Jinjer 59: Cooking with Prepared Spice Mix

[Idlewild]

Derick always said he wanted TLC to help with the bills as they had made money from showing the birth episodes. He was always careful not to blame JB & M in those days. Of course, Jill and Derick openly grifted funds from their followers- for their ‘mission’ and then Derick’s bible school. These days they seem to stick to paid partnerships and Derick’s career.

He always threatened to write a book- I wonder if he will wait until he is more established in his legal career? 

[Cam]

At some point, tho, Derick realized JB made all the money off the show and the kids got zilch, didn’t he?

I remember the Dillards grifting early. Again, I think they saw this being done by adults around them and figured that’s how you were supposed to do things. Honestly, it didn’t take them all that long to rethink their approach, once the realities of adult life started taking hold. I don’t know much about Derick’s upbringing but it wasn’t as extreme as Jill’s, was it? (Having said all that, I don’t want to come across as defending all the Dillards stand for, but it’s some (slight) improvement over JB’s beliefs.)

Right now the Dillards seem to be laying low, not seeking the spotlight. I’m of the opinion that Derick wants to climb the judicial system lawyer ladder and doesn’t want constant, self-induced headlines to trip him up. Nothing wrong with that.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Cam

[Idlewild]

@Cam DD’s family are conservative Christians, but not IBLP. He has one sibling and attended school and college. His father died when he was young and for some reason he latched on to JB as a prayer partner and met Jill. 
He seemed happy enough to go along with the courtship rules (for TV anyway) and the general grift but no doubt witnessed the fallout of the revelations about Josh and the effect on Jill and that’s when things began to change.

 

[Coconut Flan]

Derick and his family were fairly standard SBC and have stayed with that.  Derick's mother made a few side comments about how the Duggars did things saying she used "the same book" bringing up Derick.  She meant she used the Bible and apparently hers didn't say courting with no unsupervised contact, etc.  Jill and Derick even had their texts read and initially Michelle or Jim Bob in on the phone calls.  

[neuroticcat]

I think, too, they were all so young when they started out with little out of the family experience. With narcissists it kind of doesn’t matter what provoked them, just that something does and reveals true colors. Maybe the money thing blew up with JB and that was enough for Derick to recognize all was not well. Maybe it was something else with the others. Having in-laws outside of their bubble was probably a huge thing. Seems to be happening a bit with the Bates family as well. They can see Christians don’t all look like their family did so that in itself can start deconstruction. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by neuroticcat

[GracieLou Free Duggar]

2 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Derick and his family were fairly standard SBC and have stayed with that.  Derick's mother made a few side comments about how the Duggars did things saying she used "the same book" bringing up Derick.  She meant she used the Bible and apparently hers didn't say courting with no unsupervised contact, etc.  Jill and Derick even had their texts read and initially Michelle or Jim Bob in on the phone calls.  

Derick's mom is a POS, imo. 
Like, it takes a special someone to raise a kid who will harass a teen as an adult on social media.
A couple of years ago, she protested a fundraiser for a homeless shelter because it was a drag show.
She bought the kids the Tuttle Twins books, which criticize entitlement and socialism...

Cathy is gross. Her book is apparently bananas, too. She mainlines the Kool-Aid.

[Cam]

@neuroticcat Good point about them having little out of the family experience until they married,

A number of events blur in my mind and I don’t recall the sequence: Jill’s high hospital bills for a difficult delivery, Dillards requesting financial help from TLC\JB, the reveal of the molestations, Josh’s cheating scandal, Derick on the attack with Jazz Jennings, being kicked off of Counting On and Josh’s csam arrest and trial. Heck, no wonder the Dillards wanted distance from Duggardom.

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Cam

[moreorlessnu]

Jinger made a comment in one of her interviews that "this is not a "Tell-All" book on her family". I wouldn't be surprised if she is planning a Tell-All book at some point in the future, when they (might) really need the money, but that time is not yet.

 

[gustava]

Mods…Not sure where this goes so move/remove as you see fit.

 

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/1/22/2148541/-Christianist-blogger-wags-finger-at-Jinger-Duggar-Vuolo-for-opening-up-about-her-abusive-childhood?pm_source=story_sidebar&pm_medium=web&pm_campaign=recommended

Reprimanded for telling the truth?

[shesinsane]

from the linked article (thank you @gustava!)

Quote

Christian blogger Lori Alexander had a big problem with Vuolo’s candor. On Friday, she took to her blog, “The Transformed Wife,” in a post that essentially called Jinger an ungrateful brat for not giving “praise and thankfulness” to Jim Bob and Michelle for how they raised her, but only “condemnation.”

Alexander then reamed Vuolo for publicly speaking out about the harm her upbringing did, saying that a child had no right to speak out against her parents in this way.

There's a commandment in the bible that says "Honor thy Father and Mother", it does not dictate "Honor thy Father and Mother in all circumstances, including abuse." All I know about LA is she's got many threads of her own on Free Jinger, now I feel very sorry for her quiver of children. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Lori just wants more attention. She doesn’t even follow her own advice. She just likes shaming people and making them as miserable as her. 

[Mama Mia]

17 hours ago, Cam said:

@neuroticcat Good point about them having little out of the family experience until they married,

A number of events blur in my mind and I don’t recall the sequence: Jill’s high hospital bills for a difficult delivery, Dillards requesting financial help from TLC\JB, the reveal of the molestations, Josh’s cheating scandal, Derick on the attack with Jazz Jennings, being kicked off of Counting On and Josh’s csam arrest and trial. Heck, no wonder the Dillards wanted distance from Duggardom.

 

I would imagine the revelation of the molestations and subsequent fall-out had a huge impact on all of them. Sure their family had always been seen as odd - but wholesome odd. They got fame and $$$ and trips because of their enormous family size, but also curiosity about their overall lifestyle. At first the weird clothes and regimented rows had a freakish draw, but as they grew up and became lovely young women who may have only worn skirts- but were otherwise indistinguishable from any other teen/young adult in their modern modest attire — it was mostly good attention. They were “courting” and chaperoned — weird to the modern western mainstream outside world, but honestly, not unusual in many, many  cultures. And were beginning to find partners who overall seem like good matches. I’m sure they must have felt they were showing their parents and themselves as following the right path and teachings.   
 

But the molestations come out and their whole world crashes. It’s temporary, but they are seeing and hearing that - no, actually, it’s NOT ok that your creeper brother was creeping about, particularly while your parents are heavily invested in portraying you all as absolutely sheltered, and maybe Jesus camp and shunning and - presumably - beating the shit out of the offender weren’t the most appropriate responses. And locking your daughters away and extreme modesty as a reaction isn’t what most people would do. They most likely still mostly agreed with their parents version, but it would certainly start to put little doubts in your head —“ wait, why am I afraid of burning in hell if I wear pants- while my brother is forgiven? that doesn’t make sense” 

And they each find men who aren’t from ginormous families, so they aren’t just surrounded by so much peopling all day, every day. And can go, wait, what? I don’t HAVE  to have a bazillion children? I like children, I want children, but I don’t know that I want a dozen children. And my husband most definitely does NOT want a dozen children. And I can prevent that? Really? Ok. Cool. Let’s do that. And if that’s not going to send me to hell, and I’m noticing the sanity difference between Kids every 2-3 years , max and one every single year —- what else did my parents get wrong? I love them, but damn, there is a lot I’m going to do differently “ 

[Cam]

Oh wow, great article from Daily Kos. I may even share that on social media. I like how they really spelled out exactly how bad Michelle and JB were as parents. Only thing they seemed to leave out was how the older daughters parented the younger kids. 

Lori’s just pissed her Duggar fandom bubble was busted. She wanted to believe the fairytale. It always gets me when people think a person should remain quiet about abuses so as not to tarnish a religion’s image. Why would that be the priority, and not the lives of actual people? 

 

[zimona]

Very accurate: "Contrast from where one came from shouldn't be the only metric of freedom." I just hope Jinger doesn't stop at MacArthur's but keeps growing until she finds that the teachings of MacArthur are just as claustrophobic as the cult she grew up in.
I still vividly remember her testimony when she got baptized at MacArthur's church. There were a lot of empty (ie generic) phrases about having experienced true grace. But it was kept open, what Jinger's own experience with this 'true grace' has been. It felt like she was going through the motions because it was expected of her. After all, that's what she was trained to do from a very young age... Sad really.

[neuroticcat]

I thought Tia’s posts were 🔥

I just hope that the same tools that Jinger used to think through and escape Gothard will serve her well in Johnny Macs church. I think it’s pretty common for it to happen like that - it just seriously messes with peoples’ trust of their own intuition. Like: how did I fall for it AGAIN!

But sometimes we need stepping stones out. I grew up in a non-fundamentalist abusive family. So I left home to….dive in to hard complementarian thinking.  I eventually left it behind,  it it was part of the process. Thankfully, our bodies sometimes help us here. I imagine all the Duggar kids have some kind of PTSD that may insist they leave the harmful beliefs behind .

[Cam]

One thing I wonder is how many of the siblings will read Jinger’s book? More specifically, will a contraband copy of it make the rounds among the unmarried lost girls and Mac? Because I’m certain that JB would not allow them to openly read it while they live in his domain. Will the book influence any of the younger sisters in a way that they will also question (and renounce) the beliefs they’ve been conditioned since birth to believe? Will Michelle read the book? For some reason, I don’t see any of the brothers reading it. I think Anna will and the married sisters. At any rate, it’s possible one reason Jinj wrote it was to get her message to her younger siblings to questions what they’ve been taught. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Cam

[JMO]

Going back to the walmart comment, I remember that while Jill chided Jinger to find go with whatever the Lord gives you, they cut to asking Mich in a TH about it and she quickly down played it as Jinger just wanting to be nearer a Walmart.  

[Coconut Flan]

I hope some of the kids discovered Overdrive and Libby and have online library accounts so they can read the book on their phones with the parents none the wiser.  

[Cam]

Speaking of which, I wasn’t going to read Jinger’s book but finally decided to place a hold on it at the library where I get all my books, mostly in digital format. It currently has 250 holds, the book comes out Jan. 31. I think that’s a lot of holds which leads me to believe a few more people than the FJers are interested in what she has to say. It’ll be awhile before my name is at the top of that queue and I can decide later if I feel like it’d be worth my time. Sometimes I’ll just skim a book. We’ll see.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Tia Levings also went from IBLP to Calvinism and this is her take. And it’s how I see Jinger’s journey as well. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I see that Jinger is doing an interview with Allie Beth Stuckey today 🤮🤮🤮

[Father Son Holy Goat]

On 1/19/2023 at 3:53 AM, neuroticcat said:

The way she kind of sends a message to support Anna also seems to indicate they are not in touch. 
 

Also she reveals she’s pro college for her girls which is not what she had. 
 

I think her closure if indicating they want to be the same in public as they are at home is perhaps an interesting indictment on the Duggars. 
 

I think she sounded the most natural and “free” she’s ever been. I did not have a Duggar deconstructing on any bingo card ever, so I think it’s huge. She may stay in MacArthur land, but many full deconstruction stories begin thus way. Once you question the BS you keep going, even if it’s gradual fits and starts.

She also hints at getting professional help. It likely is Masters Seminary nouthetic coutselling but it’s also possible she saw a therapist. So many people who come out if these movements take several years to move from “that was off” to: I was abused. I have hope Jinger will get there. 

 

I noticed some mental health concepts like vulnerability and living in the present during her People video. She may have gotten some therapy, joined a support group, or read some self help books. 
 

On 1/24/2023 at 4:56 PM, neuroticcat said:

I thought Tia’s posts were 🔥

I just hope that the same tools that Jinger used to think through and escape Gothard will serve her well in Johnny Macs church. I think it’s pretty common for it to happen like that - it just seriously messes with peoples’ trust of their own intuition. Like: how did I fall for it AGAIN!

But sometimes we need stepping stones out. I grew up in a non-fundamentalist abusive family. So I left home to….dive in to hard complementarian thinking.  I eventually left it behind,  it it was part of the process. Thankfully, our bodies sometimes help us here. I imagine all the Duggar kids have some kind of PTSD that may insist they leave the harmful beliefs behind .

I agree about the stepping stones. I grew up in an abusive family, left and got into domestic violence, left, and have been in therapy for 8 years. I’m about halfway up the mountain, to use another poster’s metaphor. 

[neuroticcat]

So I am watching the Allie Beth Stuckey interview. Things I found interesting :

—this is the most natural and articulate I have ever seen Jinger. She seems relaxed and confident. Whether it’s maturity or therapy or freedom to speak - it’s noticeable.

—she mentions knowing Gothard personally

—she talks about the stolen diary shaking her trust in ppl

—she talks about the perspective of bring a kid on reality tv without really knowing what that meant which I found interesting

—she said the umbrella of authority made parents almost like priests where you confess every sin to them

—she said they did home church b:c there wasn’t a church that was right enough so the sermons were mostly gothard  videos. 

—she dedicated her book to all those hurt by Gothard & those hurt by spiritually abusive ppl

 

 

-/She describes struggling with an eating disorder and living by “feelings” which TBH sounds really like religious OCD. 

[neuroticcat]

—Theological talking points still full of Christianese and MacArthuresque saved language.  - she mentions that she hit out if cult mindset by reading the Bible and bring in a solid church that taught her 🤔hoping she is able to see the reality that before she was living hy reading the Bible plus what Gothard taught her. 🫠

—she explains the umbrella of authority and his unmarried women - even if they’re 40 - can’t leave home b/c they will be vulnerable to Satans attacks outside the umbrella of protection. She says that’s what she wholeheartedly believed and why she stated (assumed interp that Jana believes this too). 
—she left the  church she was raised in 2 weeks before she got married - references Jill and Dericks church as solid and reformed. Presumably that had influence in their getting out too. (I really don’t like Uber reformed teaching in general but the mega church version  would be a vast upgrade to the level of control she’s describing. 
 

—Jeremy grew up in a reformed home - his dad was a reformed pastor. This is interesting b/c it makes me wonder if he would have ended up at Masters Seminary regardless 

[neuroticcat]

—JB made Jeremy listen to 60+ hours of Gothard’s seminars before they got engaged. 😂

—She cites an example of Gothard’s reading Bible verse about “man does not live by bread alone” and then talking about needing more fiber and how everyone needed a specific bread mixer.  
—Sounds like Jeremy had some WTF is going on moments in the video viewing process. 

—Gothard says it would be better fit ppl to never hear his teaching than gif ppl to hear it and reject it. So ppl were afraid to leave b:c they thought God would punish them. Especially b/c Gothard taught a direct correlation about things: like if X bad thing happened, it was b:c you did Y.