Benedict XVI Has Died

[Bastet]

  Pope John xxiii was old and was intended by the conservatives to be a transitional figure. A real miscalculation—he called a council and did what he could to modernize the church. He died too early. (When asked how many people worked at the Vatican, he said, “About half.”  The Curia must have loved him.)
   Ironically, progressives imposed the vernacular mass in a totally authoritarian way. For a while there were underground Latin masses and a renegade antisemitic French bishop. It was attractively romantic for the far right. They called themselves Sede Vacantists—meaning the chair of St. Peter was empty because no true  pope would approve of modernization. If the Latin mass had always been available, it wouldn’t have been a rallying point. Now it’s a potent symbol for conservatives.  

Edited January 3, 2023 by Bastet

[47of74]

37 minutes ago, Bastet said:

  Pope John xxiii was old and was intended by the conservatives to be a transitional figure. A real miscalculation—he called a council and did what he could to modernize the church. He died too early. (When asked how many people worked at the Vatican, he said, “About half.”  The Curia must have loved him.)
   Ironically, progressives imposed the vernacular mass in a totally authoritarian way. For a while there were underground Latin masses and a renegade French bishop. It was attractively romantic for the far right. If the Latin mass had always been available, it wouldn’t have been a rallying point. Now it’s a potent symbol for conservatives.  

John XXIII went in to the 1958 conclave aware that he was a potential candidate but he didn't think his fellow cardinals would want someone as old as he was (76).  He even had his return train ticket to take him back to Venice.

And yes, I'm somewhat familiar with the renegade French Archbishop Lefebvre.  Yeah, Lefebvre was a real piece of work.  He was a supporter of Vichy France, the National Front and its leader Le Pen, and was very Islamophobic.  And he thought Ratzinger was too liberal.  Church bent over backwards for this clown but finally had enough of Lefebvre when he consecrated four Bishops - including the holocaust denier Williamson - without permission from John Paul II.  (Bishops can consecrate other Bishops but need the approval of the Pope before they proceed).

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by 47of74

[Expectopatronus]

The one point that I will give Pope Benedict is that he did advocate for those living with intellectual disabilities and even offered a special catechetical session at WYD for young people with disabilities. I didn’t and don’t agree with his conservative stance but I will give credit for this. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

3 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

The one point that I will give Pope Benedict is that he did advocate for those living with intellectual disabilities and even offered a special catechetical session at WYD for young people with disabilities. I didn’t and don’t agree with his conservative stance but I will give credit for this. 

It was more than conservative views! He actively covered for pedophiles for decades! 

[libgirl2]

11 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Hopefully not. You get a young guy who's corrupt with lifetime appointment and his reign goes on forever.  

Maybe you get someone who is not corrupt. I knew plenty of good priests in my life. 

[Nothing if not critical]

3 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Maybe you get someone who is not corrupt. I knew plenty of good priests in my life. 

I don't doubt that there are good priests. But once someone has enough ambition to climb the career ladder all the way up, I'm guessing things have a tendency to become less clear-cut.

[tankgirl]

Every time I read about his death I think "Don't let the door hit you on the way out". If God is real, he has a whole lot of explaining and a warm stay ahead of him for what he did. 

[47of74]

The smart ass part of me thinks maybe they're trying to make sure he doesn't get up and come back when they put the guy into three coffins.

Spoiler

 

 

[Bethella]

5 hours ago, 47of74 said:

The smart ass part of me thinks maybe they're trying to make sure he doesn't get up and come back when they put the guy into three coffins.

Am I the only one who watched that video and wanted to know why they didn’t iron the drapery?

[47of74]

20 hours ago, Bethella said:

Am I the only one who watched that video and wanted to know why they didn’t iron the drapery?

I didn't.  Were you talking about the drapes on the walls?  Those were just temporary and there's no windows there anyways.  (I actually saw the tomb back when I did my first trip to Rome in 2009 and JPII still occupied the spot). 

A lot of times vestments kind of get beat up and not washed/ironed as often, especially for servers and the like. 

[Bethella]

2 hours ago, 47of74 said:

I didn't.  Were you talking about the drapes on the walls?  Those were just temporary and there's no windows there anyways.

There were white drapes on the walls on both sides of the alcove and white skirting on the cart used to bring in the coffin. They were temporary and are gone in the pictures showing that the grave is open to the public. Part of it is my obsessive side of things but it’s also the principle of it. When I worked banquets in college it was hammered into us that you always iron or steam the tablecloths and skirting to remove wrinkles. The times I subbed at church putting up the altar cloth and banners it was the same thing. For a major funeral that you know is going to be broadcast worldwide, why wouldn’t you take the few minutes to get rid of the wrinkles and make it look nice?

[ADoyle90815]

On 1/8/2023 at 6:12 AM, 47of74 said:

The smart ass part of me thinks maybe they're trying to make sure he doesn't get up and come back when they put the guy into three coffins.

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I also noticed they put a ribbon and bow on the first coffin like a gift, complete with wax seals to make sure the ends of the bow don't come off. I'm a bit of a smartass as well.