Jinjer 59: Cooking with Prepared Spice Mix

[JermajestyDuggar]

I truly don’t want Jinger to be agnostic/atheist like myself if that’s not right for her. I can’t force her to stop believing in god or Jesus anymore than she can Convince me to believe in them. It’s everything surrounding the belief that gets me. The anti-lgbtq type hate. The shame and guilt surrounding sex and masturbation. The patriarchy. I know plenty of Christians who reject that crap and yes, they are still Christians. 

[Lista]

I’m gonna just say it. A cult is a cult.  Jinger needs to grow more.  It took me 20 years to quit listening to my family & theeJeahovah witnesses stuff.  I was raised in it.  If you don’t follow their beliefs, you will be shunned.  Family will no longer talk to you. 
 

What makes a person better than the other? Going to Bible study? Church 3 times a week?  
 

just because you force a child memorize scriptures & you force an innocent kid to follow your god, doesn’t mean they need to as an adult.  
 

I learned I can be a good person $ raise good kids without following a cult. 
 

my teen years were bad.  We had to be in groups & only hang with godly kids. Wanna date? 5 others around.  The church or elders made you feel bad. 
 

it’s not just the duggars or Bates. This is real shit that happens. 
 

JW definitely seeks out the most vulnerable people. I saw it my whole life.  
 

My step mom recently sent me a link so I can save myself.  Just. No.  I’m fine and so is my family.  JW.org y’all.  Lol. 

[Lista]

The only difference from JW is Gothard.  I actually met him when I was 4.  He talked to my dad about home school & weird stuff like that. Saying girls should be in long dresses. No joke. Thank god my dad laughed at him.  My dad drank.  Gothard didn’t want anyone that drank.  But neither do jeahivah wittinesses.  Imagine going to school and it’s your birthday.  Teacher makes a big deal.  But I was told to hang my head.  Because christs birthday was way more important. 
 

my step mom drank that koolaid & try’s to spit it at others. 
 

my sister is knee deep init. So is my half sister. 
 

I hate being bossed around. I think that’s why I was able to get out. 

[xenobia]

3 hours ago, JMO said:

1) She hasn't talked to Josh in 2 yrs.  Did she just ignore him at weddings, etc?  I can't remember if there were any celebrations from which they were markedly absent and we chalked it up to the distance. 

We know for sure that she met Josh on February 26'th 2021. (Yes, I googled the date). I remember that they took a bunch of photos at Clarityns wedding with all the siblings. When Jed! got married in April 2021 (April 3'rd) I think that Josh was at the wedding. He was arrested later that month. But we don't know if Jinger talked to him at either wedding. 

[Coconut Flan]

I think she was being approximate not to the day.  It's about two years since the arrest with a little give in the estimate.  

[marmalade]

11 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

I think she was being approximate not to the day.  It's about two years since the arrest with a little give in the estimate.  

You also have to consider when she was writing, mostly last year, but could have started back in late 2021 (she said that's when she decided to do this). I don't think that was written with consideration of a publication date, since she probably only had a vague idea when that would be. 

It's very possible that she didn't speak to Smuggar at either wedding. It's a huge family, and they were never close.

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

She may have been forced through "peer pressure" to at least stand around him. In a big family I expect she could sort of avoid him for the most part.

I would think that an outside authority saying hey this guy did something very wrong-either through the "raid" or the arrest- must have made Jinger feel validated. Her church and family having told her for years it was forgiven/not a big deal/partially her fault? To have outsiders SEE and ACT against that evil must have really been shocking. 

I think Jessa is well satisfied with her life. She seems to plan out what she wants and works towards it. 

The family's overall loyalty to their parents continues to be strange to me but I guess if you can deflect all the responsibility for the bad parts to Gothard then all the good goes to your parents. 

Although I note that Joy seems to spend A LOT of time with her in-laws and speaks regularly about how kind and helpful her mother in law is.

 

[neuroticcat]

Hey FJ gets a shout out in Wartburg Watch! Full article here: https://thewartburgwatch.com/2023/02/01/jinger-duggar-vuolo-rejects-her-rule-laden-upbringing-and-is-finding-freedom-as-she-attends-john-macarthurs-grace-community-church-i-know-what-youre-thinking/

[AussieKrissy]

5 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

Hey FJ gets a shout out in Wartburg Watch! Full article here: https://thewartburgwatch.com/2023/02/01/jinger-duggar-vuolo-rejects-her-rule-laden-upbringing-and-is-finding-freedom-as-she-attends-john-macarthurs-grace-community-church-i-know-what-youre-thinking/

Who/what is that?

[Cam]

The media only wants viewership. They aren’t concerned with putting much content in their stories. They sanitize the facts so its palatable to the masses. Thus, the Jinger story is “infotainment”. It will have no depth, no revelations about the seamier side of Mccartherism. It’s not the narrative the media wants to take. They won’t get into the nitty gritty of religion. Too boring for viewers. They want “soft, pretty, young blonde walking on the beach drinking coffee, hair blowing in the wind” stories that attract the key demographic of 18 to 35 year olds who are most swayed by advertising. Stories about attractive young blonde women are always a hit. 
 

With a documentary exposing IBLP scandals supposedly being made, I think the Vuolos wanted to get Jinger’s story out ahead of it. I think it’s smart that Jinger wrote the book. She gets her narrative out there and now the media will quote what she says in the book. I think she really specifically wanted to let people know that she condemns and has nothing to do with Josh. I think that’s very important to her that others know.

Yes, more Duggar siblings might write books after their parents are gone, but a few of them would be smart to get their own narrative out there now instead of the media’s take on things.

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Cam

[libgirl2]

I have started reading the book and so far, I'm surprised to say that for the most part, I'm enjoying it. I know! I'm not saying I agree with everything, but she really has stressed that following Gothard was following a man, not God. She really picks him apart. She also discusses modesty, while mentioned in the Bible, hardly tells one how long a skirt should be. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by libgirl2

[Lurker]

I haven’t read the book yet, but I have a hold on the ebook edition at the library.

Jinger or her publisher must have a fabulous public relations team.  She is all over the place in interviews.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m just frustrated that she just rips apart Gothard and no one else. It’s so easy to pick on a very old man who was kicked out years ago. It would be different if they had taken him on a decade ago. He has nothing to do with ATI/IBLP now. Why not call out those running ATI/IBLP now? Oh ya. Because that would upset a lot of fundies she’s close with like her parents, siblings, and maybe a few friends. I feel like this book is mostly going to be a big nothing burger. Maybe a few interesting tidbits but not much else. 

[Lurker]

30 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m just frustrated that she just rips apart Gothard and no one else. It’s so easy to pick on a very old man who was kicked out years ago. It would be different if they had taken him on a decade ago. He has nothing to do with ATI/IBLP now. Why not call out those running ATI/IBLP now? Oh ya. Because that would upset a lot of fundies she’s close with like her parents, siblings, and maybe a few friends. I feel like this book is mostly going to be a big nothing burger. Maybe a few interesting tidbits but not much else. 

If this book is successful, I can see her writing another one in a few years that takes on more of the leadership of ATI/IBLP.

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

If this book is successful, I can see her writing another one in a few years that takes on more of the leadership of ATI/IBLP.

There is supposed to be an IBLP/ATI expose type documentary in the works. If that is successful, it will make it even easier for Jinger to shit on the current board of ATI. But for now, she’s just taking the easy shots against Gothard. 

[sableduck]

Having read the book, she’s discussing her own experiences.  This book is about her and Gothard was a large part of her religious experience.  She is writing about IBLP, but only because IBLP is her religious experience. It’s not meant to be an expose of the cult; it’s Jinger’s struggle within the cult and how she found her way out of it and what she believes now.

[JermajestyDuggar]

32 minutes ago, sableduck said:

Having read the book, she’s discussing her own experiences.  This book is about her and Gothard was a large part of her religious experience.  She is writing about IBLP, but only because IBLP is her religious experience. It’s not meant to be an expose of the cult; it’s Jinger’s struggle within the cult and how she found her way out of it and what she believes now.

Which is disappointing because she could possibly help others still in the cult sans Gothard. People who are currently in the cult like her siblings could pretend like it’s different now that he’s gone. But we all Know it’s not. It’s still the same. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by JermajestyDuggar

[JermajestyDuggar]

51 minutes ago, sableduck said:

Having read the book, she’s discussing her own experiences.  This book is about her and Gothard was a large part of her religious experience.  She is writing about IBLP, but only because IBLP is her religious experience. It’s not meant to be an expose of the cult; it’s Jinger’s struggle within the cult and how she found her way out of it and what she believes now.

I have to point out her PARENTS were an even larger part than Gothard. Bill Gothard didn’t raise her. 

[seraaa]

I bought Jinger's book because the religious studies student in me couldn't not, and it is a bit surreal to hear a Duggar baldly discuss what exactly IBLP and Gothard's teachings entail.

She talk about how she was taught that a woman's central pupose was to occupy the role wife and mother, but know she knows that a Christian's purpose and glory is found in God, which means that...women are also valid if they occupy other non-wife and non-mother roles, and that women who can't have children haven't failed in their purpose.

She talks matter of factly about having reservations about the expectation of having children until she physically could not (because birth control is a sin against God), and is like "my feelings did not factor in matter, this was just the way my life would definitely be"

To go from this to "birth control is a blessing from God because it allows us to be good stewards of our families, and ultimately, our lives" (paraphrased) is...certainly a journey!

She talks about Gothard's elevation of the Principle of Authority, and that combined with the Prosperity-gospel nature of the teachings, this meant she believed that if she disobeyed her parents in any way, Satan's wrath could be brought down upon her. Apparently this was an issue at the beginning of her and Jeremy's marriage, because a parent's authority also extended to their adult children, and she would feel like she'd have to obtain their approval for life decisions like buying their first home.

Also, the Gothard teaching of the Book of Job was that all the bad things happened to him because he feared that they would. Which, you can imagine the effect this had on anxiety-prone Jinger (and honestly it kind of feels like this anxiety was bred by the religious environment she was in). This teaching left Jinger afraid that her own fear would lead to her own suffering (hello prosperity gospel, transactional religion)

3 hours ago, Cam said:

The media only wants viewership. They aren’t concerned with putting much content in their stories. They sanitize the facts so its palatable to the masses. Thus, the Jinger story is “infotainment”. It will have no depth, no revelations about the seamier side of Mccartherism. It’s not the narrative the media wants to take. They won’t get into the nitty gritty of religion. Too boring for viewers. They want “soft, pretty, young blonde walking on the beach drinking coffee, hair blowing in the wind” stories that attract the key demographic of 18 to 35 year olds who are most swayed by advertising. Stories about attractive young blonde women are always a hit. 
 

With a documentary exposing IBLP scandals supposedly being made, I think the Vuolos wanted to get Jinger’s story out ahead of it. I think it’s smart that Jinger wrote the book. She gets her narrative out there and now the media will quote what she says in the book. I think she really specifically wanted to let people know that she condemns and has nothing to do with Josh. I think that’s very important to her that others know.

Yes, more Duggar siblings might write books after their parents are gone, but a few of them would be smart to get their own narrative out there now instead of the media’s take on things.

 

The ones who still adhere to IBLP teachings will never write an expose because they think that disobedience and disrespecting their parents is a path on the road to hell

This is the part of the book that's sticking in my mind atm

[Cam]

20 minutes ago, seraaa said:

She talk about how she was taught that a woman's central pupose was to occupy the role wife and mother, but know she knows that a Christian's purpose and glory is found in God, which means that...women are also valid if they occupy other non-wife and non-mother roles, and that women who can't have children haven't failed in their purpose.

She talks matter of factly about having reservations about the expectation of having children until she physically could not (because birth control is a sin against God), and is like "my feelings did not factor in matter, this was just the way my life would definitely be"

To go from this to "birth control is a blessing from God because it allows us to be good stewards of our families, and ultimately, our lives" (paraphrased) is...certainly a journey!

I agree. Yes, Jinger still holds onto some shitty religious values, but letting go of this one is big. She may influence quite a few other young women (hopefully including her younger sisters) who also have reservations about a what constitutes a woman’s worth and the concept of perpetual pregnancies. 

As for other Duggar siblings writing books, I’m not saying an “expose” is the way to go. But they can put their own perspective out there, separate themselves somewhat from their parents’ beliefs and set the record straight on how they view Josh and everything that went down with him. Looking at you, Jill.

Jinger is definitely walking the fence on some issues, but I don’t have a problem with that. She doesn’t have to have solid, concrete answers in every area of her life. We all evolve. She isn’t interested in stirring up controversy. Jinger is still emerging from growing up Duggar. The current book suits where she’s at now in her life. Generally, I don’t find her interesting, but she’s the first of the sibs to venture this far out, so good on her. 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Cam

[Idlewild]

If Jinger writes another book I think it will be more of an informercial for McCarthy - Jeremy will be looking for a job after he finishes his doctorate and I can see them taking a high profile in the church on the back of this.

[Coconut Flan]

44 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Which is disappointing because she could possibly help others still in the cult sans Gothard. People who are currently in the cult like her siblings could pretend like it’s different now that he’s gone. But we all Know it’s not. It’s still the same. 

She's walking an interesting line.  She blames Gothard, but also keeps saying man made external rules.  Those are still in existence.  She has siblings who have left IBLP and some who are still mired.  People in IBLP and similar groups are her hoped for audience.  She wants and hopes for them to see there is Christianity outside of what they've been told.  That actually what they've been given is not even true Christianity.  I have to believe she wrote this with some of her friends and siblings in mind based on some of her interviews.

She's trying to do this in a way that does not end her relationship with her parents and most of her siblings.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 minute ago, Coconut Flan said:

She's walking an interesting line.  She blames Gothard, but also keeps saying man made external rules.  Those are still in existence.  She has siblings who have left IBLP and some who are still mired.  People in IBLP and similar groups are her hoped for audience.  She wants and hopes for them to see there is Christianity outside of what they've been told.  That actually what they've been given is not even true Christianity.  I have to believe she wrote this with some of her friends and siblings in mind based on some of her interviews.

She's trying to do this in a way that does not end her relationship with her parents and most of her siblings.  

It’s sad. Her parents never protected her from her brother. Yet she’s protecting them in this book in order to keep a relationship with them. 

[Cam]

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It’s sad. Her parents never protected her from her brother. Yet she’s protecting them in this book in order to keep a relationship with them. 

Sometimes kids take the high road like that.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, Cam said:

Sometimes kids take the high road like that.

But is it the high road?