's and the M's behalf.

[Giraffe]

12 minutes ago, Bobology said:

It makes me wonder how many "love offerings" David has asked the congregation for on Anna's and the M's behalf.

Absolutely. With the pedo in prison I'm more curious about Anna's finances than I am the Rodriguez's!

[Cam]

We saw Anna’s life as a trainwreck, but she didn’t. Other than living in DC two years, she was never isolated from support. Going from obscurity to newlywed in 2008, she then reaped 7 years of perks from being on 19KAC. When she and Josh moved back to Arkansas from DC in 2015, her kids no doubt easily blended back in with their similar aged aunts, happy to reunite with their built in playmates. Anna had adults in her corner; her own sisters in law went on national tv to defend her husband, and her parents-in-law were supportive of her, too. Then, voila, along comes Counting On and once again, Ann rides the reality tv gravy train six more years till Josh’s arrest. (I cannot unsee the cringy picture of all those pregnant Duggar women in flowy dresses with flower wreaths in their hair gathered in a field of tall grass). Anna may lean on Mack more now that Josh is doing prison time, but she’s had others to turn to over the years. Anna’s life isn’t a 2.0 version of Michelle’s life.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Cam

[Giraffe]

@Cam I am much too cynical to believe Anna was enjoying her life pre-arrest. I am no doubt putting my own spin on things but to me it she always seemed like she was always trying (but not quite managing) to fit in. For her sake & Mac's I hope your version of Anna's life is more her reality. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Giraffe

[HeartsAFundie]

On 11/3/2023 at 8:18 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Unfortunately I think young quiverful moms rely on their oldest child to not only be their coparent, but also their BFF. I think a lot of moms used their oldest daughter for emotional support. I bet Anna does that to Mack sometimes. I’m just hoping she uses Pris for that nowadays since they seem to spend a lot of time with them.

Mothers and sons too.  Case in point:  Erin Bates Paine and Carson Paine.  And she doesn't hide it either.  

[Father Son Holy Goat]

I imagine Anna probably felt happier than any of us would have because she was raised not to expect better from the men in her cult. 

[Angelface]

I wonder if, over the next year or so, Anna may start to be able to process things. For the very first time in her married life, her youngest child has reached the age of two years without Anna being pregnant with the next child. Life may just be starting to get a little less frantic and hectic and she may, perhaps, be able to start to process things and work through her emotions. I hope that she can. 

[Cam]

My overview of Anna’s marriage: moved out of parents’ trailer into living with Josh; went from barely being noticed to being on TV. Probably got some fan mail. Married the firstborn son & delivered the first Duggar grandkid which gave her some stature. Anna loved babies and birthed six before Josh’s arrest; she basked in the many high moments these events provided. Never had to worry about housing, clothing or food for herself or kids. Had built in babysitters. As part of the Duggar clan, she experienced worldwide travel plus got to be on other tv shows besides just 19KAC, like the Today show and even friggin Say Yes to the Dress. Doing 19KAC talking heads segments made her feel like people cared what she thought plus she got fussed over for hair, makeup and lighting. Had some cachet in church and around town because of the tv show. Continual bridal and baby showers to attend. More hair and makeup plus dresses for the numerous times she was a bridesmaid. There were enough distractions having married into a family with 19 kids plus raising her own growing family that it was very easy for Anna to be too busy to dwell on or even notice that which was not right between her and Josh. They could spend time in big crowds and never really have to be with each other. Besides, Anna was conditioned to disregard her feelings and if she was discontent about anything, her religion told her she was the problem. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Cam

[Father Son Holy Goat]

5 hours ago, Cam said:

My overview of Anna’s marriage: moved out of parents’ trailer into living with Josh; went from barely being noticed to being on TV. Probably got some fan mail. Married the firstborn son & delivered the first Duggar grandkid which gave her some stature. Anna loved babies and birthed six before Josh’s arrest; she basked in the many high moments these events provided. Never had to worry about housing, clothing or food for herself or kids. Had built in babysitters. As part of the Duggar clan, she experienced worldwide travel plus got to be on other tv shows besides just 19KAC, like the Today show and even friggin Say Yes to the Dress. Doing 19KAC talking heads segments made her feel like people cared what she thought plus she got fussed over for hair, makeup and lighting. Had some cachet in church and around town because of the tv show. Continual bridal and baby showers to attend. More hair and makeup plus dresses for the numerous times she was a bridesmaid. There were enough distractions having married into a family with 19 kids plus raising her own growing family that it was very easy for Anna to be too busy to dwell on or even notice that which was not right between her and Josh. They could spend time in big crowds and never really have to be with each other. Besides, Anna was conditioned to disregard her feelings and if she was discontent about anything, her religion told her she was the problem. 

I agree with all of this. If I didn’t know what a healthy relationship was or grow up in a cult being conditioned to accept whatever others decide to give me I might also think “at least I have a husband” and be happy with the novelty of having basic needs met.

[Giraffe]

I'm much too cynical to believe Anna's happy with her life. IMO she has enough contact with those outside her bubble that she must live with a tremendous amount of repression and cognitive dissonance. No matter how much affirmation she's getting from Josh's supporters IMO there have to be cracks in her "at least I have a husband" thinking. 

[Cam]

The tide turned for Anna once Josh was arrested for the csam. She went from the public’s opinion of her from naive newlywed/wronged wife to “how can she stay married to a pedophile?” So she gets less support and understanding. But yes, I think Anna has had many high points in her life to enjoy. Even now, there are positives like getting to know her kids better without continual pregnancies which also gives her body a break. She still has all her basic needs met. I don’t really see her as miserable. 

[Kiki03910]

Do you guys think Anna 100% believes Josh is innocent? I mean, I don't know how she could, but I've been shocked before.

[JermajestyDuggar]

30 minutes ago, Kiki03910 said:

Do you guys think Anna 100% believes Josh is innocent? I mean, I don't know how she could, but I've been shocked before.

I think she has told herself he’s innocent. It’s not that uncommon for people to do this. She only knows one side of Josh. But what people don’t usually understand is that people can be really good at compartmentalizing. I think josh learned from a very young age how to compartmentalize. And by that I mean the secret life and the public life of josh. She’s only seen the public life of josh. Sure he stumbled and cheated. But he’s just a man who is horny like god made him. She thinks cheating is normal and boys molesting sisters is just curiosity. But there’s no way to justify his CSA viewing. That’s black and white. So she has convinced herself that he didn’t do it. He’s also likely convinced her quite willingly. He probably tells her everything she wants to hear. He probably told her it was someone else with access to the computer and they are blaming him because he’s a “famous” Christian. It’s hard for people to wrap their heads around a person they see as caring and loving who can also download CSA. It’s often like this for murderers too. People just can’t believe the “good person” they know and love can be a murderer. But like I said, some humans are quite good at compartmentalizing their different parts. And can act the part of living dutiful father while also being a killer.

[Kiki03910]

I'm sure you're right, @JermajestyDuggar. It's fucking complicated, and I have no way to understand the particular pressures of this cult. Horrible in every way, really.

[LillyP]

On 11/7/2023 at 5:49 PM, Kiki03910 said:

Do you guys think Anna 100% believes Josh is innocent? I mean, I don't know how she could, but I've been shocked before.

Yes. My honest opinion is that I think she probably knows he's guilty. I think she held onto the "stand by your man" because it's ingrained in her to do so. I will be curious to see what happens by the end of his prison time. I'd like to think the many years without him will give her clarity but I think she sees herself in a no-way-out situation...because both ends of her support system is telling her to stay. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

I think she knows deep down that he’s guilty but won’t allow herself to access the information because she feels she has too much to lose.

[Kiki03910]

I agree @LillyP and @Father Son Holy Goat and it breaks my heart, really. I didn't enjoy recognizing some family disfunction, but I had an education, and great partner, and great, supportive friends. And wasn't brainwashed -- maybe the crucial factor.

[MariaariaM]

Thankfully she has a bit of time until the first M gets married off and/or The Gross One returns. Who knows what can happen in a couple of years? JB may grate on her nerves enough (or she on his) to cause change. The younger Js growing up and making more outside friends may bring new influence to the M kids as well. She might get bored enough without an infant to care for (and varioys minors doing all the chores) that a couple of little-used synapses start firing - she could even stray into (Christian or other) romance and start yearning for someone who actually touches something other than her body.

[Cam]

I just finished reading “#ChurchToo: How Purity Culture Upholds Abuse and How to Find Healing” by Emily Joy Allison. Full of insights, one thing the author discusses, which FJers have also talked about, is how some Christians don’t (won’t?) differentiate between “sin” and “crime”. Maybe Anna doesn’t believe Josh committed a crime and doesn’t deserve jail time. Her identity is wrapped up in “spousal love, forgiveness and second chances”, something that fundie women are conditioned to do and praised for. It was Anna’s platform/story line when Counting On replaced 19KAC after the molestation and Ashley Madison scandals. Take away the long suffering wife role, and who is Anna? She doesn’t know. She probably stood by Josh after the csam charges because it was a familiar role and one she’d previously received praise for. She did what she was supposed to and like the good little obedient fundie Christian girl (trained seal at the zoo?), she did as she was told/trained to do. She may have thought she’d get more support since she was standing by her man once again.

[sndral]

On 11/7/2023 at 2:49 PM, Kiki03910 said:

Do you guys think Anna 100% believes Josh is innocent? I mean, I don't know how she could, but I've been shocked before.

Yes, she 100% believes Josh is ‘innocent,’ like so many of these fundamentalist/evangelical types she does not have the moral courage to face the truth & make the changes that would stem from that knowledge, so she takes the easy way out, opts to believe the lie & keep on w/ her magical thinking via praying to Jesus to fix everything w/ no painful emotional work on her part. As long as Josh sticks to his story that some other dude did it, Anna will as well.

Anna’s father’s prison ministry primed her to be more tolerant of the whole everyone can be saved & forgiven no matter how depraved or chronic their actions are/were shtick - it’s almost like Josh had a premonition he’d end up where he is & chose his wife accordingly.

[Expectopatronus]

I would be shocked if Anna ever comes out and unequivocally states her beliefs regarding Josh’s guilt/innocence. To a large extent, her life remains the same no matter what she thinks. She will continue to be dependent upon JB for food, housing and clothes and will continue to play by his rules. The oldest two , maybe even three kids will be married by the time Josh gets out and Meredith and Mason will be close to courtship age. Josh really won’t play any role in the oldest four kids’ lives anymore and will never have had a role in the youngest kids’ lives. Anna is now for all intents and purposes a single mom with seven kids and no means of supporting herself. She may not have the luxury of speaking out about anything. IBLP is by its very nature abusive and traps women. 

[Melissa1977]

On 11/5/2023 at 3:15 AM, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I imagine Anna probably felt happier than any of us would have because she was raised not to expect better from the men in her cult. 

My grandma's generation were raised like that, but it doesn't work. They and their friends realised that some men around them were far better husbands than others. Many of those traditional women complained about husbands. Frustration and anger are very common feelings in human beings around the world. Some people like fundie wives (and many other social groups) may keep sweet in public, but they do realise if husbands are good or bad. 

I think Anna was happy at the early years. She looked shy and humble but I have the feeling she felt entitled and superior than her (then) single sisters in law. She enjoyed "private time" with Josh (yes, she may have faked that, but she looked thrilled and she wasn't a good actress, so I assume she liked him). I also think she loved the money. Finally, she was clearly in love with motherhood.

I think the period pre-Washington was happy for her. But I don't think happiness (or nice contentment) would have lasted long even without public scandals. He has a very rotten soul...